Newell's Groundhog Cider (woodchuck amber clone)

[Guthdog]

OK, so you cold crash to slow/stop fermentation so the KM and sorbate can act more effectively?

Question: I thought sorbate slowed yeast reproduction, but K-Meta actually kills the yeast doesn't it?

 

[stujol]

I don't think it kills wine yeast unless you use it in bigger doses than what I do. Someone with more knowledge can jump in here in enlighten us. It was down to 1.010 last night. I would have swore it was 1.040 in the morning but maybe I misread the hydrometer, I was heading off to work. Seems like a big drop for 12 hours. But I racked it and added the potassium sorbate and metabisulphite. It is chilling in the garage fridge now. The filtering didn't work out to well. Keep plugging up the filters even with a #2 filter

 

[a9a1c1]

Wow 7 a gallon for fresh cider, I guess I have a great cider house at 4 a gallon. On a side note, just pulled my 30g batch with English cider yeast and plan on filtering it on a 2 stage with 50 mic as the first and 5 for the last, then force carb in the keg. Hoping I pulled at the correct number. Shooting for 7%abv with fg at 1.010. SG was high at 1.060. It still tastes sweet, and thank god I have access to a walk-in cooler for the cold crash or would have rocket fuel (which I had before, which turned into vinegar before I could drink it)

 

[PilotCline]

Just made this tonight. I went with the original recipe on the front page that newell had. I used 4.5 gallons of Sams club brand juice. $14 for 4.5 gallons. I used walmart brand concentrate at $1 per can. Took 3 cans or 36oz to get up to 1.058. I used 4 tsp of yeast nutrient per the instructions on the bottle. Aerated very well with the shaking half jugs method. Looking forward to this. I will update when finished!

 

[WoodAle]

Put a batch of this together this weekend as my first try at cider. Followed the recipe just as PilotCline did. I may be speaking too soon, but it was so easy I don't know why I haven't done this sooner.

Does anybody have any experience bottling this from the keg? I was considering trying to bottle after 2 weeks to a month in the keg at 38 degrees F. Would I still risk bottle bombs if they were stored at room temp after bottling. What about stored cold?

 

[PilotCline]

So I am going to keg this tomorrow. I just don't have it in me tonight. What is the general idea on how many cans of juice concentrate it takes to go from around 1.0 to 1.029? I will pick up some cans tomorrow, I just wanted to know roughly how many to buy. Thanks!

 

[WoodAle]

A previous post noted 48 oz of concentrate (4 cans) taking the fg from 1.008 to 1.029.

Let us know your results.

 

[PilotCline]

Alright. It is finished. A few rookie mistakes, and lessons learned. It finished out right at 1.00, giving me 7.47%ABV. I used 6 cans of concentrate and got it up to 1.022. I gave up at that point as I did not have anymore concentrate and did not feel like running to the 24 hour Walmart. I mixed it for quite a while, so I am happy with that gravity. It may not have been completely mixed, so the gravity might be a few points higher, but I mixed for a good 5 minutes and figured that was good enough. The sample is quite delicious! I have it in the keezer now to force carbonate for a few weeks. My biggest mistake was realizing when the keg was close to full that I forgot to put in the Potassium Sorbate. I had pre-measured it out in a small cup, just forgot to add it until the last second. So while the siphon was still going, I dumped it in and tried mixing it quickly with the paddle that I was using earlier. I actually filled up the keg with about 24 ounces worth left in the bucket! That was my other mistake. I started with 4.5 gallons, and ended up adding around .8 gallons of concentrate between the initial sugar bump and tonight's back sweetening. So yeah, didn't do the math out ahead of time, but that is about 5.3 gallons into a "5" gallon keg. I ended up sealing it and shaking the hell out of it trying to mix the sorbate a little more. I hope that is good enough and the keezer temps should help as well. So now I am enjoying my two pint glasses of this stuff uncarbed while I am recalling my nights adventure! Next time, as I am pretty sure there will be a next time, I will start with only 4 gallons at the beginning. It almost seems wasteful to end up with to much, even though I am drinking it right now. Good luck WoodAle, let me know how yours turns out.

 

[StoutLover]

I made a batch of this and bottled it using the pasteurization method in the cider forum. If I recall, it filled about 54 bottles. I didn't backsweeten quite as much as I should have, but this is really tasty, and everyone who's tried it loves it. I'll definitely be making another batch in the near future.

I think I have this recipe to thank for turning my wife on to the need for a keezer. :rockin:

 

[newell456]

Ten gallons of trouble here! It's nice to see more people enjoying this recipe. I made teo batches, so I did one with champagne yeast and one with Montrachet to experiment. I'm thinking of doing a secondary with cinnamon sticks.

 

[VOCBrewery]

First of all, thanks to all who post on these boards. The knowledge base is unfriggin believable. I have 5 batches of beer under my belt and I would like to reward SWMBO for her support and patience.

#1 Is there really no boiling this recipe? Hard to believe something that looks so tasty can be this easy.

#2 Fermenting temps. The details on the Red Star are pretty clear 59-86*. I was wondering what the ideal temp is. I would love to do this @ room temp (74*) so i didn't tie up my fermenting chamber.

#3 If i do need to ferment cooler, can I store it in a keg at room temp after 1-2 months of fermenting?

#4 Should I use a starter or is one pack of yeast enough?

Thanks again

---- Doug

 

[StoutLover]

First of all, thanks to all who post on these boards. The knowledge base is unfriggin believable. I have 5 batches of beer under my belt and I would like to reward SWMBO for her support and patience.

#1 Is there really no boiling this recipe? Hard to believe something that looks so tasty can be this easy.

#2 Fermenting temps. The details on the Red Star are pretty clear 59-86*. I was wondering what the ideal temp is. I would love to do this @ room temp (74*) so i didn't tie up my fermenting chamber.

#3 If i do need to ferment cooler, can I store it in a keg at room temp after 1-2 months of fermenting?

#4 Should I use a starter or is one pack of yeast enough?

Thanks again

---- Doug

1. Nope, no boiling.
2. Room temp should be just fine. I did a five gallon batch at around 77 degrees, and it was great.
3. No need.
4. No need for a starter. Just pitch a yeast pack on top and let it do it's thing. One pack is enough. I used yeast nutrient, but that's up to you.

 

[VOCBrewery]

Thanks for the answers StoutLover

 

[N2GN2]

I'm getting ready to keg my batch. At what PSI and for how long should I force carb? Thanks!

The apples were fresh juiced. I added 1 can of concentrate to 1 gallon of juice for an OG of 1.055. My FG was 1.00 after sitting in secondary for a couple of months. I took 3 cans of concentrate to back sweeten to 1.030.

 

[N2GN2]

My first batch of this cider was amazing! The two gallons I made went way too fast. I put a new batch in the keg last week to carb and tried it yesterday. This batch is not very good at all. I read that some have to let the batch sit for 6+ months before being drinkable? In an effort to stay away from china apples this last batch was made using Kirkland apple juice and organic cane sugar for priming and back sweetening. I noticed the recipe calls for corn sugar if not using apple juice concentrate. I would love to use concentrate but I have not found one that uses US apples. This current batch had SG 1.068 FG 1.000 then sweetened to 1.028 so its a little hot. Fermentation took about two weeks then it was moved to secondary for a month. My first batch that tasted so good sat in secondary for a few months till it was as clear as apple juice. When kegging my current batch it was still cloudy. I did not use pectic enzyme on this last batch. Any words of encouragement? Thanks!

 

[N2GN2]

After some searching I think I found the answer to a great cider. I need to use corn sugar to boost ABV, but I need to stop at 1.058 as the recipe calls for. I will use apple juice concentrate to back sweeten and bring the apple flavor back! I believe that Tree Top sells an apple juice concentrate made from 100% U.S. apples. Corn sugar will be cheaper to boost ABV than apple juice concentrate. The more ABV, the less desirable taste for a cider.

 

[thinbluebbq]

Just started six gallons of cider using this recipe today. Here is the breakdown of my batch.

OG - 1.058
5-1/2 Gallons of Great Value Apple Juice, fully aerated
1/4 gallon of simple syrup to get to desired OG

Yeast - Red Star Champagne Yeast


Looking forward to adding the other stats as the batch gets done fermenting.

 

[Hankhill11]

I started a 3 gallon batch of this on 10/5. Its fermented down to 1.001 i or so. I did end up putting it into secondary on the 25th. It tasted really good. Like a fruity white wine with apple hints.

1. I plan to back sweet a tiny bit and bottle carb. Can someone explain to me if there is enough yeast anywhere in the liquid for that? Since i racked it off, there is virtually no sediment at the bottom. Will it carb?

2. When planning to bottle carb, is it best to back sweeten and let it sit in the carboy til you know if fermentation starts up again, or just sweeten and bottle immediately?

I have plastics to test for carb once bottled.

 

[ErickJ]

I started a 3 gallon batch of this on 10/5. Its fermented down to 1.001 i or so. I did end up putting it into secondary on the 25th. It tasted really good. Like a fruity white wine with apple hints.

1. I plan to back sweet a tiny bit and bottle carb. Can someone explain to me if there is enough yeast anywhere in the liquid for that? Since i racked it off, there is virtually no sediment at the bottom. Will it carb?

2. When planning to bottle carb, is it best to back sweeten and let it sit in the carboy til you know if fermentation starts up again, or just sweeten and bottle immediately?

I have plastics to test for carb once bottled.

Did you ever get it bottled? I'm very interested in making this recipe. Did it bottle carb for you?

 

[Hankhill11]

Did you ever get it bottled? I'm very interested in making this recipe. Did it bottle carb for you?

I did! I bottled it on 11/6. It was really good. One of my top 2 ciders so far. I have one 22oz left. I dont know how much like woodchuck it actually tasted, but it did have great flavor and body. I let it carb til 11/11 and then stovetop pasteurized. It was carbed enough for me. I like a little lower carbonation over all, but its got da bubbles

Unfortunately i didn't keep enough notes to tell me what i actually did to it for back sweetening and priming. i just wrote the dates down.

 

[ErickJ]

I did! I bottled it on 11/6. It was really good. One of my top 2 ciders so far. I have one 22oz left. I dont know how much like woodchuck it actually tasted, but it did have great flavor and body. I let it carb til 11/11 and then stovetop pasteurized. It was carbed enough for me. I like a little lower carbonation over all, but its got da bubbles

Unfortunately i didn't keep enough notes to tell me what i actually did to it for back sweetening and priming. i just wrote the dates down.

Thanks!

That's what I'm worried about. I want a mid - high level of carbonation. Is there a way to tell when to stovetop pasteurize? Or is it all best guess?

 

[Hankhill11]

Is there a way to tell when to stovetop pasteurize

You can get some 12oz sodas and drink them/empty the bottles. bottle one or two ciders in them. once the plastic 12oz is really hard, check them for carb level. check one, if its not carbed enough wait longer and check the 2nd one. It can be a couple or few weeks, but i'd start checking at the 5-7 day mark. It will also depend on how you treat the cider before you bottle. If you cold crash then bottle, i'm sure it will be on the longer side since the yeast have to come out of their dormant state first.

 

[ErickJ]

You can get some 12oz sodas and drink them/empty the bottles. bottle one or two ciders in them. once the plastic 12oz is really hard, check them for carb level. check one, if its not carbed enough wait longer and check the 2nd one. It can be a couple or few weeks, but i'd start checking at the 5-7 day mark. It will also depend on how you treat the cider before you bottle. If you cold crash then bottle, i'm sure it will be on the longer side since the yeast have to come out of their dormant state first.

Awesome. That's what I wanted to know. I ordered a keg set up. Oh well. It looks like I'll do both. Thanks again for the great information.

 

[ATLPat]

I'm brewing a cider (the original recipe on this thread, pretty much) and was intending to dose the cider with Potassium Sorbate after fermentation is complete, before back sweetening. Now I'm reading (in other sources) that both Potassium Sorbate and Potassium Metabisulfite should be added prior to back sweetening.

My initial thought was that K-meta is only needed up front in the cider making process if you're using unpasteurized cider (to kill or supress any wild yeasts)... but now I'm thinking maybe it's needed in back sweetening (any cider).

So my question is, do I need both K-sorbate and K-meta or just the K-sorbate prior to back sweetening? I'm trying to understand the difference.

 

[Newsman]

(SNIP)
So my question is, do I need both K-sorbate and K-meta or just the K-sorbate prior to back sweetening? I'm trying to understand the difference.

Both before back-sweetening.