New eBIAB build, questions about controls

[The_Bishop]

@BeardedBrews - You are awesome. I owe you a beer, your tweaked settings worked perfectly!

 

[Beernip]

Cool build! Does the controller switch back and forth from the PID to the Power controller?

 

[The_Bishop]

The yellow switch below, in the middle, allows me to switch between the two controllers.

 

[The_Bishop]

Well, @Bobby_M - I ended up having to install the temperature probe in the kettle wall, anyway. The DSPR110 needs it that way.

Be seeing you soon for a 1/2" NPT silver solder fitting...

 

[rjjc]

Nice build! I'm just starting to get my parts together for a similar set up. I ordered the Ezboil controller (back ordered) and big pot so far. Question... Isn't the ezboil capable of managing the temp of the mash and recirulation? I see you've added a PID for this function. What were your design thoughts on doing this? Should I be considering a PID as well for my set up? I'm new to all of this, so trying to get this all sorted out before I end up with a shelf full of parts I won't need. I accidentally ordered a heat sink for a 3 phase SSR, not sure if I can make it work, don't see why not.

 

[The_Bishop]

The new DSPR110 has a mashing function that works great. When I originally built my panel the only boil controller available was the dspr100, which didn't have a mashing function. Right now, the PID mostly serves as a temperature display for my whirlpool return.

 

[doug293cz]

Nice build! I'm just starting to get my parts together for a similar set up. I ordered the Ezboil controller (back ordered) and big pot so far. Question... Isn't the ezboil capable of managing the temp of the mash and recirulation? I see you've added a PID for this function. What were your design thoughts on doing this? Should I be considering a PID as well for my set up? I'm new to all of this, so trying to get this all sorted out before I end up with a shelf full of parts I won't need. I accidentally ordered a heat sink for a 3 phase SSR, not sure if I can make it work, don't see why not.

The heatsink doesn't really care what type of device you use it on. It will work fine. You may have to drill mounting holes in different places, if the heatsink has them pre-drilled for a different style of SSR package.

Brew on

 

[beergutbrew]

The new DSPR110 has a mashing function that works great. When I originally built my panel the only boil controller available was the dspr100, which didn't have a mashing function. Right now, the PID mostly serves as a temperature display for my whirlpool return.

I think I'll build my panel without the PID and just use the DSPR110.

@doug293cz Do you have a schematic with just the DSPR110 for mash and boil control?
Power on DSPR, power on element, power on pump button/light SW1.
I had bought a SWM-DR-C switch breaker for a different project, would that work instead of a key switch SW3?

 

[doug293cz]

I think I'll build my panel without the PID and just use the DSPR110.

@doug293cz Do you have a schematic with just the DSPR110 for mash and boil control?
Power on DSPR, power on element, power on pump button/light SW1.
I had bought a SWM-DR-C switch breaker for a different project, would that work instead of a key switch SW3?

Do you want to use a contactor or toggle switch for the element power control? I'm not familiar with the SWM-DR-C. I'll have to look it up to see if it works in the application.

Brew on

 

[beergutbrew]

Do you want to use a contactor or toggle switch for the element power control? I'm not familiar with the SWM-DR-C. I'll have to look it up to see if it works in the application.

Brew on

Probably a contactor.

 

[doug293cz]

...

I had bought a SWM-DR-C switch breaker for a different project, would that work instead of a key switch SW3?

Which version of the SWM-DR-C do you have. You need the 2 pole, 32A (or 50A or 60A) for your application (single element, 5500W.)

Brew on

 

[beergutbrew]

Which version of the SWM-DR-C do you have. You need the 2 pole, 32A (or 50A or 60A) for your application (single element, 5500W.)

Brew on

I have the 2 pole 32A

 

[doug293cz]

I think I'll build my panel without the PID and just use the DSPR110.

@doug293cz Do you have a schematic with just the DSPR110 for mash and boil control?
Power on DSPR, power on element, power on pump button/light SW1.
I had bought a SWM-DR-C switch breaker for a different project, would that work instead of a key switch SW3?

I think the following will do what you want.



Brew on

 

[beergutbrew]

@doug239cz Thanks for your help. After brewing too much in this summer heat in my garage, the decision to go electric was easy.

@The_Bishop Thanks for starting this thread/conversation!!

Time to start ordering parts and wiring up. :rockin:

 

[wholegraineggos]

Hey all,

I'm conceptualizing a panel build for my nascent BIAC system and I'm at a crossroads with the decision on whether or not to go with a master power on/off switch. I've already got the low voltage stuff figured out.

On the high-voltage side, I'll be using a BCS-460 for temp control and monitoring, and my intention is to have this always be powered on. There'll be a 30A receptacle for a 5500W heating element and a 15A receptacle for a Chugger pump. Current plan is to have the power cord enter the panel through a watertight cable gland (my last panel build was a Kal derivative, and I never even once unplugged the power cord from the panel in almost two years).

I'm going to use a 240V 30A contactor, controlled by a toggle switch, to control power availability to the element, with the BCS providing PID control via SSR. The pump's power will be controlled by just a toggle switch.

My question is, since I want the BCS to be always-on, and my receptacles will already have either a contactor or switch controlling power availability, do I even need a master on/off power switch? Seems redundant, and I know that's not always a bad thing, but I really don't see the benefit it will bring compared to the risk of opening up more potential points of failure.

Would definitely appreciate any advice! Thanks.

 

[doug293cz]

Hey all,

I'm conceptualizing a panel build for my nascent BIAC system and I'm at a crossroads with the decision on whether or not to go with a master power on/off switch. I've already got the low voltage stuff figured out.

On the high-voltage side, I'll be using a BCS-460 for temp control and monitoring, and my intention is to have this always be powered on. There'll be a 30A receptacle for a 5500W heating element and a 15A receptacle for a Chugger pump. Current plan is to have the power cord enter the panel through a watertight cable gland (my last panel build was a Kal derivative, and I never even once unplugged the power cord from the panel in almost two years).

I'm going to use a 240V 30A contactor, controlled by a toggle switch, to control power availability to the element, with the BCS providing PID control via SSR. The pump's power will be controlled by just a toggle switch.

My question is, since I want the BCS to be always-on, and my receptacles will already have either a contactor or switch controlling power availability, do I even need a master on/off power switch? Seems redundant, and I know that's not always a bad thing, but I really don't see the benefit it will bring compared to the risk of opening up more potential points of failure.

Would definitely appreciate any advice! Thanks.

The redundancy could be useful if your contactor's contacts ever welded closed.

Brew on

 

[wholegraineggos]

The redundancy could be useful if your contactor's contacts ever welded closed.

Brew on

Hah, I suppose so. If the second contactor welds shut at the same time, then after prying the cord out of the wall, I'm heading down to buy some powerball tickets.

Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

Hah, I suppose so. If the second contactor welds shut at the same time, then after prying the cord out of the wall, I'm heading down to buy some powerball tickets.

Thanks!

You talking about two separate contactors in series, or the two contacts on a single double pole contactor? Double pole contactors often (usually?) have mechanical linkage (common armature) between the contacts, so that if one contact welds, the other is also stuck in place.

And, if you're not looking for advice, why ask the question? If you have already made up your mind, just get on with it.

Brew on

 

[wholegraineggos]

You talking about two separate contactors in series, or the two contacts on a single double pole contactor? Double pole contactors often (usually?) have mechanical linkage (common armature) between the contacts, so that if one contact welds, the other is also stuck in place.

And, if you're not looking for advice, why ask the question? If you have already made up your mind, just get on with it.

Brew on

Yeah, I meant two separate contactors. One for a main power switch and one for the element control switch. Was attempting a joke about the unlikelihood of both separate contactors welding shut at the same time. I do appreciate the advice.

 

[doug293cz]

Yeah, I meant two separate contactors. One for a main power switch and one for the element control switch. Was attempting a joke about the unlikelihood of both separate contactors welding shut at the same time. I do appreciate the advice.

I agree, two separate contactors is a sufficient level of redundancy.

Brew on

 

[ALExanderH]

@BeardedBrews - You are awesome. I owe you a beer, your tweaked settings worked perfectly!

Great thread! I'm in the early days with a almost identical system, using a 57 liter kettle with a element and grain basket - still trying to figure out the Auber 2352 settings also so I will give those from BeardedBrews a try. I currently have my kettle insulated with reflectix, do you guys think it's positive or negative for the PID's accuracy?

 

[The_Bishop]

Honestly? After monkeying around with the PID for far too long, I changed it out for the Auber DSPR120. The PID was having an issue maintaining temps without overshoot, and varying grain bills would cause havoc. What would work in one brew was off on something with a larger grain bill.

Since I swapped in the DSPR120, mash temps have been spot on, every time. No overshooting. Temperature ramps are nice and smooth. Also, unlike the 2 second firing cycle of the PID, the DSPR120 runs on a 60hz cycle (matches the power cycle of the main). Coming up to a boil is nice and non-dramatic, too. When switched to boil mode, it will apply 100% power until it gets to roughly 200f, then switch to whatever power percentage you set it for. It will also beep when it hits 200f to let you know the boil is close to starting.

Aside from changing out the PID for the DSPR, the only other change needed was to mount the temperature probe in the kettle.

 

[trav77]

Thanks for the build thread! I'm planning a similar build with a DSPR120. Here's the schematic (modified from doug293cz):

The_Bishop: in your OP hardware picture where did you get that gnarly flexible recirc arm? My setup is going to be pretty close to your build with the possible addition of a dedicated whirlpool fitting @ the ~4 gallon mark.

 

[trav77]

Also panel design. Pretty simple.

 

[The_Bishop]

I like the panel layout!

The flex line is LocLine. Picked it up from brewhardware.com - Bobby is awesome to deal with!

 

[boomguy]

Honestly? After monkeying around with the PID for far too long, I changed it out for the Auber DSPR120. The PID was having an issue maintaining temps without overshoot, and varying grain bills would cause havoc. What would work in one brew was off on something with a larger grain bill.

Since I swapped in the DSPR120, mash temps have been spot on, every time. No overshooting. Temperature ramps are nice and smooth. Also, unlike the 2 second firing cycle of the PID, the DSPR120 runs on a 60hz cycle (matches the power cycle of the main). Coming up to a boil is nice and non-dramatic, too. When switched to boil mode, it will apply 100% power until it gets to roughly 200f, then switch to whatever power percentage you set it for. It will also beep when it hits 200f to let you know the boil is close to starting.

Aside from changing out the PID for the DSPR, the only other change needed was to mount the temperature probe in the kettle.

After changing out the pid to the DSPR 120, do you feel that your temp sensor could have remained in your original position instead of mounting it in the kettle wall?