NEIPA Yeast in non-hoppy beer

[abmyshkin]

The descriptions of many NEIPA yeasts suggest the yeasts accentuate flavor and aroma hop additions, but few provide specifics on the flavor characteristics NEIPA yeasts impart themselves. I am interested in understanding the flavor profiles of these without any/a lot of finishing hops to hide behind. I am curious to know whether anyone has a suggestion on where to find good information, or run split batch trials using a light ale-type recipe to really get a feel for how much and the type of flavors these yeasts impart. I will likely run my own trials, but I'm hoping not to start from 0.

 

[Jag75]

Welcome to HBT !
Seems cool . Keep us posted with your results .

 

[micraftbeer]

Not really that helpful to you, but in a similar vein, I came across a rye ale recipe that used Wyeast 1318. I thought, "Cool, I can see that yeast in a totally different style." It was gross. There was this hot alcohol aspect to it that came across as watery.

I think the hops must balance that yeast tartness in a NEIPA recipe. So based on that one recipe experience, if you're staying away from hops, I would also avoid a malt bill that that's sort of "in the middle" with flavor. I think if you went very pale, it wouldn't clash with the yeast. Or if you went really heavy like with dark malts, it might push the yeast character to the background into more of a supporting role that might be interesting.

 

[Golddiggie]

I use Wyeast 1318 in most of my batches. From the English ordinary bitter to my English IPA to my stouts. The yeast gives a positive contribution to them. Provided you treat it properly.
https://wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/london-ale-iii
I typically ferment in the middle of it's temperature range (70F) and at about 5psi pressure (using Spike CF10 conical fermenters currently, so rated for 15psi). IME, the info on the Wyeast page is accurate for what flavors the yeast will give you.
"It is a true top cropping strain with a fruity, very light and softly balanced palate."

IME, you need to make sure the rest of your recipe is good. As I mentioned, I've used it in several of my recipes to date without any negatives. I was using both 1318 and 1335, but found that 1318 could take over for 1335, so I only needed to keep a single strain going for the majority. I am using a different yeast for a coming imperial stout. But that's only because I plan to get the batch to about 11%. I decided to go with 1728 since I know it can go to at least 12% without issue (done it before, went to 12.5%).

 

[micraftbeer]

Sorry, I had to go back and edit my post. My phone decided I meant "true ale" instead of "rye ale". So the combination of 1318 and rye was not a good one on my palate.

 

[abmyshkin]

Not really that helpful to you, but in a similar vein, I came across a rye ale recipe that used Wyeast 1318. I thought, "Cool, I can see that yeast in a totally different style." It was gross. There was this hot alcohol aspect to it that came across as watery.

I think the hops must balance that yeast tartness in a NEIPA recipe. So based on that one recipe experience, if you're staying away from hops, I would also avoid a malt bill that that's sort of "in the middle" with flavor. I think if you went very pale, it wouldn't clash with the yeast. Or if you went really heavy like with dark malts, it might push the yeast character to the background into more of a supporting role that might be interesting.

Thanks. This is helpful. In a convoluted way, the origins of my inquiry are grounded in saison yeasts. I really enjoy the character the yeasts impart, but I wanted to dial it back to let more malt character come through with rustic/farm-grainy recipe (that may include rye, FWIW). I found the descriptions of the IPA yeasts (Verdant, Imperial Barbarian/Citrus, Omega IPA yeasts, slightly fruity/tart/funky etc) were getting me close. I understand many of these IPA-geared yeast strains have origins with British yeasts but didn't want the beer to be too British. I want the yeast to add to the complexity but compliment the grains, and I don't want hops to clutter the flavor. Thus the question of how much flavor these yeasts really impart - are they setting the stage for the malt or hurling fruit bombs? You've given me food for thought, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Golddiggie]

IMO/IME, Wyeast 1318 will be subtle in what it gives, depending on how you let it ferment. Ferment cooler, or under pressure and you can minimize the ester contribution. That's one of the reasons why I've reduced the PSI level for my fermentations. I want more of that to come through. Especially in my pale ales. It's more subdued in the stouts due to the grain bills for those recipes.

If you want more malt character to come through, then adjust your grist, or the mash temp to make that happen.
Also from the Wyeast page for the yeast strain:
" Originating from a traditional London brewery, this yeast has a wonderful malt and hop profile."

 

[shoreman]

I used Conan (omega dipa) in my rye mild and got some great apricot and classic British fruity esters from that yeast. It dropped clear in like 2weeks too- you might start there and try to nail the ideal ferm temps.

I think you have to nail the temps on these yeasts if you are going for yeast flavor - and that differs between the British yeasts.

I’ve been using verdant ipa in all of my milds and bitters and it also throws great esters - one of the best British dry yeasts IMO.

 

[abmyshkin]

I used Conan (omega dipa) in my rye mild and got some great apricot and classic British fruity esters from that yeast. It dropped clear in like 2weeks too- you might start there and try to nail the ideal ferm temps.

I think you have to nail the temps on these yeasts if you are going for yeast flavor - and that differs between the British yeasts.

I’ve been using verdant ipa in all of my milds and bitters and it also throws great esters - one of the best British dry yeasts IMO.

Verdant and O-DIPA were on my short list for sure. I'd be happy with a light apricot or peach flavor. Perhaps I'd start around 55 F and ramp up to 65 if necessary. Thanks!