New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Genuine]

I listened to this one last night which also is very interesting

 

[hezagenius]

Great interview with Henry from Monkish to be found here, with the first half talking a lot about the processes he uses for creating his ipas.
It's mainly interesting because the high Cl-SO4 ratio and the dry-hopping during fermentation don't seem to be that important as we all think.
Also nice to hear that his NEIPAs take 30 days from brewing before they are released in cans, mainly because of stability reasons it seems.

Yeah, that was intriguing. They do not dry hop during fermentation. They only dry hop after fermentation and diacetyl rest is done. And they dry hop under pressure.

And Henry was super high on the Galaxy/Citra combo to get less harsh flavors.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

This attendees-eye view of a presentation about dry-hopping from the British division of Hopsteiner may be of interest : http://edsbeer.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/dry-hopping-and-visit-to-lupofresh.html

 

[Northern_Brewer]

This attendees-eye view of a presentation about dry-hopping from the British division of Hopsteiner may be of interest : http://edsbeer.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/dry-hopping-and-visit-to-lupofresh.html

 

[stickyfinger]

Dang! Mosher said 8 lbs/barrel! I've never added that much! 4 oz/gal by my estimate!

 

[degivens]

Yeah, that was intriguing. They do not dry hop during fermentation. They only dry hop after fermentation and diacetyl rest is done. And they dry hop under pressure.

And Henry was super high on the Galaxy/Citra combo to get less harsh flavors.

Definitely interesting. Having had their beers they are definitely in the top handful of NEIPAs along side Triple Crossing, Aslin, Other Half, etc.. Might have to give that method a try.

 

[KrunkMasterKyle]

Yeah, that was intriguing. They do not dry hop during fermentation. They only dry hop after fermentation and diacetyl rest is done. And they dry hop under pressure.

And Henry was super high on the Galaxy/Citra combo to get less harsh flavors.

That's interesting. Is there any insight to the pressure and temp he dry hops at?

 

[stickyfinger]

Definitely interesting. Having had their beers they are definitely in the top handful of NEIPAs along side Triple Crossing, Aslin, Other Half, etc.. Might have to give that method a try.

wow, really?! I was going to ask. They seem like they weren't into most IPAs, but then they made some NEIPA style ones and are now famous. Has anyone had their beers? I guess that answers that question. I am wondering if even if you add the hops after fermentation is basically done if you still get biotransformation? The hop flavor seems so different between a beer that has been in contact with hops with yeast at room temp vs a beer that has hops in it at cold temps.

 

[stickyfinger]

The Mosher interview was by far more interesting to me. I don't know how much of it is BS though. He said he is using like 50% flaked grains in his NEIPA-style beers. I could see it, but I haven't tried it. I've never really thought I could tell a difference b/w beers brewed with like 15% or less flaked grains vs just 2-row (maybe color), but I could see getting a lot of creaminess from 50% flaked wheat and 50% 2-row. Interested to try it out.

 

[degivens]

wow, really?! I was going to ask. They seem like they weren't into most IPAs, but then they made some NEIPA style ones and are now famous. Has anyone had their beers? I guess that answers that question. I am wondering if even if you add the hops after fermentation is basically done if you still get biotransformation? The hop flavor seems so different between a beer that has been in contact with hops with yeast at room temp vs a beer that has hops in it at cold temps.

Yeh make no mistake, they are making some killer stuff. Post d-rest biotransformation can't be a thing. That being said, their beer have been some of the most hop-saturated things i've had.

 

[milldoggy]

Definitely interesting. Having had their beers they are definitely in the top handful of NEIPAs along side Triple Crossing, Aslin, Other Half, etc.. Might have to give that method a try.

I agree, I fly out of lax every month, I stop at monkish every time now. I am blown away with their beers. Makes for a great red eye.

 

[Desert_Sky]

...

 

[duelerx]

The Mosher interview was by far more interesting to me. I don't know how much of it is BS though. He said he is using like 50% flaked grains in his NEIPA-style beers. I could see it, but I haven't tried it. I've never really thought I could tell a difference b/w beers brewed with like 15% or less flaked grains vs just 2-row (maybe color), but I could see getting a lot of creaminess from 50% flaked wheat and 50% 2-row. Interested to try it out.

I was really surprised when he talked about using oak during fermentation to get vanilla taste.

 

[stickyfinger]

I was really surprised when he talked about using oak during fermentation to get vanilla taste.

yeah, fascinating. i wonder if the character is different from just adding vanilla extract. don’t want any wood flavor for sure. wood can make beer super creamy though.

 

[dukedevil0]

Dang! Mosher said 8 lbs/barrel! I've never added that much! 4 oz/gal by my estimate!

I believe he said 8lbs/bbl was the most they had done and that was for a Triple NEIPA. Thought he said usually they do 4-5lbs/bbl.

 

[stickyfinger]

Has anyone ever tried adding some distilled hop oil to the fermenter at high krausen?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/distilled-hop-oil-el-dorado-1-ml.html

A friend bought one of the el dorado ones and added it directly to a keg. He said it made his beer taste very floral and perfumey. I'm guessing it is maybe the geraniol and other compounds that are usually biotransformed into linalool and other more tasty compounds by the yeast. If the yeast could work on those oils it might be a good way to add a huge amount of hop flavor without all of the vegetable matter or as a supplement to other pellet hops.

 

[TimmyWit]

yeah, fascinating. i wonder if the character is different from just adding vanilla extract. don’t want any wood flavor for sure. wood can make beer super creamy though.

I had the chance to try White Oak Jai Alai a few weeks ago and was considering adding a spiral on my next batch. The oak addition is very subtle and I didn't pick up anything that I would consider "woody". I might soak it overnight in a complementary wine like pinot grigio as a sanitary precaution. Then just toss it in pre-fermentation.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Oak ageing can vary trenendously, but I've had some examples where it's like chewing on a pencil, all you get is wood. There's a bit of a fetish for cask beer being conditioned in wooden barrels here in the UK, although it's a pretty minor thing there is a festival dedicated to it and a pub that serves nothing but. In fact CAMRA was preceded by the Society for the Preservation of Beers from the Wood.

Getting vanilla flavours from oak ageing is well known in the wine and whisky worlds in fact the vanillin in artificial vanilla flavour is generally made from lignin, one of the main components of wood and that's also one of the sources of vanilla-flavour from oak ageing (along with cis-beta-methyl-gamma-octalactone). There's some interesting chemistry in there, not dissimilar to how the clove flavour of Belgian beers is made.

I'm not sure overnight in wine will do a lot of sanitising, but it won't hurt I guess.

 

[TimmyWit]

I'm not sure overnight in wine will do a lot of sanitising, but it won't hurt I guess.

This is what I usually do with sours but if any microbes survived it, they wouldn't have much left to chew on in a sour. Maybe with a beer like this I should heat it in the oven instead? I'd just have to find the right temperature to kill the microbes without toasting the oak.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Spirits would be better, it would help extract some of the oak compounds as well, without boiling off any of the interesting ones. On the other hand, some toasting helps break down some of the lignin to form vanillin etc precursors, so if it's raw wood that's not eg come from a barrel then some heat may be beneficial.

 

[hezagenius]

That's interesting. Is there any insight to the pressure and temp he dry hops at?

Sounded like they maintain 15psi during the crashing period (requires topping off every so often). Not sure about during the dry hop. He didn't give specifics about the temp and pressure from what I recall. And the interviewer didn't ask.

A few other things he said:
He wasn't as big a fan of Mosaic and even had a theory that Mosaic is better when it's older.
They target a pre-fermentation pH of 5. I assume that means after boil, not during mash?
They let the beers rest awhile during/after crashing to drop out as much as possible. I wrote down 7 days after crashing.
He mentioned yeast astringency if you don't let it settle. Different from the hop burn we normally talk about on HBT.
Certain hops don't have enough oil and can lead to what he called "sharper" flavors (harsher, less pillowy, higher resin and pine). That's why he likes Galaxy and Citra.
They use an English ale but he didn't say specifically which one
3% acid malt
2-4% Crystal sometimes

 

[Whalewang]

I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?

I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?

 

[Sbe2]

I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?

I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?

My most recent process has been to keg at ~1.020, usually day 3. I open the top of keg and fill up my keg the "old school" way with a hose attached to my spigot. When the keg is full I seal the lid with a burst of CO2 and purge 5 times. I wrap the keg with my ferm heater and keep it around 70f for 10 days. Place in keezer and wait for an open tap.

My reasoning is that any oxygen picked up after transfer will be scavenged. I don't spund because with ~6 pts left I don't feel the need to have one.

 

[Hannabrew]

Technically you are spunding, just not using a pressure release valve. I try not to use mine either however it comes in handy to avoid over carbonation if you rack to keg with too many points remaining

 

[Whalewang]

My most recent process has been to keg at ~1.020, usually day 3. I open the top of keg and fill up my keg the "old school" way with a hose attached to my spigot. When the keg is full I seal the lid with a burst of CO2 and purge 5 times. I wrap the keg with my ferm heater and keep it around 70f for 10 days. Place in keezer and wait for an open tap.

My reasoning is that any oxygen picked up after transfer will be scavenged. I don't spund because with ~6 pts left I don't feel the need to have one.

Day 3? I'm dry hopping on day 2-3. Are you dry hopping in the keg or what?

How do you guys handle the extra hop matter in the serving keg using this process?

 

[Sbe2]

I DH around 36 hrs or so b4 going into work. Hops are still in suspension, but some articles say that a good portion of hop extraction occurs within 24 hrs or so. I do get hops in the keg, but never had one completely clog a poppet that I cannot fix. I have thought about cutting the dip tube or installing a screen around it. I may put a filter in place when transferring. I had trouble once with foamy pours which had some hop material in the poppet. I tried reversing with gas on the out post, but wound up tearing it off clearing the blockage and poured a beer immediately.

 

[chieftain]

I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?

I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?

I did closed transfers under pressure using a BMB. You do need to keep a hand in the lid, but 1-2 psi does work. Use a lid with two holes. Metal racking cane in one hole, with tubing attached to keg quick disconnect. In other hole, you put a hollow rubber bung. Stick a MFLto hose barb in the bung, and attach your C02 line to it. Voila.

 

[Whalewang]

I did closed transfers under pressure using a BMB. You do need to keep a hand in the lid, but 1-2 psi does work. Use a lid with two holes. Metal racking cane in one hole, with tubing attached to keg quick disconnect. In other hole, you put a hollow rubber bung. Stick a MFLto hose barb in the bung, and attach your C02 line to it. Voila.

So my previous setup might have worked if I put my hand on the lid of the BMB? I'll give that a try regardless if I spund.

 

[chieftain]

So my previous setup might have worked if I put my hand on the lid of the BMB? I'll give that a try regardless if I spund.

I did it probably 8+ times. I did tend to combine the old white collars with the new rubber gaskets, which helped keep it more airtight, but mot perfect.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I had trouble once with foamy pours which had some hop material in the poppet. I tried reversing with gas on the out post, but wound up tearing it off clearing the blockage and poured a beer immediately.

I soak my dry hops for 7 days with 6 ounces per 5 gallons. Trust me there is no reason to dry hop in the keg. The beer comes out cloudy, dank, juicy and delicious.