New Lalbrew Farmhouse yeast

[505-Brewer]

Today I kegged a 1.053 OG hoppy saison with Farmhouse (Amarillo and HBC 735 in the WP and DH, respectively) and it finished at 1.008. In the little sample I tasted it was hard to distinguish the yeast character with all the hops there, too, but it was very tasty. I’ll try to update once it’s carbed up, but so far I’m pleased!

That profile is exactly how I would describe my approach to Saison! Sound tasty.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Warning - you won't need as much priming sugar!

Generally true depending on one's process

I find 70 grams (medium carb) to 120 grams (highly carb) of dextrose works for me

I hit the keg headspace with 25 PSI mix the sugar in and top it off again with 25 PSI after mixing. I also use a spunding valve at the tail end of fermentation on my fermzilla at 3 PSI to keep positive pressure in the fermentator. So in my process there's already some CO2 in there from other sources.

Experiment with it and take notes on how it turns out. My process is now pretty dialed, but its for my specific process

 

[mac_1103]

Warning - you won't need as much priming sugar!

Actually you do.

Generally true depending on one's process

I find 70 grams (medium carb) to 120 grams (highly carb) of dextrose works for me

I hit the keg headspace with 25 PSI mix the sugar in and top it off again with 25 PSI after mixing. I also use a spunding valve at the tail end of fermentation on my fermzilla at 3 PSI to keep positive pressure in the fermentator. So in my process there's already some CO2 in there from other sources.

Unless you do things like this. Sure if you spund and then add additional CO2 from a tank you can use less priming sugar. But if you're just priming in a keg you're not magically going to get more CO2 from less sugar. The biochemistry and physics are the same.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Rainy weekend here, pitched one pack into what was meant to be a kostrizer type dark lager. All the colour comes from 120g Sinamar. I normally use 30g, but decided to push it as far as i was game.

Anyway i pitched at 23c, with my bucket buddy set to 28c. Should be at 28c in a few hours easily.

I'll also add 500g dextrose a few days in. I usually only do that for tripel, but i havent brewed a tripel for years. Its only a standard gravity beer, so the dextrose will only push it up to 5.5%.

Not really ideal to compare to my usual spelt saison, but i'm keen to try it out.

 

[Wuggly Ump]

I’ve tasted my hoppy saison now, and I think this yeast did a terrific job: even with the Amarillo and HBC 735 late hop character I’m getting nice saison-y phenols in the background, a dry sorta tart finish. It’s super refreshing and based on the feedback I’ve gotten I’m already thinking of rebrewing it in the summer.

 

[worlddivides]

I’ve tasted my hoppy saison now, and I think this yeast did a terrific job: even with the Amarillo and HBC 735 late hop character I’m getting nice saison-y phenols in the background, a dry sorta tart finish. It’s super refreshing and based on the feedback I’ve gotten I’m already thinking of rebrewing it in the summer.

Same for mine, which was bittered with EKG, had Hallertau Mittelfruh at 10 minutes, and then Amarillo at 1 minute and then dry hopped with Amarillo for 2-3 days before bottling. The Amarillo adds a nice refreshing flavor that plays nicely with the yeast character. I definitely think HBC 735 would go great with this kind of beer, so I can imagine how nice it tastes in yours.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Rainy weekend here, pitched one pack into what was meant to be a kostrizer type dark lager. All the colour comes from 120g Sinamar. I normally use 30g, but decided to push it as far as i was game.

Anyway i pitched at 23c, with my bucket buddy set to 28c. Should be at 28c in a few hours easily.

I'll also add 500g dextrose a few days in. I usually only do that for tripel, but i havent brewed a tripel for years. Its only a standard gravity beer, so the dextrose will only push it up to 5.5%.

Not really ideal to compare to my usual spelt saison, but i'm keen to try it out.

Its been about 30hrs and its going nuts, so i just added the sugar. I'll check it in 3 or 4 days and see where its at.

 

[TwitchellBrew]

I’ve tasted my hoppy saison now, and I think this yeast did a terrific job: even with the Amarillo and HBC 735 late hop character I’m getting nice saison-y phenols in the background, a dry sorta tart finish. It’s super refreshing and based on the feedback I’ve gotten I’m already thinking of rebrewing it in the summer.

Glad to hear others are having g success with this yeast! What temp did you ferment at and how many oz of hops? In mine I just used 2 oz of motueka and they come through nicely. I think this yeast will play nice with hops.

 

[Miraculix]

Yeah at the temp I fermented, this yeast is straight up saison. I’d agree that Abbaye is more suited to a dubbel.

I've had another one of the bottles to check how they develop and now it's clearly the mixed bottle, that was much nicer. The little acidity that the farmhouse brings to the table suits the beer very well, because the phenols of the abbey went a bit into the background in all bottles.

It just needed some time to shine.

 

[TwitchellBrew]

I've had another one of the bottles to check how they develop and now it's clearly the mixed bottle, that was much nicer. The little acidity that the farmhouse brings to the table suits the beer very well, because the phenols of the abbey went a bit into the background in all bottles.

It just needed some time to shine.

Yeah high gravity Belgian beers do take some time to develop for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience. I actually love blending yeasts for Belgian styles. My favorite ever was wlp550 blended with wlp810 but blending dry yeast is so much easier. May have to try this blend.

 

[Miraculix]

Yeah high gravity Belgian beers do take some time to develop for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience. I actually love blending yeasts for Belgian styles. My favorite ever was wlp550 blended with wlp810 but blending dry yeast is so much easier. May have to try this blend.

The abbaye alone is almost a bit too sweet for me. The farmhouse acidity balances this out nicely, although fg was almost identical.

 

[Halfakneecap]

My dark farmhouse. All the colour is from Sinimar, 130g in 5 gal, which is way more than i normally use. The bottle i have is old so i thought i'd use a lot.

Early tasting, but its really nice. Bit of a generic saisony aroma and flavour, which i quite like. Dry finish, and the sinimar adds mostly colour but a little roastiness. Very slight.

I will enjoy seeing how this develops.

So far very happy

Bonus, i found another sachet in the brewing fridge. Ill do a standard saison and see how it goes.

 

[Wuggly Ump]

Glad to hear others are having g success with this yeast! What temp did you ferment at and how many oz of hops? In mine I just used 2 oz of motueka and they come through nicely. I think this yeast will play nice with hops.

I fermented in the upper 70s and I think the beer reached the low 80s. For a 3 gallon batch I used 2 oz of dry hops.

 

[gaviga]

Actually you do.

Unless you do things like this. Sure if you spund and then add additional CO2 from a tank you can use less priming sugar. But if you're just priming in a keg you're not magically going to get more CO2 from less sugar. The biochemistry and physics are the same.

My experiences over the past 27 years of brewing are that you need less priming sugar to carbonate in a keg. You will have to serve under pressure, of course. But just enough to push your beer (~5 lbs).

 

[mac_1103]

My experiences over the past 27 years of brewing are that you need less priming sugar to carbonate in a keg.

I guess this will just never go away. A gram of glucose or sucrose yields exactly the same amount of CO2 when fermented in a keg as when fermented in a bottle. So where is the extra CO2 coming from? If you want x volumes of CO2 in your beer you need x grams of sugar. Period. If you use less sugar you get less carbonation. Period.

Of course, there are some places that additional CO2 could be coming from, such as kegging before primary fermentation is complete or cold crashing for a long time before kegging. But the biochemistry of fermentation is the same in a keg as it is in a bottle and the physics of CO2 dissolving in beer is the same in a keg as it is in a bottle.

You will have to serve under presdure, of course. But just enough to push your beer (~5 lbs).

No matter what level you carbonate to and no matter what method you carbonate with, the CO2 in the beer will equilibrate with the CO2 in the headspace within a couple of weeks. 5 PSI at 36F is just under 2 volumes. So maybe the reason behind your 27 years of using less sugar is just that you like less carbonation?

 

[gaviga]

I guess this will just never go away. A gram of glucose or sucrose yields exactly the same amount of CO2 when fermented in a keg as when fermented in a bottle. So where is the extra CO2 coming from? If you want x volumes of CO2 in your beer you need x grams of sugar. Period. If you use less sugar you get less carbonation. Period.

Of course, there are some places that additional CO2 could be coming from, such as kegging before primary fermentation is complete or cold crashing for a long time before kegging. But the biochemistry of fermentation is the same in a keg as it is in a bottle and the physics of CO2 dissolving in beer is the same in a keg as it is in a bottle.


No matter what level you carbonate to and no matter what method you carbonate with, the CO2 in the beer will equilibrate with the CO2 in the headspace within a couple of weeks. 5 PSI at 36F is just under 2 volumes. So maybe the reason behind your 27 years of using less sugar is just that you like less carbonation?

I respectfully disagree.

 

[mac_1103]

I respectfully disagree.

But you can't or won't tell us how it works?

What exactly do you disagree with? Do you believe that fermentation of glucose or sucrose in a keg yields more CO2 than it does in a bottle? Do you believe that CO2 dissolves in beer differently in a keg than it does in a bottle?

 

[gaviga]

But you can't or won't tell us how it works?

What exactly do you disagree with? Do you believe that fermentation of glucose or sucrose in a keg yields more CO2 than it does in a bottle? Do you believe that CO2 dissolves in beer differently in a keg than it does in a bottle?

From experience yes, the efficiency with natural carbonation in a keg is more efficient than in bottles. It's also more predictable since ypu are filling one vessel vs 48. BYO agrees with me : https://byo.com/article/bottling-kegging-bottling-kegging/#:~:text=The difference is that you,the bottom of the keg.
It has to do with the volume of beer being carbonated.

 

[mac_1103]

That's not an explanation of how it works and BYO is paywalled. Here's my experience - when I transfer 5 gallons of beer into a 5 gallon keg and add 5 ounces of corn sugar (which should give 2.55 volumes of CO2) and leave it at 70F for 2 weeks and check the pressure, it's always 28-30 PSI. The keg carbonation calculators say you need 29.6 PSI for 2.55 volumes at 70F.

 

[gaviga]

I'm sorry you can't see the explanation, but I know from experience that it's right. I really don't care what your calculator says - go ahead and carbonate however you like!

Have a great brewing day!

 

[mac_1103]

Well, I've been looking (for a long time) for an explanation of where this supposed extra efficiency (that I've never observed in my own experience) comes from. I've read plenty of articles that claim to explain it, and the arguments are always demonstrably incorrect. Maybe this article is different, but I'm not interested in paying for a subscription.

 

[Miraculix]

Well, I've been looking (for a long time) for an explanation of where this supposed extra efficiency (that I've never observed in my own experience) comes from. I've read plenty of articles that claim to explain it, and the arguments are always demonstrably incorrect. Maybe this article is different, but I'm not interested in paying for a subscription.

It's not, there's no explanation, just a statement. I can read it without paywall. Maybe because I'm in Europe?

 

[Snuffy]

You can absolutely keg carbonate at high volumes you just need longer lines with more restriction
I prime all my kegs with sugar nowadays and prime my Belgian ales around 3.2 volumes
Honestly for this style I don't even mind if it pours foamy. Normally if I pour a saison out of a bottle it foams up in my glass anyway
Foam is something I love about saisons

I like foam.

 

[dmtaylor]

Right or wrong, I use less priming sugar when priming a keg vs. bottles. Does it matter? I don't know. Am I seeing enough carbonation in my primed kegs? Yes.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I won’t pretend to know why, but when I used 5oz sugar in my kegs, I always get overcarbed beer. I reduced the amount to 4 oz. for a recent blonde ale and it still overcarbed. I have had it in the kegerator a couple weeks now, and have yet had to use much bottled CO₂. With my first pour, I just pull the prv first, then fill my mug. After the half-mug head disappears, I top it on up.
The beer is nice and clear, and quite delicious, but here initially, a pain to deal with.
I guess I am saving on bottled gas, so there is that.

 

[SFC Rudy]

Right or wrong, I use less priming sugar when priming a keg vs. bottles. Does it matter? I don't know. Am I seeing enough carbonation in my primed kegs? Yes.

I used to do that then I brewed 6 gallons of cream ale and split it between two 3 gallon kegs. Used a priming sugar calculator and primed one with 1/2 the priming sugar and the other with the full amount. Used pressure gauges to track, and the keg with 1/2 the priming sugar created 1/2 the pressure of the full primed keg.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I’m trying a compromise. In spite of all the reasoning here by folks much smarter than I am, my experience just delivers overcarbed kegs when I try natural carbonation.
So here’s the plan. I am only putting 7 oz of corn sugar into my 10 gallon keg of Kölsch. My hope is that this will get me most of the way to carbonation; a little short is ok, but hopefully not overcarbed. I can finish it out on the bottle before serving. I will thank the yeast for their continued service and avoid the hassles of dealing with an inch of liquid beer in a mug full of foam.
Wish me luck!

 

[Miraculix]

I think the most possible culprits are two possibilities. First, serving pressure is not taken into the calculation the correct way, so there's actually more carbonation in the keg, it's just not all from the sugar. Second possibility, the serving lines create more foam with less carbonation than filling the glass from a bottle. This would mean the carbonation level is actually the same, is just looks more carbed, because of the additional foam.

I can actually see the second possibility every time I have a pilsner from tap here in Germany. The beer is significantly flatter than it's bottle counterpart from the same brand. Foam is often even better from tap though.

 

[Shenanigans]

Getting back to the yeast.
Is there a Beersmith file for it somewhere, I dont seem to see it in my list of ingredients?
I have all others from Lallemand.
I'm thinking of trying it in a De Ranke XX Bitter clone attempt, like below but with the farmhouse yeast instead.
I already tried with with a MJ Wit yeast and T-58 which were both good but I think the farmhouse has the potential to make an even better beer.
There's a lot of discussion scattered throughout the internet on what yeast to use; T-58 and Wit yeasts don't attenuate enough and traditional Saison yeasts go too far so maybe this will hit the sweet spot. Staying true to the information given from the brewery they use 100% pilsner so no cheating allowed by drying it out with a sugar addition

 

[worlddivides]

I just tried another bottle of this, about 7 weeks after I brewed it, and I gotta say I love this yeast. At least with the way I brewed it, it's the saison flavors I love in just the right proportions. Granted, I used a decent amount of table sugar to make up for the fact that it doesn't have the STA-1 gene, but the dryness and hop bitterness is amazing (I know "bitterness" isn't an aspect of the yeast itself, but the dryness and esters of the yeast really help the bitterness, which is 28 IBUs in my case, really come out in a nice pleasant way).

This is definitely a yeast I plan to use again. Maybe a lot of times more.