I recently used oats in a golden ale and I don't know if I really pick up on any additional mouthfeel. I may or maynot use oats in my next NEIPA. I'm also intrigued by doing less WP hops and more of it in the dry hop.
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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stickyfinger
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Doesn't it seem like residual gravity points, carbonation and yeast choice have way more of an effect on mouthfeel than flaked adjuncts? I haven't used flaked adjuncts in an NEIPA for months.
Noob_Brewer
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I haven’t yet brewed a NEIPA without some oats and/or wheat yet but I noticed a nice improvement in mouthfeel when I raised mash temp to 154 instead of 152 and which raised by final gravity to 1.014. So I’m assuming that’s due to some residual sugars left
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
This one was 2-row, carafoam and carared. It was just as hazy as my NEIPAs with wheat/oats in the grist and similar mouthfeel. I still use oats and wheat a lot though and haven't decided what my favorite grain bill is yet for the style. Although I think I have determined that I find no difference between malted and flaked oats/wheat. I typically use malted.
ABV is another thing not yet mentioned that plays into mouthfeel. I don't think it's coincidence that so many of the NEIPAs clock in pretty high.
ABV is another thing not yet mentioned that plays into mouthfeel. I don't think it's coincidence that so many of the NEIPAs clock in pretty high.
Noob_Brewer
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stickyfinger
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R.A.I.D
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Are you sure the blowing away factor of the right comes from the yeast and not the hops? Strata hops are really impressive.
Dgallo
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Yeast has a huge impact on flavor and drinkability. I brewed the same beer back to back with simcoe and mosaic one time using Bry- 97 and the other was A24. Both beers were great but imo the a24 version was much better overall, with an elevated aroma vs. the Bry-97 version, which was perceived more bitter and the mouthfeel wasn’t as full and it was drier.
Some yeast even take over flavor profiles so you barely get the hop notes. Hornindal yeast under pitched and run hot will produce so much esters, no matter what hops you use, all beers taste extremely too similar
just did my first NEIPA. turned out fantastic.1.065, 89%MO, touch of flaked wheat and melanoiden. had wlp005 on hand. no oats. I use a carbing stone in the keg which give beers a nice soft texture. only used 2oz of Amarillo dry hop. could go higher next time.
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Watched an Instagram live video yesterday between Verdant Brewing & Basqueland who were doing a 'collab beer' together. Q&A was open and the guys were great at answering questions on hazy ipas. Here's what I got:
The video will still be up for another 5 hours or so if anyone want to watch it. Search for Basqueland in Instagram.
- OG for the DIPA was 17-18 Plato
- FG was 4-4.5 Plato
- Basqueland had 200ppm Chloride. No Sulfate whatsoever added and relying on what is already in their water ~ 6ppm!
- Ca kept to a low enough level so as not to effect fermentation
- London Fog for Basqueland (4-5 generations). 1318 originally for Verdant but its now their house version
- 3 day dry hop with a 20 second rouse on day 2
- Dry hop at fermentation temperatures of 18-22 deg C
- PH after fermentation of 4.1-4.2. 4.3-4.4 after dry hop
- DDH = double quantities and never in two separate dry hops
- Max dry hop = 25g/L before they thought there was diminishing returns
- Collab beer had a bittering charge (pellets) and then 4.5g/L in whirlpool. 22g/L dry hop
- Verdant whirlpooled at 85 deg C.
- 6-7 days of fermentation. 8-9 total including dry hop.
- 21 days brew to packaging for both breweries
The video will still be up for another 5 hours or so if anyone want to watch it. Search for Basqueland in Instagram.
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Thanks, man! 1318 is great in these beers.
So, when I was involved with the yeast experiment for brewtubers...Mine ended at 1.023.....everyone who reviewed it thought it was dry and crisp, however didn't pick up on the higher final gravity till they read the details on the bottle. I don't know if many people palates can pick up a 10 gravity point difference in the final product.
aaronm13
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Missed that unfortunately. I absolutely love Verdant, they make some phenomenal beers and are easily up there with Other Half. Some interesting stuff there. I really thought their Chloride would be higher as I saw a video before saying they use a stout profile for their water. This was a couple of years ago so probably has changed.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Just decant it. All starters are oxidized. You literally shake them or keep the on a stir plate for that reason to absorb o2
Cool, ill give it a go then!
isomerization
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The key here is that the yeast completes fermentation. Differences in final gravity that arise from the presence of unfermentables are much harder to detect than if it’s an attenuation issue.
stickyfinger
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Does anyone have a super amazing milkshake ipa recipe? I'd like to do one in the next month.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I do, I’ll PM you
Noob_Brewer
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just curious as I have been looking back over my recipes for these NEIPAs. I typically have done a 60minute battering charge (columbus or warrior) and then either a 10min or 5min boil with either the bittering hop or a combination of the main hops used in WP and dry hopping. Ive noticed that some don't do this and considering just skipping the 5-10min boil hop additions all together and just upping the 60min hop charge a little more to make up for the lost IBUs. So the question is: how many are using the 5-10min boil hop additions vs ditching it all together in favor of upping the 60min boil addition and WP additions a little? Thoughts
stickyfinger
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I don't even know what "the 5-10 min boil hop addition" is. do you mean what people used to do as a sort of pre-flameout addition right before cutting heat? seems analogous to the dumbest shot in basketball, just inside the 3-point line. ha ha in other words, i don't think most people do this at all any more. 60 minute if desired for bittering and then whirlpool for flavor. i like to drop the wort temp before adding the whirlpool hops so i can control bitterness a little better with just the 60-min. addition.
Noob_Brewer
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LOL nice analogy with basketball. But yes I was referring to a late boil addition at 5-10min left. Ive never done a flameout addition either because my chiller will take my wort from boiling down to 150 in about 2minutes. I like to get my wort to WP temps like you it seems. So for me Im not sure what the flameout addition would do other than getting all dunked up in my immersion chiller. Was just thinking of what a late boil or flameout addition is really adding besides some IBUs.
This is one of those things where Im saying to myself "what the heck is this addition for anyways?"
Sorry should have clarified - that was Basquelands water profile for the beer they were brewing. Verdant were on the call answering and asking questions and confirming if they had the same processes. I was really surprised they didn't add any Sulfate at all though.
And yet the brewery with the highest demand for ipa’s still uses a high % of kettle hops....
stickyfinger
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Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Treehouse refers to their whirlpool as kettle additions. All hot side hops they call kettle additions. I do agree they are using more hot side hops than most breweries are using now
skleice
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I like doing some very small additions at 60, 10 and flameout before dropping temps for a whirlpool. I feel like I get more of that hop saturation thang. I've been doing that for the last few brews and prefer it over just 60 + WP.
couchsending
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Has anyone ever had an amazing Milkshake IPA? Admittedly I’ve never had the Tired Hands versions but every other one I’ve had has been atrocious.
stickyfinger
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maybe. i made one with all of the other parameters except the fruit addition and i loved it, like 2 years ago. we'll see. i also wish i could try the tired hands ones. i'm guessing they would be really good. it is a beer for people with a sweet tooth like me though, lol. something tells me you're not a sweet tooth kind of guy.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Yes. Ingenious out of TX has some amazing milkshake style ipas. The best I’ve had from them was Double Peach Cobbler Fro Yo. Also a new brewery out of New York, Beer Tree puts out a Pineapple creamsicle series of a single, double, and triple milkshake ipa. The double is really good and the triples too much
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couchsending
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It’s funny I totally have a sweet tooth but I don’t really like sweet beer. Or at least beer that’s really heavy on the palate. I can handle thicker beers but as long as they’re not cloying. That’s not even the issue I’ve had with the “milkshake” IPAs I’ve had. They just al seem really poorly constructed. Everything seems out of place.
Do you have a reference to this? I thought Nate specifically said that wasn’t the case
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
If you’ve ever read through their beer descriptions on their page, they mention kettle additions and dryhopping, but never whirlpool addition even though you know they are whirlpooling. Here is their king jjjulius description
HopsAreGood
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I used to brew all of my iPas with only a small bittering charge, whirlpool and dry hops because that’s what the internet said was the way to go. The beers were always good but lacked something in the flavor department. I then came across some reliable people swearing by doing a pretty substantial addition at 10 minutes, tried it out, and have never looked backed. For my palette I feel there is a lot more flavor when I do this. I still shoot for a small bittering charge but add a 2-3 oz addition of flavor/aroma hops at 10. Whirlpool and dry hop only sounds cool but doesn’t translate in reality for me.
I’ve also played with layering additions at 20-15-10-5 etc...but can’t really tell a difference from just doing one at 10.
I also know of one local brewery that is extremely highly regarded, and they typically do 1 oz at 15, 1 oz at 5, 2 oz whirlpool, then 12-16 oz dry hop.
I’ve also played with layering additions at 20-15-10-5 etc...but can’t really tell a difference from just doing one at 10.
I also know of one local brewery that is extremely highly regarded, and they typically do 1 oz at 15, 1 oz at 5, 2 oz whirlpool, then 12-16 oz dry hop.
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stickyfinger
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i don't even know if i want to add any hops to the hot wort anymore. it's such a small impact compared with dry hops. i need to do another split batch and compare zero hop stand hops with 1 oz/gal hop stand hops and dry hops equal between the two. at this point i doubt i could tell the difference between them but that's what the test is for.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
huh, i really like thick beers that fill me up. maybe b/c i'm vegan so i don't get enough meat and fat in my diet. ha ha ha
I have, I have! What do I win? I live near TH and have had most of them. Some are amazing and some are meh. Every milkshake I have had from any other brewery has sucked beyond belief. I brewed 2 or 3 and my lychee milkshake was ridiculously awesome. They aren't easy to do (I do not claim to be any kind of milkshake expert).
Makes sense - good point. But this is what I was referring to:
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FWIW, Janish says late hop additions contribute significant eatery fruity and citrus flavors, beyond what you would get from dry hopping only. I don't think he addresses late vs whirlpool, but his conclusion was that if you're going for fruity, citrusy flavors, late additions can help you get there. As always, YMMV.
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