New to kegging. What size CO2 cylinder should I get?

[bracconiere]

i think @ILovePils wanted to know how many kegs he can carb and push?

It's probably something I'll sell or give to a friend just starting.

hear that Ilovepils...free 5lb tank, you just pay shipping!

(and to everyone saying two tanks are better then one, a scale is cheaper! and when the high pressure gauge starts to drop, it's time to swap! but you still have two three days left....)

 

[apache_brew]

i think @ILovePils wanted to know how many kegs he can carb and push?



hear that Ilovepils...free 5lb tank, you just pay shipping!

(and to everyone saying two tanks are better then one, a scale is cheaper! and when the high pressure gauge starts to drop, it's time to swap! but you still have two three days left....)

Tomayto/tomahto. The title claimed new to kegging and inquired on suggestions of CO2 tank size. I would never recommend a 5 or 10 lb tank to anyone wanting to use CO2 for homebrewing or kegging in my locality, hence the given reasons I stated for searching for a 20 lb one and using it. If you want to talk about prices, I've acquired (3) 20 lb tanks for $90 total. Two of them on separate Craigslist ads for $60 and $30 respectively. And the third tank was free that came with a kegerator also on Craigslist. (threw away the fridge and kept the tank, regulator, coupler, tap) Sure, prices for used stuff and availability will vary depending on where you live, but if you're not in a hurry, look into local deals and take advantage of them.

To answer the OP's follow up question of if a 10lb tank will support a kegerator in the future, yes it will. A 10lb tank will push and carb 15 to 20 five gallon kegs of beer without any line leaks or CO2 purging for other homebrewing related activities.

 

[DVCNick]

I do purges, etc with my main 10lb tank, so it's not an exact science, but I think I get roughly one keg per pound of C02, carbed and dispensed, including all extra activities as well.
Maybe I've got a small leak somewhere in the distributor or kegs somewhere, not sure.
I don't think you should realistically expect to get 28 kegs out of a five pounder though even if the math says that what it is.
The larger the tank, the cheaper the Co2. So the answer to the original question, if it is meant to stay stationary, is as big a tank as you can afford/fit.

 

[bracconiere]

then how the hell am i getting 75 kegs carbed and pushed with a 20lb, filled only with 18lb's?

let me pull up some pics...

you can see how much i brew, and a 20lb'r only filled to 18lb's serves that much for me for 10 months, and that's before i had my current scale and only caught a leak after i allready lost 2 lb's to it....now i can catch after only an ounce! whew who!

just looked at my finacial records for 2017, i swapped a tank for $27 on Jan 10th 2017, and again on Oct 16th 2017......and like i said i'm prone to leaks with my ghetto setup.....think i lost 2-3lb's acording to cheap spring load bathroom scale i was keeping it on.....now i got a nice digital one....

and in case you're curious what drinking that much costs, that unassigned one is the bottle of fortified wine i felt like buying.....

 

[SteveP]

I use a 20lb on the kegerator (4 corny kegs, 3 beer, one fizzy water). I also have a 5lb for purging / pushing / backup etc.
I have a fill kit so I can get a relatively cheap 20lb fill, and then fill the 5lb from the 20lb.
Kit pays for itself after the first 5lb fill. Fizzy water needs higher pressure (40+ psi) so uses more CO2.

 

[Yooper]

It depends on where you get your CO2. We only have swaps now, and they don't carry 10# cylinders so I couldn't swap that one out any longer. So I had a 10# that was pretty useless. They do swap 5# and 20#, although with the "hazardous" fee, which I think was $10/tank, they are pretty close in price. If I remember correctly, the 5# was $22 or so, and the 20# was $35ish.

 

[doug293cz]

can you modify that to go to 50psi!....exactly how much pain do i have to actually go through watching the scale go down while purging...? oh hell i do it if i'm sober in the morning...

but in my drunkin stupor now, what would be worse, whaitng and purging....until you get the right weight of co2, or purging upfornt...like how long does co2 take to dissolve vs o2?

You can't purge by weight. After the first few purge cycles, the weight change between cycles is infinitesimal.

You really don't need to wait, after pressurizing with CO2, before venting. The CO2 rushing into the keg will mix up the headspace almost instantly. If you wait on the fill cycle until the noise stops, then mixing will be complete, and you can vent immediately. Even if mixing isn't quite complete, you are more likely to have higher CO2 concentration(lower O2) in the lower portion of the headspace, and the upper portion, from which you vent, would have the higher O2 concentration.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

the weight change between cycles is infinitesimal.

MF'r i purge and cry because it costs me 1/2-1 oz, but i've been doing it 6-7 times, but sometimes i cry harder thus the wide variance...do i need to worry that much...and yeah i got my tank on a scale that, if i put a plastic measuring cup that weighs 24grams (from a gram scale) it goes up .8 ounces.....co2 leaks terrify me!

but purging, damn i could carb the keg with what i'm burning right now.....not even sure if i give a f about oxidation that much.....

thanks for the chart, so if i only do it 4 times at 50psi, it's like about 7 times at 20psi? 3 times wouldn't even hurt the scale...i see that scale drop about.0.1oz a blow.....

edit: being that my little oxygen tank is only 1.x oz's and co2 is a luid at reasonable pressure? you talking about the o2 or the co2? because i assure you 1oz is A LOT!

 

[doug293cz]

MF'r i purge and cry because it costs me 1/2-1 oz, but i've been doing it 6-7 times, but sometimes i cry harder thus the wide variance...do i need to worry that much...and yeah i got my tank on a scale that, if i put a plastic measuring cup that weighs 24grams (from a gram scale) it goes up .8 ounces.....co2 leaks terrify me!

but purging, damn i could carb the keg with what i'm burning right now.....not even sure if i give a f about oxidation that much.....

thanks for the chart, so if i only do it 4 times at 50psi, it's like about 7 times at 20psi? 3 times wouldn't even hurt the scale...i see that scale drop about.0.1oz a blow.....

edit: being that my little oxygen tank is only 1.x oz's and co2 is a luid at reasonable pressure? you talking about the o2 or the co2? because i assure you 1oz is A LOT!

You can easily weigh the amount of CO2 entering the headspace during the pressurize portion of the purge cycle. What you cannot do is determine the amount of residual O2 in the headspace by weight. Purging is all about getting the residual O2 down to a level acceptable to you.

If you turn over kegs quickly, and don't do NEIPA's, then you will be less affected by oxidation than someone who's kegs last months before kicking, or someone who brews extremely oxidation sensitive styles. So, you can probably tolerate significantly more O2 in the headspace, and not need to purge as much.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

You can easily weigh the amount of CO2 entering the headspace during the pressurize portion of the purge cycle. What you cannot do is determine the amount of residual O2 in the headspace by weight. Purging is all about getting the residual O2 down to a level acceptable to you.

If you turn over kegs quickly, and don't do NEIPA's, then you will be less affected by oxidation than someone who's kegs last months before kicking, or someone who brews extremely oxidation sensitive styles. So, you can probably tolerate significantly more O2 in the headspace, and not need to purge as much.

Brew on

so like i drink a keg in 4 days, and try to keep 6 full....so just like two purges would work? i only use like 1.5oz of hops in my 10 gallon batches......sometimes 2...

i do apreciate the effort the chart that "goes to 50", lol....next empty keg i get without a sticker allready i'll dedicate the one i have to slap on it to you!

 

[khannon]

I would go with "Whatever is easiest to fill/swap" Around here 20lb tanks are swappable at several "Grow stores" for ~$23, the 5lb are a hassle to get refilled. So for me, I went with 20lb, I picked up a few cheap and swapped them out. Where my daughter lives, there is a LHBS that fills/swaps 5lb tanks, so when I built a system for her, I did a 5lb tank(she and her fiance drink less and get pre-carbed stuff).
MJ became legal in MA some time ago, so all the stores carry CO2 tanks for indoor growing(bigger yields?). depending on where you are, maybe take a look.
Kevin

 

[ILovePils]

Onwards is the hunt for a used 20 lb. cylinder! Thank you all for your invaluable information, anecdotes, and advice!

 

[jseyfert3]

Not to beat a dead horse too much longer, but get what you can get filled or swap later. I went with a 20 lb, cause Airgas is half a mile from my house and a 20 lb tank plus half price first fill with taxes was $220. After this it's an exchange, 20 lb is $30, 10 lb was $28, and 5 lb was $20-$22. I think a new 5 lb tank was $100 or $120. So I just went with the larger tank for economy of scale.

I don't think Airgas fills tanks, just the exchange. So don't BUY an empty tank unless you have a supplier you know will refill and not just exchange.

(and to everyone saying two tanks are better then one, a scale is cheaper! and when the high pressure gauge starts to drop, it's time to swap! but you still have two three days left....)

I was thinking this too. I've been meaning to get a scale for a while. Got a link or model name/number for the one you use?

 

[ILovePils]

I found someone nearby selling 3-20 lb'rs for $200 so I'm seeing if I can snag one for $60-$70! As long as they've been recently hydro tested.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm seeing if I can snag one for $60-$70! As long as they've been recently hydro tested.

That would be a good deal!
If out of date, maybe knock another $20 off?
Hydro tests run around $25-35, but again, some places try to charge a small fortune.

Most of the time swap stations don't even check the hydro date. And they shouldn't charge you for testing an out of date tank.
But call around first, to make sure. Swap prices may vary too. My 2 Praxair suppliers here had the best rate, as of last August.

 

[bracconiere]

Not to beat a dead horse too much longer, but get what you can get filled or swap later. I went with a 20 lb, cause Airgas is half a mile from my house and a 20 lb tank plus half price first fill with taxes was $220. After this it's an exchange, 20 lb is $30, 10 lb was $28, and 5 lb was $20-$22. I think a new 5 lb tank was $100 or $120. So I just went with the larger tank for economy of scale.

I don't think Airgas fills tanks, just the exchange. So don't BUY an empty tank unless you have a supplier you know will refill and not just exchange.


I was thinking this too. I've been meaning to get a scale for a while. Got a link or model name/number for the one you use?

yeah i think when i "upgraded my 5lb tank they charged me something around $200 for it.....that was 15 years ago when i thought a 5lb tank only lasted a week, because i had mad leaks...

and this is the scale someone else showed told me about, i've been a fan boy of it ever since...acurate to 0.1oz's and only $27...stays on 24/7 when plugged into the wall....LOVE THIS THING! i'm hoping, i'll never lose more then an ounce or two to a leak again.....!!!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KYA0RC2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(i don't know why but co2 leaks really make me feel like an ameature! )

 

[JAReeves]

I just recently purchased a backup cylinder (2x5#). While I refill my propane at the Uhaul (saves me $5 per fillup vs. tank swap at Home Depot or somewhere else), the LHBS is only 1/2 mile away, so I pay a premium price of $20 for a 5# swap. They don't carry bigger tanks at my LHBS. I'm not complaining, though, as I don't want to spend an hour on the freeway to the 2nd closest Homebrew Store if he doesn't get enough business to stay open.

 

[bracconiere]

I just recently purchased a backup cylinder (2x5#). While I refill my propane at the Uhaul (saves me $5 per fillup vs. tank swap at Home Depot or somewhere else), the LHBS is only 1/2 mile away, so I pay a premium price of $20 for a 5# swap. They don't carry bigger tanks at my LHBS. I'm not complaining, though, as I don't want to spend an hour on the freeway to the 2nd closest Homebrew Store if he doesn't get enough business to stay open.

out of curiosity how many kegs does your 5#'r carb and push? i'm still wondering myself? everyone else in this thread says they get 10-15 out of 10lb's, someone said 8-10 out of a 5lb tank....and my under filled 20lb'rs go for over 75? and i have a ghetto system that i just TRY and keep from leaking?

(and as far as tank size, the only reason i don't have a 50lb tank is because i wouldn't be able to lift it )

edit: my math puts a tweleve ounce pour at .65 grams....and with carbing only take ~1.5oz....i'm thinking everyone else has leakyr systems then me!

 

[Nick&Worty]

out of curiosity how many kegs does your 5#'r carb and push? i'm still wondering myself? everyone else in this thread says they get 10-15 out of 10lb's, someone said 8-10 out of a 5lb tank....and my under filled 20lb'rs go for over 75? and i have a ghetto system that i just TRY and keep from leaking?

(and as far as tank size, the only reason i don't have a 50lb tank is because i wouldn't be able to lift it )

For me it's one of those "totally depends" things. If I'm just putting serving pressure on already-carbonated kegs and swapping them out I'd say at least 10 or more out of a 5LB tank. If I'm force carbing at 30psi and blowing off headspace several times it changes things. I'll also be lazy and use the CO2 pressure to push cleaner and sanitizer through the lines. It all counts

Totally agree with the idea that in this case bigger is better. I've never had leak problems myself. Tighten like hell, use good washers and fittings, and spray/submerge test everything under pressure and you should be good!

 

[Dland]

To original question, I's say a 20#er unless you're volume is quite low or there are space or portability considerations. It will last a long time before refill, that is a good thing.

 

[JAReeves]

out of curiosity how many kegs does your 5#'r carb and push? i'm still wondering myself? everyone else in this thread says they get 10-15 out of 10lb's, someone said 8-10 out of a 5lb tank....and my under filled 20lb'rs go for over 75? and i have a ghetto system that i just TRY and keep from leaking?

(and as far as tank size, the only reason i don't have a 50lb tank is because i wouldn't be able to lift it )

edit: my math puts a tweleve ounce pour at .65 grams....and with carbing only take ~1.5oz....i'm thinking everyone else has leakyr systems then me!

Honestly, I don't pay attention to it. I check the regulator to see that it is at the carb/serving pressure I want and if I have a leak (which has happened a couple times lately). Otherwise, I figure it's a consumable cost that I must endure in order to drink my homemade fresh beer. The last two kegs I filled were purged with CO2, then I pushed the beer out of the Anvil into the keg with CO2, so I know I am going through CO2 faster than I used to. But it's all in pursuit of better beer, yeah?

 

[bracconiere]

If I'm force carbing at 30psi and blowing off headspace several times it changes things.

that's why i thanked doug for the chart with 50psi included.....doing that with the tank on a scale is painful to watch.....wasn't quite sure how much i needed to blow out, now i know just two or three times at 50psi will be good enough for me.....which is only like 0.1-0.2 ounces....

and as far as pushing cleaner/sanitizer through the lines, a whole keg should only take 1.23oz's? or am i doing my math wrong? i just recently learned about these things so trying to see if i'm stupid?

 

[bracconiere]

then I pushed the beer out of the Anvil into the keg with CO2

still only talking about an ounce out of what would be an 80 ounce tank.....

 

[Nick&Worty]

that's why i thanked doug for the chart with 50psi included.....doing that with the tank on a scale is painful to watch.....wasn't quite sure how much i needed to blow out, now i know just two or three times at 50psi will be good enough for me.....which is only like 0.1-0.2 ounces....

and as far as pushing cleaner/sanitizer through the lines, a whole keg should only take 1.23oz's? or am i doing my math wrong? i just recently learned about these things so trying to see if i'm stupid?

Yeah that part should be pretty negligible. It's still a treat for me, compared to my pre-corny-conversion days when I was manually hand-pumping this stupid plastic reservoir full of air pressure to get cleaner through the kegerator lines!

 

[bracconiere]

air pressure to get cleaner through the kegerator lines!

damn, i just made a joke about using star-san for sparge water....lol, maybe i should add PBW too!

(i wonder if i'd get any "off flavors"? )

 

[Jim R]

If you are ever going to travel with beer (parties, family gatherings, solo trips, game day tailgating, etc.), you need a 5# tank for convenience. The best set up for me is a 5# and a 20# tank.

 

[apache_brew]

If you are ever going to travel with beer (parties, family gatherings, solo trips, game day tailgating, etc.), you need a 5# tank for convenience. The best set up for me is a 5# and a 20# tank.

That’s arguable. The handheld charges are nice for a mobile solution.

 

[bracconiere]

That’s arguable. The handheld charges are nice for a mobile solution.
View attachment 700001

you know man i was thinking of making something like that and calling it the perfect burst! for burst carbing! just right for a 5 gallon corny, just realease it into it shake a bit, and then chill and let mix!......

 

[Beermeister32]

There can be some space limitations depending on where you are carbonating. I have one 4.4 cubic inch refrigerator I keep at 34F for carbing. It holds two kegs, and I can also fit a 5 lb CO2 bottle in the door area with a Velcro strap and a reversed regulator that I reassembled. It is tight but it fits.

 

[govner1]

I started with just one five pounder for my kegerator. Over the years (8+) I’ve gradually accumulated a total of four plus two 20# cylinders that were give to me.
I use the 5# for kegerator plus CO2 transfers and jockey box and always a spare.
I put the 20# in my freezer/ lager/ carbing chamber. Plus a backup.