No hop kettle sours

[Beerswimmer]

I recently moved and finally got to brewing again. I made 3 kettle sours, all with no hops to ensure maximum performance of my LAB, L plantarum from Goodbelly added to wort @100F and left to sour for 72hrs+. I didn't boil them to kill the LAB, just pitched yeast and Orval dregs into the fermenter after the souring process. They are between 1.002-1.000 and still show signs of activity. 2 will be bottled as soon as they hit FG, one will get some raspberries.

I know that hops are added for antimicrobial reasons, but these beers are already "infected". They are also not sweet at all, so the bittering isn't neccessary either.

I could dry hop for a few days before bottling, but I just don't think it would do anything other than a touch of aroma.


What problems will these beers have with no hops? Do any of you skip hops all together in kettle sours?

 

[Miraculix]

I can only guess that they might get too sour as the hops are somehow keeping the souring bugs a bit suppressed. But I could be totally wrong, please let us know how this turns out as I am quite into gruits without hops and over souring is quite a topic for me.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I don't think it will affect you very much. The Lacto will only sour to a maximum point, but you'll get a high level of sourness. The nice thing about kettle sours is once you re-boil to kill the lacto (which I know you didn't do) you can hop to whatever level you want.

I've never done one with no hops, but I've only done one kettle sour thus far. But even the one I have going right now is only about 7 IBU's, which to most people won't even be noticeable I don't think.

I can't say for certain that you won't have issues with no hops because I just don't know for sure, but I think you'll be fine.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Are you talking "problems" with relation to spoilage? If so, you shouldn't. The pH should be low enough after souring, and the alcohol content should be sufficient after fermentation that spoilage under reasonable packaging conditions shouldn't occur.

 

[Miraculix]

I just remembered one thing from my non hopped gruits. Some of them did not carbonate well in the bottle. The priming sugar got consumed fairly quickly but not much CO2 was produced during the consumption. I think the bugs might have turned the sugar into acid, before the yeast could get hold of it. I am talking about 4g of sugar per half a liter resulting in carbonation which I would usually get using a quarter of the amount of sugar.

So that might be a side effect.

 

[radwizard]

I've done several kettle sours with no hops. Sometimes I dry hop. If the goal is Tart and refreshing, there really isnt a need for the hops (for a homebrewer, anyways). My LAB pretty is completely hop intolerant...

Lately I have been doing some No-boil Berliner-type stuff. I have not had any problems carbing (I have been re-yeasting at bottling), but have not really gotten any head in these beers. I'm not sure if that's from the non-boiling, or no hops - It's probably a mix of the two.

 

[RPh_Guy]

As everyone already mentioned, no hops necessary.

I've done several kettle sours with no hops. Sometimes I dry hop. If the goal is Tart and refreshing, there really isnt a need for the hops (for a homebrewer, anyways). My LAB pretty is completely hop intolerant...

Lately I have been doing some No-boil Berliner-type stuff. I have not had any problems carbing (I have been re-yeasting at bottling), but have not really gotten any head in these beers. I'm not sure if that's from the non-boiling, or no hops - It's probably a mix of the two.

For the issue with poor or no head retention, might want to try pre-acidification your wort down to pH 4.3-4.7 with some lactic acid right after the mash. This disables enzymes that degrade foam proteins.

 

[radwizard]

As everyone already mentioned, no hops necessary.



For the issue with poor or no head retention, might want to try pre-acidification your wort down to pH 4.3-4.7 with some lactic acid right after the mash. This disables enzymes that degrade foam proteins.

I have been using lactic acid to pre acidify. I also use acid shock in yeast added at bottling.

There has been a noticeable difference in head retention in my Berliners, which are no boil, and my Gose's which are boiled.

The is a lot of factors with both of these methods. I brew them on different systems, keg my clean Gose's, bottle condition the Berliners etc.

Im happy with both of them. They are their own thing. I am not really brewing either to tradtional styles anyways. Just trying different ideas, and experimenting.

 

[Beerswimmer]

These are all no-boil beers too, not too concerned with head retention really. But do you think that pre-acidification of the wort before adding the LAB would help?


Oh, thanks for the replies guys!

 

[RPh_Guy]

These are all no-boil beers too, not too concerned with head retention really. But do you think that pre-acidification of the wort before adding the LAB would help?

It's not necessary but can help with head retention (among other factors) and can help prevent infection (mainly for wild bacteria sources).

See here http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Wort_Souring under processes ... How to pre-acidify

 

[Albionwood]

I have a nice unhopped Gose in kegs right now. No problems so far - it's delicious!

 

[Kent88]

Another one for no hops. Skip 'em. You're going for sour, not bitter.

 

[Miraculix]

I have a nice unhopped Gose in kegs right now. No problems so far - it's delicious!

May I ask for the recipe?

 

[jfolks]

Is OP even adding lacto? OP only mentions yeast and Orval dregs - neither of which contain LAB

 

[Albionwood]

 

[Albionwood]

May I ask for the recipe?

Gruit Gose

Sorry about the bogus post - tried to do this on the phone app...

 

[Beerswimmer]

Is OP even adding lacto? OP only mentions yeast and Orval dregs - neither of which contain LAB

Yes I did, my mistake for being unclear. I added Goodbelly Straight Shots, L. plantarum, to the wort. Original post is now edited to add.

 

[BrianDorry55]

I hopped my first kettle sour and then realized that was a waste of money. If it’s not going to add to the character of the beer, don’t bother.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I hopped my first kettle sour and then realized that was a waste of money. If it’s not going to add to the character of the beer, don’t bother.

I add some hops AFTER souring. My next batch I plan to add some Saaz late in the boil.

 

[BrianDorry55]

I add some hops AFTER souring. My next batch I plan to add some Saaz late in the boil.

Yeah if you want a little hop character in the beer then that makes sense. In my case, I'm doing heavy fruit additions and I don't really think its going to contribute to the beer. Although I do wonder how some tropical hops might add to my pina colada berliner and also am planning a sour ipa.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah if you want a little hop character in the beer then that makes sense. In my case, I'm doing heavy fruit additions and I don't really think its going to contribute to the beer. Although I do wonder how some tropical hops might add to my pina colada berliner and also am planning a sour ipa.

I had the Epic Tart N Juicy sour IPA & it was good... the only sour IPA I've ever seen.

I'm not big on fruit additions (only cherry and only in sours!), so I added 5 IBU worth of Saaz for 15 min in my last kettle sour. But yeah, agree on all points.