New time saving setup

[Cody s]

Due to time constraints I was ready to give up the hobby, but I don't think I can. After some reading I have came up with some things that may save some time.
I have looked into the fastferment fermenter it wound save time racking to a secondary and cleaning two carboys plus save yeast which saves me a trip to the store. I will have to fill it upstairs then transport it to the root cellar but I think if I get 2 stands and a carrying handle it would be as easy as a carboy.
I also looked at the tilt hydrometer that may cut down on taking many SG readings. I do use a wireless thermometer in the cellar so I assume this may also connect upstairs.
I do enjoy all the time I spend brewing but life changes and I need to save time. Plus I tried some from the store the other day and it's very expensive and basically tastes awful. I guess I'm just used to good old fashioned homebrew.
Any thoughts or experiences on this equipment?

 

[TechFanMD]

First - Just don't do the secondary. It's just a way to oxidize your beer and risk infection. It is not recommended practice anymore for most beers.

Second - I have a tilt and love it, and it's cool to know the gravity....but normally you shouldn't even take a reading until you're pretty sure it's done anyway. I almost never took a reading early and closed it back up. Every time you open it it lets in oxygen = oxidation. I would not consider it a time saving device, just a neat thing to have.

Things that take a lot of time brewing - heating and cooling water. Spend time on things that make these shorter and it will cut down on brew time a lot. Kegging saves a TON of time over bottling.

Sounds like you are willing to invest some money in the hobby - so these are where I'd put my money. Also, if you have glass carboys and transport them up and down stairs - think seriously about getting something plastic (i.e. better bottle, big mouth bubbler). It's lighter and if you fall you don't risk dying from glass shards cutting you to pieces.

 

[Jag75]

Agreed . I dont do secondaries unless I'm racking over fruit . I dont check the gravity until the 19th day .

 

[jrgtr42]

Like they said - there's lots of excess energy used.
Secondary - don't bother unless you need a long-term bulk aging - on fruit, wood (I don't even transfer for that) or souring.
I check my gravity when I finish the boil, then 2 weeks + later - I typically leave it for 3 weeks in fermentation.
I will ususally check on say, Wednesday of the week I plan to bottle / keg, then again as I;m prepping. Only once has the gravities not been the same.
Also, I use a refractometer for gravity - just takes a couple drops rather than 6 or 8 ounces of a typical jar.
With a conversion calculator (I use Brewers Friend) I get spot on gravity.


What are the time constraints that you are working around? brew day timing? Bottling? Cleaning?
Most of brewing is just waiting around for stuff to happen.
If you give us an idea what you are looking to accomplish, we can help streamline processes.

 

[RM-MN]

Get a bucket fermenter as they come with handles for safe carrying and have a wide opening for easy cleaning. They have flat bottoms so they don't need a separate stand and can be set down anywhere that is near flat. Forget secondaries as they are not needed. Leave your beer alone until near bottling time, then take two hydrometer readings separated by a couple days. Make notes on what the expected final gravity should be in case your fermentation stalls. You will know on the first reading if you have one. I typically leave my beer in the fermenter for 2 to 4 weeks and it is nearly always done by then.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

When you say "save time" I assume you mean you want to brew your batches with less time spent in brewing, not necessarily waiting for the fermentation to complete.

Racking from primary to secondary doesn't really cost you a lot of time, but perhaps you can look into ways to make your brew day shorter.

Extract brewing takes a lot less time than all grain, and I've read some good success stories with no-boil brewing.
Shorter mashes and less-than-hour boils are also workable options.
A really good chiller like the "hydra" cut down a lot on cooling times.

If it truly is a question of reducing the time from grain to glass, smaller beers (lower OG) take less time to ferment and some describe successes getting a beer done and drinkable in a week with a smaller beer, lots of yeast, and force carbing in kegs with higher CO2 pressure.

Hope this helps!

 

[mongoose33]

About the tilt: You may get a fairly long-distance range with the tilt using the FastFerment. My conical is stainless and it really cuts down the range of the bluetooth signal.

There's a "repeater" they sell to increase the range of the tilt, and it does do that. Costs $60 IIRC, though you can obviate that purchase by simply going down stairs and using your phone next to it.

I love the TILT. It's a pricey thing, but it works well for me. It's a little less accurate at the very high end, but I'm always within a point or so on the low end. And most importantly, it tells me when I'm close to being done, and when the reading doesn't change for a few days.

 

[Soulshine2]

Due to time constraints I was ready to give up the hobby, but I don't think I can. After some reading I have came up with some things that may save some time.
I have looked into the fastferment fermenter it wound save time racking to a secondary and cleaning two carboys plus save yeast which saves me a trip to the store. I will have to fill it upstairs then transport it to the root cellar but I think if I get 2 stands and a carrying handle it would be as easy as a carboy.
I also looked at the tilt hydrometer that may cut down on taking many SG readings. I do use a wireless thermometer in the cellar so I assume this may also connect upstairs.
I do enjoy all the time I spend brewing but life changes and I need to save time. Plus I tried some from the store the other day and it's very expensive and basically tastes awful. I guess I'm just used to good old fashioned homebrew.
Any thoughts or experiences on this equipment?

i dont do a secondary unless Im adding fruit...
i acquired a digital refractometer , instead of pulling 6 oz of wort/beer, i only need a drop or two on the lens to get a reading.
youre going to carry 2 full carboys with handles? I would seriously urge you not to , those handles are not designed to carry a full carboy and the glass is stressed a lot doing so too. you have the worry of broken glass and 5-6 gallons of wort are going to be heavy . Im 52 and i use a 2 wheeled dolly to move my carboys. it sloshes O2 into it as I transport it to the fermentation area.
My brew day is consistently 6 hrs . Its my hobby and an enjoyable pastime , not something to do while doing something else.

 

[fun4stuff]

The best ways to save time would be to:

1) switch to BIAB
2) switch to kegging
3) don’t do secondaries
4) only take gravity after 7+ days right before you keg.

 

[kh54s10]

The best ways to save time would be to:

1) switch to BIAB
2) switch to kegging
3) don’t do secondaries
4) only take gravity after 7+ days right before you keg.

This except wait longer than the 7 days - just to be sure the fermentation is done. If you keg it really doesn't matter but if you bottle and fermentation is not complete you risk bottle bombs.

And Extract brewing is even faster. Though more expensive.

 

[mongoose33]

The best ways to save time would be to:

1) switch to BIAB

I miss the days of BIAB. I'm all-electric now with all sorts of bells and whistles, Spike conical, pumps, glycol, all that stuff. A good brew day for me is about 5 hours.

I could do BIAB in 3.5 hours easy, and there's only that one kettle to clean.

2) switch to kegging

Going to have to disagree that this is necessarily faster. There's cleaning the kegs, cleaning the beer lines.... For me, the better reason for kegging is to have draft beer on tap.

3) don’t do secondaries

It's just absolutely amazing to me that kit instructions still tell new brewers to do this. What a waste of time unless A) you need to free up the primary fermenter for more beer, B) you're aging a long time, or C) perhaps adding adjuncts like fruit.

I stopped doing secondaries after about my 2nd or 3rd beer, never looked back.

4) only take gravity after 7+ days right before you keg.

Even as much as 14 days (I know that's the "+"). The yeast will be done when it's done, and it doesn't know if you're taking a gravity reading.

That said, it is so darned hard for new brewers to just leave well-enough alone. I sure couldn't. I've got to know what's going on, and just waiting? That's not what I signed up for!

Of all the things new brewers have to learn, processes, vocabulary (sparge? tun? hydrometer?), cleaninn, sanitizing, bottling, and on and on......the single most difficult thing for new brewers to learn is.....Patience.

Hard for experienced brewers to learn that, too.

 

[fun4stuff]

My name here should be lazy brewer... i only got about half way through bottling my first batch of beer years ago before i had enough and went out and bought a kegging system for an old fridge i already had.

I’d rather clean and fill a few kegs than clean and fill 50+ bottles. Takes like 20 mins to clean and fill a keg and the cleaning part is mostly hands off using a keg washer.

I quit cleaning my lines years ago as well. With the cost of beer line being so cheap, i just replace the lines every 3-6 months. Although i did just buy a better submersible pump, so maybe I’ll give it another go.

With kegging it doesn’t really matter if your exactly at FG. As long as I’m with in a few points, i keg it whenever is most convenient or when i need the beer. Sometimes that’s 1 week... sometimes it’s 1 month.

 

[mongoose33]

My name here should be lazy brewer... i only got about half way through bottling my first batch of beer years ago before i had enough and went out and bought a kegging system for an old fridge i already had.

I’d rather clean and fill a few kegs than clean and fill 50+ bottles. Takes like 20 mins to clean and fill a keg and the cleaning part is mostly hands off using a keg washer.

I quit cleaning my lines years ago as well. With the cost of beer line being so cheap, i just replace the lines every 3-6 months. Although i did just buy a better submersible pump, so maybe I’ll give it another go.

With kegging it doesn’t really matter if your exactly at FG. As long as I’m with in a few points, i keg it whenever is most convenient or when i need the beer. Sometimes that’s 1 week... sometimes it’s 1 month.

I suspect that for most people the cleaning the bottles is the worst part of bottling. I just clean mine in the dishwasher. I still bottle from time to time, off the taps of the keezer or using a picnic tap, so I have bottles to clean.

I triple-rinse them when emptying, then often add a little water and let them soak a while. Then into the dishwasher they go. I just have to ensure the sprayers can get up inside them. Never had any issues with them

 

[NewJersey]

45 minute mash
45 minute boil
eBIAB- I feel like this CAN be the simplest thing in the world. It CAN be a pot with NO valves or ports at all. Boil and dump into all into fermenter. It can also be PID and recirculated with a pump.
Kegging
Secondaries are for the 90s
Immersion chillers aren't the fastest, but they are the easiest to use and the fastest to CLEAN
The tilt is awesome as well as an inkbird for temp control.

 

[mongoose33]

45 minute mash
45 minute boil
eBIAB- I feel like this CAN be the simplest thing in the world. It CAN be a pot with NO valves or ports at all. Boil and dump into all into fermenter. It can also be PID and recirculated with a pump.
Kegging
Secondaries are for the 90s
Immersion chillers aren't the fastest, but they are the easiest to use and the fastest to CLEAN
The tilt is awesome as well as an inkbird for temp control.

Jaded Hydra immersion chiller IS the fastest in the world (I think ). I could take a 5.5 gallon batch of boiling wort down to 70 degrees in 4 minutes.

I miss that.....now i have a stainless steel counterflow chiller which is slower.....

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Due to time constraints I was ready to give up the hobby, but I don't think I can.

Looks like you don't have time, but are willing spend some money on the hobby.

When you say "save time" I assume you mean you want to brew your batches with less time spent in brewing, not necessarily waiting for the fermentation to complete.

I was thinking along these lines also. So a couple of resources to consider:

If one has an AHA membership, there are a couple of recent (2017, 2018) Homebrew Con presentations on brewing quicker or brewing when one doesn't have a lot of time. Don't overlook the "no boil" (pasteurize) recipes that @Steveruch wrote about in recent Zymurgy articles (July 2019, Jan 2020).

The book Simple Homebrewing: Great Beer, Less Work, More Fun (2019) is another good source of ideas.

 

[HopSing]

The biggest time saver I've implemented is "univessel" brewing. I mash (BIAB), boil, and ferment in the same kettle. I wash the mash/boil/fermenter kettle once after I keg the batch. Since my fermenter gets boiled for an hour, I'm confident it's sanitized. I was worried not separating the wort from the break material would impact the final beer. It does not, even after a 3 week fermentation schedule. I use a stainless hop spider to keep hops out. Also harvesting yeast is a breeze. I also monitor fermentation temps by using a piece of painters tape to tape the temperature probe to the side of the kettle and cover it with some insulation material. Temp difference is < 1/2 degree F. No thermowell needed. I've also discovered that I can control fermentation temps by putting the kettle/fermenter into a tub with a few inches of water. The temp of the fermentation won't be more than 5 degrees F above the water temp even during active fermentation. It's also real easy to move the full fermenter, unlike a glass carboy.

With this change, I'm able to get multiple brews done in a single day or do a single batch in under 4 hours including milling grains.

~HopSing.

 

[mongoose33]

The biggest time saver I've implemented is "univessel" brewing. I mash (BIAB), boil, and ferment in the same kettle. I wash the mash/boil/fermenter kettle once after I keg the batch. Since my fermenter gets boiled for an hour, I'm confident it's sanitized. I was worried not separating the wort from the break material would impact the final beer. It does not, even after a 3 week fermentation schedule. I use a stainless hop spider to keep hops out. Also harvesting yeast is a breeze. I also monitor fermentation temps by using a piece of painters tape to tape the temperature probe to the side of the kettle and cover it with some insulation material. Temp difference is < 1/2 degree F. No thermowell needed. I've also discovered that I can control fermentation temps by putting the kettle/fermenter into a tub with a few inches of water. The temp of the fermentation won't be more than 5 degrees F above the water temp even during active fermentation. It's also real easy to move the full fermenter, unlike a glass carboy.

With this change, I'm able to get multiple brews done in a single day or do a single batch in under 4 hours including milling grains.

~HopSing.

I'll bite--what vessel are you using for this? Just a boil kettle? What are the valves like or do you not use them on your kettle?

Pics would be nice.....

 

[Soulshine2]

I miss the days of BIAB. I'm all-electric now with all sorts of bells and whistles, Spike conical, pumps, glycol, all that stuff. A good brew day for me is about 5 hours.

I could do BIAB in 3.5 hours easy, and there's only that one kettle to clean.



Going to have to disagree that this is necessarily faster. There's cleaning the kegs, cleaning the beer lines.... For me, the better reason for kegging is to have draft beer on tap.



It's just absolutely amazing to me that kit instructions still tell new brewers to do this. What a waste of time unless A) you need to free up the primary fermenter for more beer, B) you're aging a long time, or C) perhaps adding adjuncts like fruit.

I stopped doing secondaries after about my 2nd or 3rd beer, never looked back.



Even as much as 14 days (I know that's the "+"). The yeast will be done when it's done, and it doesn't know if you're taking a gravity reading.

That said, it is so darned hard for new brewers to just leave well-enough alone. I sure couldn't. I've got to know what's going on, and just waiting? That's not what I signed up for!

Of all the things new brewers have to learn, processes, vocabulary (sparge? tun? hydrometer?), cleaninn, sanitizing, bottling, and on and on......the single most difficult thing for new brewers to learn is.....Patience.

Hard for experienced brewers to learn that, too.

agreed. i have only done 2 secondaries, ever. one was the coconut toasted choc coffee porter and the other was the blackberry berlinner kettle sour which i guess technically wasnt even a secondary , more of a tertiary since it involved the souring ,the fermenting and the fruiting.

 

[fun4stuff]

I'll bite--what vessel are you using for this? Just a boil kettle? What are the valves like or do you not use them on your kettle?

Pics would be nice.....

chapman makes a univessel fermenter that isn’t too expensive.

 

[kh54s10]

I suspect that for most people the cleaning the bottles is the worst part of bottling. I just clean mine in the dishwasher. I still bottle from time to time, off the taps of the keezer or using a picnic tap, so I have bottles to clean.

I triple-rinse them when emptying, then often add a little water and let them soak a while. Then into the dishwasher they go. I just have to ensure the sprayers can get up inside them. Never had any issues with them

View attachment 663596

In reality your cleaning is being done before you put the bottles in he dishwasher. (The triple rinse and then soak.) I sincerely doubt that you can be certain to get the dishwasher sprays up into the bottle completely. Then the heat is doing most of the work of sanitizing, but if there is any stuck on crud you are in trouble.

 

[mongoose33]

In reality your cleaning is being done before you put the bottles in he dishwasher. (The triple rinse and then soak.) I sincerely doubt that you can be certain to get the dishwasher sprays up into the bottle completely. Then the heat is doing most of the work of sanitizing, but if there is any stuck on crud you are in trouble.

I always inspect them anyway, but I position them so the jets have a shot at the open bottle. I'd already thought of the heat sanitizing the bottles, which is a failsafe anyway.

Before I do any bottling of a long term nature (meaning I'm not just bottling to take a few to a homebrew meeting, say), they all get spritz/rinsed with Star-San. Not going to overcome caked-on funk, but then there typically isn't any.

I have had a few bottles that looked sketchy before I put them in the dishwasher, but I simply tossed them rather than go there.

 

[fun4stuff]

For the few bottles i use these days, i rinse immediately after drinking and then later just spray out with dishwasher liquid soap (rinses easy without foaming up) and then starsan. Store them covered or upside down.

Years ago i used my dishwasher to clean bottles and it was more trouble than it was worth. I’d get small white speckles in the bottle (presumably dishwasher soap) that wouldn’t get rinsed out completely by the dishwasher and then would get baked onto the glass by the heat.... impossible to get off.

 

[HopSing]

I'll bite--what vessel are you using for this? Just a boil kettle? What are the valves like or do you not use them on your kettle?

Yup. Just a boil kettle. I have a tramontina proline 38-quart stainless steel stock pot that is built like a tank. Tri-Ply bottom, thick walls, solid lid, induction ready, and it is NSF Certified (whatever that's worth). I think I paid $80. It's a bit hard to find, but Tramontina will sell them direct or at least they use to. I also have a Bayou Classic 44-quart and it's a toy next to the Tramontina.

I have not poked any holes in the kettle yet. After fermentation is over, I rack to keg using a stainless 1/2 inch racking cane attached to silicone tubing, kept in place in the kettle by a large plastic spring clamp that I filed the tip to match the radius of the racking cane so it does not slide around. I added a small section of silicone tubing where the clamp sits on the racking cane for good measure. To clean, I simply back flush with the hot water and give it a good rinse. AutoSiphon works great too but I got sick of them leaking and cracking. That said, I will likely poke a hole at some point.

I seal the kettle using slit silicone tubing and a bunch of 1.5" binder clips. It works, but there are more elegant solutions out there. As @fun4stuff mentioned, Chapman sells a seal kit and I believe Anvil makes a kit to turn their kettles into a fermenter as well.

An added benefit is my entire brewery fits into a few large totes making it very portable and easy to store.

~HopSing.

 

[mongoose33]

In reality your cleaning is being done before you put the bottles in he dishwasher. (The triple rinse and then soak.) I sincerely doubt that you can be certain to get the dishwasher sprays up into the bottle completely. Then the heat is doing most of the work of sanitizing, but if there is any stuck on crud you are in trouble.

Just took a couple bottles out of the dishwasher. Note the drops on the insides of the bottles.

The spray is getting up in there.

 

[fun4stuff]

Just took a couple bottles out of the dishwasher. Note the drops on the insides of the bottles.

The spray is getting up in there.

View attachment 664040

It’s not a question whether the spray is getting up there a little, but whether it gets up there enough to rinse and clean it out without leaving anything else behind. Some of this depends on the quality of your dishwasher too. The last time i bothered with it, i had a real shitty dishwasher.

 

[mongoose33]

It’s not a question whether the spray is getting up there a little, but heather it gets up there enough to rinse and clean it out without leaving anything else behind. Some of this depends on the quality of your dishwasher too. The last time i bothered with it, i had a real poopyty dishwasher.

Mine does a pretty good job of it.

 

[HopSing]

Way off OP, but doesn't dishwasher detergent mess up head retention? Even if you don't add any detergent, there is plenty of residual detergent. Just run a cycle without any additional detergent and open the door mid-cycle and you'll see the suds. At least I do. Hence the reason I've never tried using the dishwasher as a bottle washer nor do I put my beer glasses in the dishwasher. Truth or another brewing myth?

~HopSing.

 

[mongoose33]

Way off OP, but doesn't dishwasher detergent mess up head retention? Even if you don't add any detergent, there is plenty of residual detergent. Just run a cycle without any additional detergent and open the door mid-cycle and you'll see the suds. At least I do. Hence the reason I've never tried using the dishwasher as a bottle washer nor do I put my beer glasses in the dishwasher. Truth or another brewing myth?

~HopSing.

Short answer: Nope.

I spritz the bottles with Star-San before I fill them (using a vinator) which isn't materially different than using a glass rinser prior to filling with beer.

Wow. You guys really don't like the idea of cleaning beer bottles in the dishwasher.

 

[TechFanMD]

Short answer: Nope.

I spritz the bottles with Star-San before I fill them (using a vinator) which isn't materially different than using a glass rinser prior to filling with beer.

Wow. You guys really don't like the idea of cleaning beer bottles in the dishwasher.

I hear people say that the water gets up in there....but it doesn't in a way with pressure to break anything free or in volume to rinse away, and what little bit that does go in may carry particles or detergent that doesn't get rinsed back out. The jets of water are small and semi random and you are magically expecting them to go in through a small hole (partially blocked with the peg that's holding them up) and then bend at an angle to rinse a volume enormously larger than the bottleneck.

I don't see huge negatives with the dishwasher - I just think it doesn't do much and has a chance to make them worse.

Try this sometime: Leave a bottle standing up with the mouth partially blocked by something like a bamboo skewer...and see how much water got in the bottle at the end. My bet is very little, and what did get in did not have much -if any- pressure behind it once it got past the first 1" of the mouth of the bottle.

A commercial style dishwasher would be a different story.

 

[fun4stuff]

I don’t see much point in using a dishwasher for bottles- especially if you’re only bottling a few beers here and there. It’s not saving you time or really accomplishing anything, except for maybe risking leaving detergent or other food particles behind within a he bottle.

It’s much faster to just rinse the bottle
Out immediately after using and then spraying it out with sanitizer with a spray bottle.

If I had a lot of clean bottles to sanitize all at once (and was all out of starsan), I’d use the oven and set to appropriate temperature and heat for the appropriate amount of time. If for some reason i didn’t have an oven, then I’d use a dishwasher without soap and rinse bottles on the sanitize setting and make sure the strainer in the bottom of the dishwasher was clean.

If i has a lot of old dirty bottles with dried crap in them, I’d soak them all in oxyclean and then rinse by hand.

 

[AzOr]

You could also split your brew days.
I mash one night and do my boil the next night.
It doesn’t really save time, however it does allow me brew during the week after the kiddos are sleeping.
I’ve even left my wort sitting on my patio for three days. It formed a pellicle but after boil it was delicious.

Maybe you could look into the Aussie no chill method combined with a Kveik strain.

 

[kh54s10]

Way off OP, but doesn't dishwasher detergent mess up head retention? Even if you don't add any detergent, there is plenty of residual detergent. Just run a cycle without any additional detergent and open the door mid-cycle and you'll see the suds. At least I do. Hence the reason I've never tried using the dishwasher as a bottle washer nor do I put my beer glasses in the dishwasher. Truth or another brewing myth?

~HopSing.

I don't know how the detergent would affect head retention in a beer after sanitizing the bottle and bottle conditioning.. But I can tell you that dishwasher detergent does mess up head retention. I put my beer glasses in the dishwasher. The first beer will have a little head that doesn't last long. The second beer has twice as much head and the third has twice as much as that.

 

[HopSing]

I can tell you that dishwasher detergent does mess up head retention. I put my beer glasses in the dishwasher. The first beer will have a little head that doesn't last long. The second beer has twice as much head and the third has twice as much as that.

So the moral of the story is IF you wash your beer glasses in the dishwasher the first 3 don't count. I think I can get on-board with that approach.

~HopSing.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

...If I had a lot of clean bottles to sanitize all at once (and was all out of starsan), I’d...

FWIW: I soak mine in the laundry tub with Oxy, then submerge them in my bottling bucket filled with StarSan for 3 minutes, then drain and fill. It's tedious but I keg most of my 3 gallon batches.