Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer None More Black Vanilla Stout

[m00ps]

I think that looks great. But are you really going to add like 0.62oz of a hop? I just usually do my additions in increments of 1/2oz but that's just me being lazy.

If you want a bit more out of the vanilla, you could boil it in a bit of water for 2 or 3 min and dump the mixture in when cooled. The heat really extracts that aroma and flavor.

 

[A2HB]

Planning on doing the all grain version of this recipe this weekend. Does anyone know by chance how to scale down from 5 gal to 3 gal? Thanks!

 

[Beer-lord]

I think that looks great. But are you really going to add like 0.62oz of a hop? I just usually do my additions in increments of 1/2oz but that's just me being lazy.

If you want a bit more out of the vanilla, you could boil it in a bit of water for 2 or 3 min and dump the mixture in when cooled. The heat really extracts that aroma and flavor.

Well, I did say that my odd sizes were due to scaling to 6 gallons and that I round up but I also have an awesome scale that's pretty accurate though even I'm not OCD enough to worry about it.
I like your idea about boiling the vanilla a bit and may just do that...thanks!

 

[Adirondack47]

Yeah I agree with the guy above. You should add like 1/2lb of crystal 40 or 80 instead of the 2row and maybe cut out another lb or so. You've only got 9% speciality malts there whereas most stouts I see have 15-20%. I would add the crystal, up the chocolate another 4-8oz and reduce the 2row so you end up in that 15-20% region.

For mashing, I mash all my stouts at 154 for a fuller body. Unless I'm using lactose, which ups the FG enough by itself. I've seen higher than that, but I personally wouldnt ever go higher than like 155. Itd be like chewy...

Thanks for the recommendations!

I cut the 2 row down to 12.5lbs, upped the chocolate malt to a full pound and added a half pound of C80 resulting in just about 15% specialty malt.

Expectedly, my OG and Est. ABV have dropped, would I encounter any problems adding maybe a half pound of table sugar late in the boil to get some of that back?

 

[m00ps]

Thanks for the recommendations!

I cut the 2 row down to 12.5lbs, upped the chocolate malt to a full pound and added a half pound of C80 resulting in just about 15% specialty malt.

Expectedly, my OG and Est. ABV have dropped, would I encounter any problems adding maybe a half pound of table sugar late in the boil to get some of that back?

No, adding sugar is very common. I add sugar to all my iPas and Belgians to dry them out. It'll work fine but That may not be what you want for a stout. Maybe jut add a half lb of 2row?

 

[Judkinst]

Any thoughts on priming this recipe with 4oz of maple syrup? More specifically bourbon barrel aged maple syrup (http://woodssyrup.com). Just brewed it this weekend and had some vanilla infused maple a while back and thought it was a great combo. I've never primed with it before so I wasnt sure how much flavor it would actually impart. Thanks!

 

[johnsnownw]

Any thoughts on priming this recipe with 4oz of maple syrup? More specifically bourbon barrel aged maple syrup (http://woodssyrup.com). Just brewed it this weekend and had some vanilla infused maple a while back and thought it was a great combo. I've never primed with it before so I wasnt sure how much flavor it would actually impart. Thanks!

Priming with maple syrup won't add any perceptible maple flavor...it's simply not enough to impart anything when it will completely ferment out. Now, I can't speak to the bourbon aspect of it, but it would be easier to just add bourbon at bottling...or secondary.

The other issue with maple syrup is that you don't know the sugar content, and could easily under/over-carb. When I used maple syrup for priming, it was with cider, and I stopped carbonation (when I was happy with it) by throwing all the bottles in the fridge...and leaving them there until I drank them. FWIW, I never got the desired maple flavor with priming cider either, even though I stopped the fermentation before it completely fermented out.

 

[m00ps]

Priming with maple syrup won't add any perceptible maple flavor...it's simply not enough to impart anything when it will completely ferment out. Now, I can't speak to the bourbon aspect of it, but it would be easier to just add bourbon at bottling...or secondary.

The other issue with maple syrup is that you don't know the sugar content, and could easily under/over-carb. When I used maple syrup for priming, it was with cider, and I stopped carbonation (when I was happy with it) by throwing all the bottles in the fridge...and leaving them there until I drank them. FWIW, I never got the desired maple flavor with priming cider either, even though I stopped the fermentation before it completely fermented out.

Maple syrup does not ferment entirely out. Corn sugar or cane sugar, which does basically entirely ferment out, is around 46 ppg per pound. Honey and Maple syrup can considerably vary around 30-35 ppg. While 4oz maple Syrup may not be enough to give a good maple flavor to 5gals, you can get Maple flavor from adding it to beer. I have made a breakfast stout twice with 1lb Maple Syrup and it works great. Even under all the assertive stout roast character, you can still taste maple

 

[johnsnownw]

Maple syrup does not ferment entirely out. Corn sugar or cane sugar, which does basically entirely ferment out, is around 46 ppg per pound. Honey and Maple syrup can considerably vary around 30-35 ppg. While 4oz maple Syrup may not be enough to give a good maple flavor to 5gals, you can get Maple flavor from adding it to beer. I have made a breakfast stout twice with 1lb Maple Syrup and it works great. Even under all the assertive stout roast character, you can still taste maple

While it's true that it won't completely ferment out...it will ferment out enough with a priming addition that it will not actually be perceptible, adding a lb or more to the boil is a different matter.

As I said, my personal experience with maple syrup has been that it won't add anything to the profile with the amount used for priming.

As an addition, here is some info from BYO:

Maple Syrup
Maple sap typically contains about 2% sucrose. Maple syrup is standardized at a minimum of 66° Brix, and is typically 95% sucrose or more. Grade B syrup can contain 6% invert sugar, while Grade A Light Amber will contain less than 1%. You will get more maple flavor from the Grade B syrup. The characteristic maple flavors tend to be lost during primary fermentation, so adding the syrup after primary fermentation is over is recommended to retain as much flavor as possible. This practice will also help the beer to ferment more completely because it will not trigger the maltose inhibition discussed earlier. For a noticeable maple flavor, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of Grade B syrup is recommended per 5-gallon (19-L) batch of beer.

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1441-sweetness-brewing-sugars-how-to-use-them

 

[johnsnownw]

Any thoughts on priming this recipe with 4oz of maple syrup? More specifically bourbon barrel aged maple syrup (http://woodssyrup.com). Just brewed it this weekend and had some vanilla infused maple a while back and thought it was a great combo. I've never primed with it before so I wasnt sure how much flavor it would actually impart. Thanks!

Here's another way of looking at your addition. The interwebs tells me that maple syrup is about 65-70% ferment-able. This would mean you have about 35% of the maple syrup left over after the yeasties do their thing.

So, here's an experiment...which is not perfect, but you have to start somewhere. If we crunch some numbers, that means about 1.4 oz of the 4 oz of maple syrup will be left after bottle conditioning. This equates to about 1/2 Tbsp per gallon of beer.

Now for the experiment. Take 1/2 Tbsp of Grade B syrup and add that to a gallon of water. That will give you an idea of the flavor contribution...if the only other flavor was water. Now, it's not a perfect experiment because it would be likely that you would have a fainter maple profile due to the fermentation processes going on...but if you don't notice the maple in the gallon of water...you definitely aren't going to notice it in a roast-y stout.

 

[mdbrewer1]

Maple syrup does not ferment entirely out. Corn sugar or cane sugar, which does basically entirely ferment out, is around 46 ppg per pound. Honey and Maple syrup can considerably vary around 30-35 ppg. While 4oz maple Syrup may not be enough to give a good maple flavor to 5gals, you can get Maple flavor from adding it to beer. I have made a breakfast stout twice with 1lb Maple Syrup and it works great. Even under all the assertive stout roast character, you can still taste maple

Which grade syrup did you use? When did you add it?

My next brew is going to be a maple pecan porter and my current plan is to add 1 lb of syrup at flameout. I currently have whatever grade Costco sells, but based on one of the posts above, it sounds like it might be worth it to seek out some Grade B if that isn't what the Costco (Kirland) brand is.

 

[johnsnownw]

I currently have whatever grade Costco sells, but based on one of the posts above, it sounds like it might be worth it to seek out some Grade B if that isn't what the Costco (Kirland) brand is.

The Kirkland is Grade A.

 

[mdbrewer1]

The Kirkland is Grade A.

Thanks. A quick google showed me the same thing and that people are reselling it on Amazon!

Do you think it would be a good choice or should I seek out some Grade B?

 

[johnsnownw]

Thanks. A quick google showed me the same thing and that people are reselling it on Amazon!

Do you think it would be a good choice or should I seek out some Grade B?

I have only ever used maple syrup in priming experiments, even though I did use the Kirkland once because it was hella cheap comparatively. So, I don't think I'm the best judge for the beer you're trying to produce.

That said, everything I've read says to use Grade B, and if I were going to put the time and effort into brewing a beer where I wanted to try and get some maple flavor...I'd go with what others consider the best.

 

[mdbrewer1]

I have only ever used maple syrup in priming experiments, even though I did use the Kirkland once, because it was hella cheap comparatively. So, I don't think I'm the best judge for the beer you're trying to produce.

That said, everything I've read says to use Grade B, and if I were going to put the time and effort into brewing a beer where I wanted to try and get some maple flavor...I'd go with what others consider the best.

That's the way I was leaning after doing some more reading. Thanks for talking through it with me. Now I need to find a source for good Grade B syrup.

 

[johnsnownw]

That's the way I was leaning after doing some more reading. Thanks for talking through it with me. Now I need to find a source for good Grade B syrup.

This may be the best I've found:

http://www.vermonttradewinds.com/product/MSJ-HG

They seem to have changed the grade scale. Anyway, if you get 2 half-gallon jugs it seems they offer free shipping. So, I'd get the "Very Dark," which seems to be what used to be labeled Grade B. It's $74...and while that seems to be a lot...it's one of the cheaper places I've seen offering legit Grade B...and free shipping.

 

[m00ps]

Which grade syrup did you use? When did you add it?

My next brew is going to be a maple pecan porter and my current plan is to add 1 lb of syrup at flameout. I currently have whatever grade Costco sells, but based on one of the posts above, it sounds like it might be worth it to seek out some Grade B if that isn't what the Costco (Kirland) brand is.

I didn't do an extensive search at multiple stores, but I could only find "grade A." I've heard grade B may actually be better for cooking and brewing since it's less pure, but I've always just used grade A and its worked OK.

A tip: add the syrup into the fermentor after high krausen instead of at flameout or late boil. It'll ensure you save the most aromatics you can for the final flavor profile.

 

[mdbrewer1]

I didn't do an extensive search at multiple stores, but I could only find "grade A." I've heard grade B may actually be better for cooking and brewing since it's less pure, but I've always just used grade A and its worked OK.

A tip: add the syrup into the fermentor after high krausen instead of at flameout or late boil. It'll ensure you save the most aromatics you can for the final flavor profile.

Thanks for the tip. I ferment in plastic buckets. Any ideas on how to best determine when high krausen is?

I'll be opening a brand new bottle of syrup, so I won't have to worry about contamination. Would it be a concern if I were using an open container, or is there enough activity from all the good yeast to keep all the potential bad actors at bay?

 

[m00ps]

Thanks for the tip. I ferment in plastic buckets. Any ideas on how to best determine when high krausen is?

I'll be opening a brand new bottle of syrup, so I won't have to worry about contamination. Would it be a concern if I were using an open container, or is there enough activity from all the good yeast to keep all the potential bad actors at bay?

Hmm... I think you'd be OK with a container thats only been open once or twice and isnt too old. I've used an open honey container before and was OK. You be the judge, if its pretty fresh and no crusty crap along the cap Id say go for it.

For checking for krausen in the buckets, I usually try to shine a high power LED flashlight into the bucket from resting it on top. If I dim the room lights a bit, I can usually see the fluid level and any krausen. Otherwise, I'd just do like 2 days after airlock activity starts. You really could do anytime in fermentation, Ive just heard the yeast are most active at high krausen

 

[mdbrewer1]

Hmm... I think you'd be OK with a container thats only been open once or twice and isnt too old. I've used an open honey container before and was OK. You be the judge, if its pretty fresh and no crusty crap along the cap Id say go for it.

For checking for krausen in the buckets, I usually try to shine a high power LED flashlight into the bucket from resting it on top. If I dim the room lights a bit, I can usually see the fluid level and any krausen. Otherwise, I'd just do like 2 days after airlock activity starts. You really could do anytime in fermentation, Ive just heard the yeast are most active at high krausen

I moved up some travel plans and I'll be leaving town two days after brewing, so I'll toss the syrup in right before I leave. That makes that decision pretty easy. I'll keep the flashlight method in mind since I'm guessing that it will come in handy at some point in the future.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Beer-lord]

I brewed this up today....the all grain recipe on page 2. Wow, was this wort thick! I'm not sure what to expect. I felt the flaked barley was alot and not nearly enough roasted barley but I'll just wait and see.
I guess I was expecting more of a roasty flavor even with the small amount of dark malts but I'm sure this was made to accent the vanilla.
After tasting the wort sample going into the fermenter, I can see that there's plenty of room for the vanilla to come through.
So, it's a Vanilla stout instead of a stout WITH vanilla I guess. We'll know in over a month or so.

 

[RhodySeth]

17 days in primary. FG at 1.012. kegged and added 3 tablespoons of pure vanilla extract. Can't wait to try it!

 

[CJ-3]

I made this 6 weeks ago - the extract version. Just tried one last night. The vanilla comes off strong ( 8 ounces of home made extract at botteling of 5 gallons) but I am sure it will mellow. All in all it is the best beer I have brewed! Thanks for posting the recipe!

 

[Hulud]

i completely forgot about this beer as i brewed it back in 2011. Has anyone tried to add lactose and make this more of a dessert beer? (sorry i cant read through all these pages if this has been done)

 

[Beer-lord]

Just added the vanilla yesterday and took a sample. Damn, it seems stuck at 1.030 but doesn't taste sweet. Beersmith says it should get to 1.021 so I'm pretty far off IMO. In fact, it tastes like a weak Porter and isn't very 'stouty' to me. I would like less flaked barely and more roastiness but I guess its to allow the vanillla to come thru.
If it doesn't move below 1.030 by the weekend I'll just keg it and let it sit a month. I've never used 004 before but I've heard of others talk about it's lack of attenuation but I also wonder if a mash of 156 is partly to blame.
However, I'm all for following a recipe as given the first time before I critique or change it so I'm letting this be.

 

[Zsmith31]

Hoping for some feedback here:

Brewed this recipe, even made a yeast starter with the White Labs Irish Ale Yeast. About two weeks in I added a mixture of vanilla beans and bourbon (that had been sitting together for 2 weeks). I used a little extra bourbon in the process to get the rest of the vanilla beans out of the jar, but figured that wouldn't matter. FG after 3.5 weeks reads 1.020. New to homebrewing so not quite sure why it's so high? Fermenting Temperature?

 

[johnsnownw]

Hoping for some feedback here:

Brewed this recipe, even made a yeast starter with the White Labs Irish Ale Yeast. About two weeks in I added a mixture of vanilla beans and bourbon (that had been sitting together for 2 weeks). I used a little extra bourbon in the process to get the rest of the vanilla beans out of the jar, but figured that wouldn't matter. FG after 3.5 weeks reads 1.020. New to homebrewing so not quite sure why it's so high? Fermenting Temperature?

A couple things. It's difficult to determine if it's high, without knowing your OG. Also, what are you using to take your FG measurement?

 

[Zsmith31]

A couple things. It's difficult to determine if it's high, without knowing your OG. Also, what are you using to take your FG measurement?

Forgot to mention I did know my OG at 1.053, so I was happy with that. I used a hydrometer to measure both OG and FG.

 

[johnsnownw]

Forgot to mention I did know my OG at 1.053, so I was happy with that. I used a hydrometer to measure both OG and FG.

I can't really answer why your beer stalled out around 1.020...without knowing your recipe or procedure. Did you brew the extract recipe as-is?

Just a reminder though, when taking a gravity reading you need to make sure to de-gas your sample...because the carbonation can affect the reading.

Also, what was your yeast starter procedure?

 

[Zsmith31]

I can't really answer why your beer stalled out around 1.020...without knowing your recipe or procedure. Did you brew the extract recipe as-is?

Just a reminder though, when taking a gravity reading you need to make sure to de-gas your sample...because the carbonation can affect the reading.

Also, what was your yeast starter procedure?

I did brew the extract recipe exactly as is.

I did the reading pre bottling - so de-gassing wasn't the issue.

This was actually my first yeast starter, active fermentation was great. I live in Boston in an apartment so I don't have enough space to control temperature but I know it's been consistently at 64-66 degrees.

 

[johnsnownw]

I did brew the extract recipe exactly as is.

I did the reading pre bottling - so de-gassing wasn't the issue.

This was actually my first yeast starter, active fermentation was great. I live in Boston in an apartment so I don't have enough space to control temperature but I know it's been consistently at 64-66 degrees.

There is C02 in suspension, after primary and secondary. It's why you have to de-gas wine prior to bottling. So, that could have been a factor.

As to the starter, it depends on your procedure. If you pitched an older vial of yeast, and the starter hadn't propagated enough yeast, you would have under-pitched. This can cause the beer not to fully attenuate. Yeast health is difficult to determine if you're using air-lock activity as an indication. I'm not saying you didn't have healthy yeast, but if your measurement was correct, then something is causing the lower than expected attenuation.

If it was an ambient temperature in the room of 64-66, then the temperature of the wort could have risen by a factor of 5-7 degrees. This is because the yeast are exothermic. Though, generally warmer temperatures, if not too warm, aid in attenuation. So I do not believe the temperature was a factor here...unless you pitched the yeast warm or something.

Now, something you need to pay attention to. If your measurement was correct, and the yeast stalled, there is the possibility that during priming the yeast will continue where they left off. That is, they may eat all the priming sugar, and then move on to the sugars it didn't finish before. This could create an over-carb issue, and possibly lead to bottle bombs. I would suggest putting those bottles into a rubber/plastic tote, in case this does happen. You do not want to clean up a bunch of beer off the floor. Make sure to be careful when opening as well.

 

[Beer-lord]

Kegged this today. Still sitting at 1.030 even though I tried everything but adding more yeast to bring it down. Good news....under 5%. Bad news...tasted thin. Not sure why.
I added more vanilla in a bag in the keg because the vanilla was weak. Gonna let that sit a few weeks. I naturally carbed this since I don't have room in the kegerator for a few weeks.
I was really hoping for a roastier beer. Too early to complain.

 

[CJ-3]

i completely forgot about this beer as i brewed it back in 2011. Has anyone tried to add lactose and make this more of a dessert beer? (sorry i cant read through all these pages if this has been done)

I added a pound of lactose - half at flameout and half at bottling. It has a great mouthfeel to it but it is definitely not overly sweet because of it. I don't know if that answers your question about being a desert beer or not, but it is what I have noticed.

 

[Hulud]

I added a pound of lactose - half at flameout and half at bottling. It has a great mouthfeel to it but it is definitely not overly sweet because of it. I don't know if that answers your question about being a desert beer or not, but it is what I have noticed.

thanks! gave me an idea of what a pound would do to it.

 

[RhodySeth]

Had a party last night and everyone really enjoyed the vanilla stout. Thanks for this great recipe!

 

[mdbrewer1]

I try to save one beer from each batch to open at the 6-month mark and another to save at the 12-month, and I just opened the 6-month old version of this brew last week. The roastiness/smokiness had completely taken over, to the point that I couldn't finish it. It was great the first couple months, but aging it turned it into a completely different beer. I'm very curious how the last bottle will taste in another 6 months. I'm not imagining I'll care for it.

Anyone else have it last that long and have something similar happen? It was always right on the edge for roastiness for me, and perhaps with the vanilla fading, it put it over the top.

 

[whitenhiemer]

this looks like a tasty beverage, I'd love to make this as a 1 gallon condo size batch. Do you think i can just shrink down the recipe without making a bid difference?

 

[stever1000]

This is my first time brewing, and I have this on the stove top at the moment.

I used more LME than the recipe called for (<=8lbs vs 7.25lbs) because I didn't want a small amount of LME sitting around (it came in a 8lb pail, but I didn't get every oz out)

How much will this effect the brew overall?

Also, my two closets are about 65* or 73-74* which would be better for fermenting this batch? I noticed it said 70, but I can't get it to that easily

Thanks

 

[KartRacer54]

If you have all ingredients from kit, Beersmith will recalculate the outcome, but I think mainly you will end up with a little higher OG. Use the cooler of the two rooms, IMO fermentation process will increase temps to at least 70 maybe higher. I ferment all of my brews at 68 room temp as I currently have no way to control the temp.
As I have progressed it seems as if temperature control is EVERYTHING. 2015 goal is to have system to control temps (Cool) as heating is easy.
Have fun it only gets better and easier!

 

[stever1000]

If you have all ingredients from kit, Beersmith will recalculate the outcome, but I think mainly you will end up with a little higher OG. Use the cooler of the two rooms, IMO fermentation process will increase temps to at least 70 maybe higher. I ferment all of my brews at 68 room temp as I currently have no way to control the temp.
As I have progressed it seems as if temperature control is EVERYTHING. 2015 goal is to have system to control temps (Cool) as heating is easy.
Have fun it only gets better and easier!

Ok, cold room it is.

I added cold water to speed up the cooling time (after I ran out of ice in the sink) and to top up the wort to ~5 gallons of water used total. However I think I added too much because my OG is now 1.050-1.052 (hard to tell because of the foam)

How will this effect my recipe, aside from some dilution