No fermentation again and again

[wajohnst]

The last four batches I've brewed have virtually no fermentation.
I introduced a diffusion stone with an oxygen tank to better oxygenate the wort. I bought a magnetic mixer for making yeast starters. But still I produce non-alcoholic beer. I've run out of ideas as to what I'm doing wrong. I'm brewing all-grain with liquid yeast. Any suggestions as to the most likely source of the problem would be much appreciated.

 

[ScrapRoomBrewer]

Did you have good fermentation before these four batches? Or are these your first?

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Give a rundown of your brew day and I'm sure someone can chime in with something useful.
Mash temp, yeast type, OG, FG, how long has it been since pitching, fermentation temp, ferm chamber or room temp

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Also are you checking FG with a refractometer? If so I'd bet that's your problem as alcohol will skew the refractometer reading. So FG needs to be checked with a hydrometer for n accurate reading.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Are you pitching yeast into boiling beer?

 

[Sammy86]

More info would be helpful...run us through your brew day and someone here is bound to find an answer!

 

[55x11]

The last four batches I've brewed have virtually no fermentation.
I introduced a diffusion stone with an oxygen tank to better oxygenate the wort. I bought a magnetic mixer for making yeast starters. But still I produce non-alcoholic beer. I've run out of ideas as to what I'm doing wrong. I'm brewing all-grain with liquid yeast. Any suggestions as to the most likely source of the problem would be much appreciated.

do you have fermentation in your starters?

What is the gravity and at what temperature do you pitch/ferment?

You said you have "run out of ideas" - what ideas have you considered?

Your post is so incomplete, I am not sure what sort of answer you would expect.

 

[wajohnst]

Thanks so much for the prompt and thoughtful responses.
Below is an outline of my brewing process.
I do one-gallon, stovetop batches.

Mill my grains.
Heat a gallon of water to 150 F.
Add grains.
Maintain temperature around 150 F for 60 to 75 minutes.
Do an iodine test for full conversion.
Raise temperature to 170 F and sparge with water of same temperature.
Boil for 60 minutes adding hops in one, two or three stages.
Cool to 70 F.
Transfer to bucket.
Take refractometer reading.
Oxygenate.
Add yeast. (Usually liquid yeast straight from package but the last time I used a starter. Typical yeast would be White Labs WLP001.)
Oxygenate again.
Ferment one week at room temperature. (Note: Temperature varies from warm during the day to cool at night but averaging around 70 F.)
Transfer to jug for secondary fermentation.
Ferment two weeks.
Take another refractometer reading.
Bottle.
Bottle condition for two weeks.

My original gravity has measured 1.08, 1.06, 1.05.
My ABV has been around 2.5%.

Again, any suggestions for improving the fermentation would be much appreciated. I'm willing to try anything.

 

[singybrue]

Are you adjusting your final refractometer readings to account for alcohol? Refractometers aren't accurate when alcohol is present-you have to use a calculator to get a close final reading.

 

[wajohnst]

No, I didn't realize that about refractometers. I'll look into that.

Update: Looked into adjusting refractometer readings for alcohol and, although my numbers were crude at this point, I got an even lower ABV. Is that what you would expect?

 

[str1p3s]

Probably the refractometer reading not adjusted for alcohol. When I first started, I didn't trust that I was reading the hydrometer right so I popped a few open and determined if they were giving me a buzz!

 

[chickypad]

Update: Looked into adjusting refractometer readings for alcohol and, although my numbers were crude at this point, I got an even lower ABV. Is that what you would expect?

No, it should end up lowering the final gravity with correction, thereby raising the ABV. Can you give an example of some actual numbers on a batch? Sounds like you are not calculating things right.

 

[Braufessor]

There is almost no way you can have multiple batches "not ferment"....... Yeast don't make mistakes.

If your beer is truly not fermenting there are only a few possible reasons:

*You are pitching old/dead yeast to start with
*You are pitching into wort that is hot and killing the yeast
*You have residual sanitizer like bleach in your fermenter in high enough concentration to kill the yeast
*You are fermenting at a very low temperature for way to short of a time

-Those are really about the only viable ways that yeast won't ferment wort.

It sounds like you have most of that covered.

By far the most likely scenario is that you are measuring something wrong, your refractometer is not calibrated correctly, etc.

One thing in your process is you said you moved your beer after 7 days. You might want to consider just letting primary fermentation go for 2 weeks and then bottling...... that 7 days might be a bit early and could shut down the yeast from finishing up.... we are still talking a beer that should have been around 1.020 at that point though for sure.

 

[wajohnst]

Thanks. So one example:
I had an original Brix reading of 11 and a final reading of 6.2.
I used the refractometer calculator at http://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
You're right though, I did it wrong the first time.
This time I got 4.09% which is a bit better but still not the ABV I am hoping for.

 

[Biscuits]

What Braufessor said and I will add: Buy a hydrometer. Even with the correction, refractometers are still fairly inaccurate at reading SG when alcohol is present. I am betting it is a simple matter of your measurements.

 

[chickypad]

So 1.044 and 1.013 corrected for OG and FG. What was the recipe? If you had a recipe for a higher ABV beer I assume you under shot your OG so you need to trouble shoot that. That's only about 70% apparent attenuation so can probably get that down a bit too but first off I'd start with a higher OG.

Edit: what were the readings on the beers where you had 1.080 and 1.060? Those should get you higher ABV if fermented correctly.

 

[wajohnst]

Thanks, Braufessor. I'll try leaving it in primary fermentation for longer. I have been doing test readings during fermentation and there just doesn't seem to be any progress on a day-by-day basis. I never see action in the air lock.

 

[wajohnst]

Thanks, Biscuits. I used to use a hydrometer and thought I'd get more accurate readings with a refractometer but it sounds like reverting to a hydrometer is going to work better for me.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks. So one example:
I had an original Brix reading of 11 and a final reading of 6.2.
I used the refractometer calculator at http://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
You're right though, I did it wrong the first time.
This time I got 4.09% which is a bit better but still not the ABV I am hoping for.

http://seanterrill.com/2012/01/06/refractometer-calculator/ is the most accurate one I've seen, but even so it's not as good as a hydrometer after fermentation starts.

It looks like your OG readings are low, and if you post a recipe we can help you figure your efficiency and how to improve it.

 

[wajohnst]

Thanks, Chickypad. Aiming for higher OG is another good tip. I'll try that.

 

[Anyhowe]

Thanks. So one example:
I had an original Brix reading of 11 and a final reading of 6.2.
I used the refractometer calculator at http://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
You're right though, I did it wrong the first time.
This time I got 4.09% which is a bit better but still not the ABV I am hoping for.

Without running any numbers and evaluating your recipe, 11 brix to start and a beer of 4% seems reasonable.

 

[wajohnst]

Thanks, Yooper. This problem persists across a number of recipes. I've used recipes from Brew Better Beer by Emma Christensen and also the open access recipes from Brew Dog.
In general, is the best strategy to use more grain? Would you consider adding sugar and/or DME?

 

[chickypad]

It's easier if you can post the recipe. We don't know if it's a recipe issue or efficiency issue giving you a low OG of 1.044, they are tackled very differently. But what about the batches you said you had OG of 1.080 and 1.060? What were the actual readings?

 

[Biscuits]

Thanks, Yooper. This problem persists across a number of recipes. I've used recipes from Brew Better Beer by Emma Christensen and also the open access recipes from Brew Dog.
In general, is the best strategy to use more grain? Would you consider adding sugar and/or DME?

I'd like to see your recipe / liquor volumes/gravity readings @ mash, boil, and to fermenter to try and troubleshoot your issue. When scaling a recipe from 5 gallons to 1 gallon, if you ask me, it is not as simple as just dividing everything by 5.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, Yooper. This problem persists across a number of recipes. I've used recipes from Brew Better Beer by Emma Christensen and also the open access recipes from Brew Dog.
In general, is the best strategy to use more grain? Would you consider adding sugar and/or DME?

I'd like to see your recipe / liquor volumes/gravity readings @ mash, boil, and to fermenter to try and troubleshoot your issue. When scaling a recipe from 5 gallons to 1 gallon, if you ask me, it is not as simple as just dividing everything by 5.

I agree. Adding more grain may be the answer- but maybe not if the cause of the low efficiency can be ascertained and fixed.

Water volumes, amount of type of grain, and finished beer volume are needed to know where to help direct you.

 

[wajohnst]

Chickypad, I'm sorry but it looks increasingly like my problems relate to mis-use of the refractometer. What I thought was 1.080/1.060 when I enter in the brewersfriend Brix calculator comes out as 1.037/1.011... so another case of inadequate OG.

 

[wajohnst]

So my last batch was as follows:
two pounds of pale maris otter plus a few specialty grains
started with one gallon of water at 150 F
sparged with a gallon and a half of water at 170 F
ended up with one gallon of beer

specialty grains:
63g of caramel/crystal 10 Breiss
14g of Munich dark 30L Gambrinus
63g of Munich 10L Gambrinus

 

[Biscuits]

What specialty grains and how much of each? When brewing, especially such a small batch, the details matter.

 

[Anyhowe]

11 brix and 4% is fine. Looks like a recipe issue

 

[chickypad]

We need more about your process. What is your boil off? Are you leaving a lot in the kettle post boil in order to only get 1 gal in the fermenter? Are you brewing in a bag? If so is the bag big and loose so you can really stir the grains or are you just dunking it like a teabag? How are you measuring temps? When you say you start with one gal of 150* water do you mean before you add the grains? If so are you adding heat to get it back up to 150 and holding there? Are you stirring really well to get uniform temp?

 

[55x11]

Chickypad, I'm sorry but it looks increasingly like my problems relate to mis-use of the refractometer. What I thought was 1.080/1.060 when I enter in the brewersfriend Brix calculator comes out as 1.037/1.011... so another case of inadequate OG.

original gravity should have been correct using refractometer.
posting recipe will help figure out what your efficiency is.
It could be something in your process or it could be that you simply didn't add enough grain.

 

[wajohnst]

I have a simple hand-held digital thermometer.
To hold around 150% I put the kettle in the oven set at the lowest temperature.
I test the temperature every 15 minutes and adjust accordingly. I stir well each time.
I do test with iodine to ensure 100% conversion.
I don't leave anything in the kettle. I lose some liquid during sparging but not a lot.

 

[Biscuits]

I'm thinking there are a few things happening here. This is assuming all of your measuring equipment is calibrated and being used correctly.

It looks like your recipe (I am assuming 2.25 lbs. of grain since we never got a specific type or amount of specialty grains for your recipe) is alright for a 1 gallon batch. However, I am not sure how you are sparging, which could be the reason your OG is not what you expected. 2.25 lbs. of MO has the potential to give you a preboil SG of 1.036 - 1.037 when mash/sparging with 2 gallons. After boiling off about a gallon of that you should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.045 - 1.050 OG. So, I am thinking that you may not be getting the best mash conversion and/or sparge efficiency is low. If your brew kettle is large enough, I would consider doing a full volume mash. This not only simplifies your brew process but it should allow for better mash conversion efficiency.

 

[55x11]

So my last batch was as follows:
two pounds of pale maris otter plus a few specialty grains
started with one gallon of water at 150 F
sparged with a gallon and a half of water at 170 F
ended up with one gallon of beer

specialty grains:
63g of caramel/crystal 10 Breiss
14g of Munich dark 30L Gambrinus
63g of Munich 10L Gambrinus

your efficiency is about 53%, assuming your measurements are exactly spot on. With efficiency of 70%, you should be expecting about 1.058 OG, and maybe closer to 6.0% ABV.

You can try to figure out why your efficiency is low (but double-check your calculations, you can easily have 5-10% uncertainty in most measurements, and 1G batches are often "lossy" due to small volume loss here and there), or you can add more base grain next time.

 

[Yooper]

I have a simple hand-held digital thermometer.
To hold around 150% I put the kettle in the oven set at the lowest temperature.
I test the temperature every 15 minutes and adjust accordingly. I stir well each time.
I do test with iodine to ensure 100% conversion.
I don't leave anything in the kettle. I lose some liquid during sparging but not a lot.

What do you mean that you lose some liquid during sparging?

How much water do you start with, and how much wort do you end up with? The grain should absorb about .125 gallons/pound of grain, so probably about 1/2 a gallon, but you won't lose any liquid during the sparge since the grain is saturated.

For your technique, do you use 1-2 quarts of water per pound of grain in the mash? And then pour hot water over that for the sparge? Or something else?

 

[bernardsmith]

I guess I would want to know what is the SG of the beer in the bottle. Do you still have your hydrometer? Could you pour out a measure of beer and allow all the CO2 to gas out and then take a reading. You might find that - all other things being equal - the beer is as fermented as it should be and if the problem has to do with efficiency then the issue has nothing to do with what is happening after you pitch the yeast...

 

[wajohnst]

Biscuits,

Thanks.
To confirm:
two pounds of pale maris otter plus a few specialty grains
specialty grains:
63g of caramel/crystal 10 Breiss
14g of Munich dark 30L Gambrinus
63g of Munich 10L Gambrinus

A bit more about sparging and boil.
I sparge with 1.5 gallons of water at 170 F.
I sparge four times going from kettle to bucket, back and forth.
There is some spillage each time so that accounts for a small amount of lost wort.
I boil for one hour and that generally reduces the wort from 1.5 gallons down to one gallon.
Maybe a bigger kettle would help?

 

[KepowOb]

Edit: didn't notice the last two pages when I posted, please ignore this, hah.

 

[Biscuits]

Biscuits,

Thanks.
To confirm:
two pounds of pale maris otter plus a few specialty grains
specialty grains:
63g of caramel/crystal 10 Breiss
14g of Munich dark 30L Gambrinus
63g of Munich 10L Gambrinus

A bit more about sparging and boil.
I sparge with 1.5 gallons of water at 170 F.
I sparge four times going from kettle to bucket, back and forth.
There is some spillage each time so that accounts for a small amount of lost wort.
I boil for one hour and that generally reduces the wort from 1.5 gallons down to one gallon.
Maybe a bigger kettle would help?

I am confused because earlier you said you mashed with 1 gallon and sparged with 1 gallon and now you're saying you sparge with 1.5 gallons. So, total volume of water you use is 2.5 gallons, but during the process you spill some and some is absorbed by grain (1 gal.) which contributes to your losses and results in a preboil volume of 1.5 gal.?? I don't know where to start because you keep changing your story. It's perfectly okay if you're not sure of your volumes...I will be the first to admit that I am not measuring exact volumes after my mash is complete...but so far you have given me variations of .5 gallons depending on which post I go by, which on a 5 gallon or larger batch isn't a big deal...but on a 1 gallon batch it means the world. Take some time to think it through and post a thorough recount of your brew day, otherwise everything is speculation and we cannot help you.

 

[wajohnst]

Sorry for the confusion, Biscuits. The recipe instructions advise to sparge with one gallon and target an end result of 1.5 gallons. That's what I do. It was an error to say that I sparged with 1.5 gallons. Sorry.