New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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Yeah, that was intriguing. They do not dry hop during fermentation. They only dry hop after fermentation and diacetyl rest is done. And they dry hop under pressure.
And Henry was super high on the Galaxy/Citra combo to get less harsh flavors.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
This attendees-eye view of a presentation about dry-hopping from the British division of Hopsteiner may be of interest : http://edsbeer.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/dry-hopping-and-visit-to-lupofresh.html
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
This attendees-eye view of a presentation about dry-hopping from the British division of Hopsteiner may be of interest : http://edsbeer.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/dry-hopping-and-visit-to-lupofresh.html
stickyfinger
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Dang! Mosher said 8 lbs/barrel! I've never added that much! 4 oz/gal by my estimate!
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Definitely interesting. Having had their beers they are definitely in the top handful of NEIPAs along side Triple Crossing, Aslin, Other Half, etc.. Might have to give that method a try.
KrunkMasterKyle
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That's interesting. Is there any insight to the pressure and temp he dry hops at?
stickyfinger
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wow, really?! I was going to ask. They seem like they weren't into most IPAs, but then they made some NEIPA style ones and are now famous. Has anyone had their beers? I guess that answers that question. I am wondering if even if you add the hops after fermentation is basically done if you still get biotransformation? The hop flavor seems so different between a beer that has been in contact with hops with yeast at room temp vs a beer that has hops in it at cold temps.
stickyfinger
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The Mosher interview was by far more interesting to me. I don't know how much of it is BS though. He said he is using like 50% flaked grains in his NEIPA-style beers. I could see it, but I haven't tried it. I've never really thought I could tell a difference b/w beers brewed with like 15% or less flaked grains vs just 2-row (maybe color), but I could see getting a lot of creaminess from 50% flaked wheat and 50% 2-row. Interested to try it out.
Yeh make no mistake, they are making some killer stuff. Post d-rest biotransformation can't be a thing. That being said, their beer have been some of the most hop-saturated things i've had.
milldoggy
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I agree, I fly out of lax every month, I stop at monkish every time now. I am blown away with their beers. Makes for a great red eye.
Desert_Sky
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duelerx
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I was really surprised when he talked about using oak during fermentation to get vanilla taste.
stickyfinger
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yeah, fascinating. i wonder if the character is different from just adding vanilla extract. don’t want any wood flavor for sure. wood can make beer super creamy though.
dukedevil0
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I believe he said 8lbs/bbl was the most they had done and that was for a Triple NEIPA. Thought he said usually they do 4-5lbs/bbl.
stickyfinger
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Has anyone ever tried adding some distilled hop oil to the fermenter at high krausen?
https://www.morebeer.com/products/distilled-hop-oil-el-dorado-1-ml.html
A friend bought one of the el dorado ones and added it directly to a keg. He said it made his beer taste very floral and perfumey. I'm guessing it is maybe the geraniol and other compounds that are usually biotransformed into linalool and other more tasty compounds by the yeast. If the yeast could work on those oils it might be a good way to add a huge amount of hop flavor without all of the vegetable matter or as a supplement to other pellet hops.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/distilled-hop-oil-el-dorado-1-ml.html
A friend bought one of the el dorado ones and added it directly to a keg. He said it made his beer taste very floral and perfumey. I'm guessing it is maybe the geraniol and other compounds that are usually biotransformed into linalool and other more tasty compounds by the yeast. If the yeast could work on those oils it might be a good way to add a huge amount of hop flavor without all of the vegetable matter or as a supplement to other pellet hops.
I had the chance to try White Oak Jai Alai a few weeks ago and was considering adding a spiral on my next batch. The oak addition is very subtle and I didn't pick up anything that I would consider "woody". I might soak it overnight in a complementary wine like pinot grigio as a sanitary precaution. Then just toss it in pre-fermentation.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Oak ageing can vary trenendously, but I've had some examples where it's like chewing on a pencil, all you get is wood. There's a bit of a fetish for cask beer being conditioned in wooden barrels here in the UK, although it's a pretty minor thing there is a festival dedicated to it and a pub that serves nothing but. In fact CAMRA was preceded by the Society for the Preservation of Beers from the Wood.
Getting vanilla flavours from oak ageing is well known in the wine and whisky worlds in fact the vanillin in artificial vanilla flavour is generally made from lignin, one of the main components of wood and that's also one of the sources of vanilla-flavour from oak ageing (along with cis-beta-methyl-gamma-octalactone). There's some interesting chemistry in there, not dissimilar to how the clove flavour of Belgian beers is made.
I'm not sure overnight in wine will do a lot of sanitising, but it won't hurt I guess.
Getting vanilla flavours from oak ageing is well known in the wine and whisky worlds in fact the vanillin in artificial vanilla flavour is generally made from lignin, one of the main components of wood and that's also one of the sources of vanilla-flavour from oak ageing (along with cis-beta-methyl-gamma-octalactone). There's some interesting chemistry in there, not dissimilar to how the clove flavour of Belgian beers is made.
I'm not sure overnight in wine will do a lot of sanitising, but it won't hurt I guess.
This is what I usually do with sours but if any microbes survived it, they wouldn't have much left to chew on in a sour. Maybe with a beer like this I should heat it in the oven instead? I'd just have to find the right temperature to kill the microbes without toasting the oak.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Spirits would be better, it would help extract some of the oak compounds as well, without boiling off any of the interesting ones. On the other hand, some toasting helps break down some of the lignin to form vanillin etc precursors, so if it's raw wood that's not eg come from a barrel then some heat may be beneficial.
Sounded like they maintain 15psi during the crashing period (requires topping off every so often). Not sure about during the dry hop. He didn't give specifics about the temp and pressure from what I recall. And the interviewer didn't ask.
A few other things he said:
He wasn't as big a fan of Mosaic and even had a theory that Mosaic is better when it's older.
They target a pre-fermentation pH of 5. I assume that means after boil, not during mash?
They let the beers rest awhile during/after crashing to drop out as much as possible. I wrote down 7 days after crashing.
He mentioned yeast astringency if you don't let it settle. Different from the hop burn we normally talk about on HBT.
Certain hops don't have enough oil and can lead to what he called "sharper" flavors (harsher, less pillowy, higher resin and pine). That's why he likes Galaxy and Citra.
They use an English ale but he didn't say specifically which one
3% acid malt
2-4% Crystal sometimes
I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?
I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?
I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?
My most recent process has been to keg at ~1.020, usually day 3. I open the top of keg and fill up my keg the "old school" way with a hose attached to my spigot. When the keg is full I seal the lid with a burst of CO2 and purge 5 times. I wrap the keg with my ferm heater and keep it around 70f for 10 days. Place in keezer and wait for an open tap.
My reasoning is that any oxygen picked up after transfer will be scavenged. I don't spund because with ~6 pts left I don't feel the need to have one.
Technically you are spunding, just not using a pressure release valve. I try not to use mine either however it comes in handy to avoid over carbonation if you rack to keg with too many points remaining
Day 3? I'm dry hopping on day 2-3. Are you dry hopping in the keg or what?
How do you guys handle the extra hop matter in the serving keg using this process?
I DH around 36 hrs or so b4 going into work. Hops are still in suspension, but some articles say that a good portion of hop extraction occurs within 24 hrs or so. I do get hops in the keg, but never had one completely clog a poppet that I cannot fix. I have thought about cutting the dip tube or installing a screen around it. I may put a filter in place when transferring. I had trouble once with foamy pours which had some hop material in the poppet. I tried reversing with gas on the out post, but wound up tearing it off clearing the blockage and poured a beer immediately.
I did closed transfers under pressure using a BMB. You do need to keep a hand in the lid, but 1-2 psi does work. Use a lid with two holes. Metal racking cane in one hole, with tubing attached to keg quick disconnect. In other hole, you put a hollow rubber bung. Stick a MFLto hose barb in the bung, and attach your C02 line to it. Voila.
So my previous setup might have worked if I put my hand on the lid of the BMB? I'll give that a try regardless if I spund.
I did it probably 8+ times. I did tend to combine the old white collars with the new rubber gaskets, which helped keep it more airtight, but mot perfect.
I soak my dry hops for 7 days with 6 ounces per 5 gallons. Trust me there is no reason to dry hop in the keg. The beer comes out cloudy, dank, juicy and delicious.
fragged
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I use them as well, mine are plastic and have spigots. I've shoved a 1/4 airhose down the center of the three piece air lock and flow 1psi. Then I open spigot which has a line attached that goes to the keg.
This worked pretty well, but I had to keep a hand on the lid.
Anymore, I just let air in while draining from the spigot to the keg. I brew a little extra and therefore leave a little extea in the BMB. My theory is this is my buffer beer for oxygen. I'm happy enough with the results, until I get a conical.
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Sorry for the late reply. Haven't been monitoring on these 14day work weeks. So the short answer is this....2day fermentation dry hop, purging CO2 during cold crash and during closed transfer/gravity to keg (PITA) none..nada...no diacetyl and coloring was good.
Did another batch with DH at day 2 as before but only kept a purge in the keg doing xferring to keg. Sure enough diacetyl.
I have to do the closed loop thing do get it to work. After the 60K in home improvements, then the pool and hot tub installed will relax with another attempt.
Hope that clearifies...closed loop transfers appear to be a must with high hopped beers. Any other style I don't have this problem.
I bought some Cryo hops and wanted to see what they would taste like in the keg. Is it necessary, probably not, but I liked the results.
https://www.hoptech.com/products/citrus-hop-oil-2-oz
I bought some of this and tried it in a glass of beer. It had a very strong chemical taste to it. Maybe "perfumey" is a good descriptor. It was not enjoyable. The instructions say to use it as a dry hop addition. I'm not sure I'd add this to an entire keg. I wonder if that El Dorado stuff is similar?
jpLV
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Wanted to thank Braufessor for the recipe. Brewed this for a buddies family party that was this weekend and it was a hit. Lots of compliments on the aroma. I definitely will try brewing it again using the suggested hops but the substitutions of simcoe and nugget turned out nice.
Oh I was just wondering since you mentioned hops clogging up the keg poppet. I've had that happen to me and ever since I avoid adding hops to my kegs.
My brew came out pretty good but I still like the original Brau’s recipe best. This one came out pretty sweet even though it fermented out to 1.010. I didn’t think it would go that low but the imperial yeast just chewed right through everything. I don’t care too much for my hop combination. It came out very juicy with strong peach, orange, pineapple, and mango aromas but I didn’t feel satisfied so I tossed in 2 oz. of experimental tangerine in the keg. I think that just made it a muddy mess. My wife likes it but it just tastes like sweet fruit juice to me. I might just be burned out on NEIPA.
cheesebach
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I'm sure you've probably given this some thought already, but figured I'd throw out a few ideas to consider:
Did you also cold crash the beer that had diacetyl, and if so, was it done under CO2 pressure? How long did you give each beer at fermentation temperature before cold crashing?
I'm curious to find out what is happening, since I've seen you mention this issue a few times and the possibility that closed transfer vs. pushing with co2 to a purged keg could be causing such a difference is something I'd probably never think of.
I've done it both ways myself - I usually favor keg-to-keg closed transfer and spunding at the end of fermentation, but I use my Speidel fermenter when I want to make sure I get a full 5 gallons of beer for a party or something. In both cases, I try to cold crash around day 10-12 (under CO2 with the Speidel, if I'm using a keg, it's already pressurized from fermentation so I just disconnect the spunding valve and leave it sealed until transfer). I haven't noticed much difference either way, other than the keg-to-keg closed transfer beer is carbonated and ready to drink a couple days sooner since it's taken care of during fermentation.
stickyfinger
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i’m pretty sure my diacetyl issues were from cold crashing. hard to keep air out with carboys.
Here is mine that I just brewed ~24 hours ago. It’s only my second brew, ever and my first NEIPA. So far it’s bubbling away nicely.
As a new brewer, I was definitely expecting a more rigorous fermentation after reading all 160+ pages on this thread. I’m using 1318.
I’m planning on dry hopping during active fermentation. So, I’m thinking in the morning so at around 36 hours post pitch. Does that sound about right?
Looking forward to how this one will turn out!
