NEIPA recipe advice?

[Djangotet]

I am brand new to brewing and my first NEIPA got ruined because I messed up the mash. I had friends and family try it. It wasn't good, so I want to redeem myself this time. I created this recipe below and I am wondering if anyone has any advice for how I could improve it or if you think it will turn out nicely? Thank you very much!

The brands of the grains are not exact, I am more focused on the actual type of grains/ percentages for now. I chose to use different ratios of hops because I didn't want the stronger ones to take over the weaker ones. I chose CRYO hops for the two stronger flavored hops and I will be using standard pellets for Simcoe. The CRYO hops will reduce the amount of vegetal matter and the larger amount of Simcoe will add some vegetal matter so that it tastes more well rounded. I calculated how much of each hop I wanted, then I cut the CRYO hop amount in half. I chose to add corn sugar because Mosaic tends to lend a sweeter taste and I wanted to dry up the finish for that reason. My whirlpool hops will actually be added in stages, half at 203 then the other half below 185. The First Wort bitter hops will add about 10 -15 IBUs for balance. Amarillo was a last minute add-on, I am buying 1oz bags and I needed 1 more oz for dry hopping. So I figured why not add one more variety and that's why Amarillo is only being used in the dry hop stage.

 

[JohnSand]

I haven't made that style. While most brewers are excited to try their hand at recipe creation, I think it is best to start brewing with established recipes, like learning to cook. In that way you can learn the process and various ingredient contributions.

 

[AlexKay]

It looks fine, but here are a few questions and suggestions:

• What's your batch size? It looks a little thin for 5 gallons, a little heavy for 2.5. Do you have a predicted OG?
• What yeast are you using?
• Highly aromatic cryo hops are wasted as bittering additions. It's your money, but results will be equally good with something like Magnum or CTZ. Also, are you only boiling for 30 minutes? Why?
• Whirlpooling at 203 F will definitely add both bitterness and DMS. Why so high? I usually do my hop stand at 160 F or so. I don't think there's a benefit to doing hop stands at multiple temperatures.
• You'll learn more as a brewer if you use fewer ingredients. You're not going to pick out the specific contributions of Simcoe and Amarillo and Citra and Mosaic, so you're not going to learn what each one brings to the table. I use up to two flavor/aroma hops in a batch; when I started brewing I used one.
• I'm anti-Carapils. I don't think it does anything, or anything good. The oats will provide plenty of body and foam.
• The sugar is not going to do anything for you in that amount. Why add sugar at all, especially if you want something full-bodied?
• NEIPA is a hard style to start out with, mostly because the quality really suffers if you have any sort of oxygen pickup post-fermentation. Sure, you want to brew what you like, but be aware going in that it's going to be challenging to get something comparable to commercial beer. An APA would be much more forgiving.

 

[wepeeler]

I'm guessing this is 2.5 gallons?

Drop the corn sugar. Skip the first wort hops, and drop the WP hops in at 180F. Keep them around 170-180F for about 20 min to extract the good stuff. Above that and you'll extract bitterness, which you don't want from WP hopping. Personally, I do a 5 min addition as well as WP hops, but not everyone does. I also use carafoam, which people claim is the same as carapils, but it definitely is not.

 

[camonick]

my first NEIPA got ruined because I messed up the mash. I had friends and family try it. It wasn't good,

Can you elaborate on this. What happened to your mash? What about the beer wasn’t good? NEIPAs are an incredibly complex beer and usually considered an advanced style to brew. There could be other factors that contributed to an inferior beer. Not saying it can’t be done by a beginner, but there are a lot of different steps that must be done properly. I’ve been brewing for almost 20 years and I’m still intimidated by them.

 

[Djangotet]

Can you elaborate on this. What happened to your mash? What about the beer wasn’t good? NEIPAs are an incredibly complex beer and usually considered an advanced style to brew. There could be other factors that contributed to an inferior beer. Not saying it can’t be done by a beginner, but there are a lot of different steps that must be done properly. I’ve been brewing for almost 20 years and I’m still intimidated by them.

I actually managed a zero oxygen transfer. I messed up the mash because it started dropping quickly at the start and I tried to heat it back up. It ended up around 175 and I couldn’t lower it. For my next batch I insulated and kept ice, went perfectly.

 

[Djangotet]

It looks fine, but here are a few questions and suggestions:

• What's your batch size? It looks a little thin for 5 gallons, a little heavy for 2.5. Do you have a predicted OG?
• What yeast are you using?
• Highly aromatic cryo hops are wasted as bittering additions. It's your money, but results will be equally good with something like Magnum or CTZ. Also, are you only boiling for 30 minutes? Why?
• Whirlpooling at 203 F will definitely add both bitterness and DMS. Why so high? I usually do my hop stand at 160 F or so. I don't think there's a benefit to doing hop stands at multiple temperatures.
• You'll learn more as a brewer if you use fewer ingredients. You're not going to pick out the specific contributions of Simcoe and Amarillo and Citra and Mosaic, so you're not going to learn what each one brings to the table. I use up to two flavor/aroma hops in a batch; when I started brewing I used one.
• I'm anti-Carapils. I don't think it does anything, or anything good. The oats will provide plenty of body and foam.
• The sugar is not going to do anything for you in that amount. Why add sugar at all, especially if you want something full-bodied?
• NEIPA is a hard style to start out with, mostly because the quality really suffers if you have any sort of oxygen pickup post-fermentation. Sure, you want to brew what you like, but be aware going in that it's going to be challenging to get something comparable to commercial beer. An APA would be much more forgiving.

Batch size is 2.5 and my OG 1.071, I will be using London Fog Ale yeast.

The only reason I am using CRYO for first wort hopping is because I will have some of the package leftover.

Carapils is something I questioned as well, i wouldn’t be bothered to remove that.

I chose to drop hops at 203 and at 185 because Scott Janish said hopping at those two points could possibly add a wider and more complex range of fruit flavors in his New IPA book.

I added sugar because mosaic tends to make beers sweeter tasting. Adding a little bit of sugar will help dry up the finish just a bit.

 

[Djangotet]

I'm guessing this is 2.5 gallons?

Drop the corn sugar. Skip the first wort hops, and drop the WP hops in at 180F. Keep them around 170-180F for about 20 min to extract the good stuff. Above that and you'll extract bitterness, which you don't want from WP hopping. Personally, I do a 5 min addition as well as WP hops, but not everyone does. I also use carafoam, which people claim is the same as carapils, but it definitely is not.

I added corn sugar because my OG is 1.071 and mosaic tends to make beers taste sweeter. Probably I can just get rid of this. I followed the hop schedule recommended by Scott Janish in his book, usually he uses Columbus for bitterness, then adds a flamout 203 addition, and add a final addition below 185. I always wasn’t sure about Carapils or carafoam. Some people say they don’t do anything and others say it makes a difference. I think the amount of oats and wheat would probably do enough on their own but idk

 

[PCABrewing]

I am brand new to brewing and my first NEIPA got ruined because I messed up the mash. I had friends and family try it. It wasn't good, so I want to redeem myself this time. I created this recipe below and I am wondering if anyone has any advice for how I could improve it or if you think it will turn out nicely? Thank you very much!

The brands of the grains are not exact, I am more focused on the actual type of grains/ percentages for now. I chose to use different ratios of hops because I didn't want the stronger ones to take over the weaker ones. I chose CRYO hops for the two stronger flavored hops and I will be using standard pellets for Simcoe. The CRYO hops will reduce the amount of vegetal matter and the larger amount of Simcoe will add some vegetal matter so that it tastes more well rounded. I calculated how much of each hop I wanted, then I cut the CRYO hop amount in half. I chose to add corn sugar because Mosaic tends to lend a sweeter taste and I wanted to dry up the finish for that reason. My whirlpool hops will actually be added in stages, half at 203 then the other half below 185. The First Wort bitter hops will add about 10 -15 IBUs for balance. Amarillo was a last minute add-on, I am buying 1oz bags and I needed 1 more oz for dry hopping. So I figured why not add one more variety and that's why Amarillo is only being used in the dry hop stage.

View attachment 792227

I think that your "First-wort" addition is closer to a boil addition temperature-wise (210).
First-wort is closer to whatever the mash-out temp is (170?)

 

[Djangotet]

I think that your "First-wort" addition is closer to a boil addition temperature-wise (210).
First-wort is closer to whatever the mash-out temp is (170?)

Yeah I changed it from a 30 minute addition to a first wort addition, I forgot to update the temp field. Thank you! I usually would add that in right after the mash as I bring it to boil.

 

[wepeeler]

I added corn sugar because my OG is 1.071 and mosaic tends to make beers taste sweeter. Probably I can just get rid of this. I followed the hop schedule recommended by Scott Janish in his book, usually he uses Columbus for bitterness, then adds a flamout 203 addition, and add a final addition below 185. I always wasn’t sure about Carapils or carafoam. Some people say they don’t do anything and others say it makes a difference. I think the amount of oats and wheat would probably do enough on their own but idk

Corn sugar is actually going to dry out your beer. Mosaic won't make your beer sweeter, but it does add a nice berry flavor that goes well in a NEIPA. I use carafoam in almost every beer I make. Right around 5% does the trick. Flaked Oats and Wheat used to be a staple in NEIPA recipes, but I don't use them at all anymore. You can get a nice stable haze with just 2 Row, White wheat and the right yeast/hop combo. London Fog is GREAT! I've read the Janish book, and it's great, but I wouldn't take it as gospel. Most literature says the sweet spot for WP hopping is 170-185F. That's for flavor and survivables. If you want bitterness as well, you can go above 185F. I drop my pellets in at 190F, and after 20 min, I'm usually in the 165F range. Been working for me!

 

[Djangotet]

I think that your "First-wort" addition is closer to a boil addition temperature-wise (210).
First-wort is closer to whatever the mash-out temp is (170?)

Yep, I just left the temperature field by accident because it was originally a boil addition

 

[Kickass]

I added corn sugar because my OG is 1.071 and mosaic tends to make beers taste sweeter.

55-60 IBU’s might be a touch high for a NEIPA but whatever.

203*f for WP seems warm but I haven’t read Janish’s well received book. 203*f might seem high to me because my water boils at 204. So I’d just call those flameout hops, haha.

 

[hotbeer]

IMO.... For IPA's of any sort you'll do better with just a single base malt and 1 - 2 percent of something else to get if the body and mouthfeel you desire. I use Briess Carapils for that 1 - 2 percent, and it seems to give just enough.

 

[Djangotet]

55-60 IBU’s might be a touch high for a NEIPA but whatever.

203*f for WP seems warm but I haven’t read Janish’s well received book. 203*f might seem high to me because my water boils at 204. So I’d just call those flameout hops, haha.

203 is 12 below boiling for me, I head Brulosophy did a test and could not tell between a flameout and whirlpool only addition beer so I wanted to give it a shot. If it's too bitter I will adjust for sure.

 

[marc1]

203 is 12 below boiling for me, I head Brulosophy did a test and could not tell between a flameout and whirlpool only addition beer so I wanted to give it a shot. If it's too bitter I will adjust for sure.

So you're radically below sea level, with water boiling at 215?


This is the beginner forum, and this is a more complicated beer style.

Maybe post your process for everything from start to packaging so people can get an idea of where you are at. You can get some good advice from a lot of different perspectives. They won't all agree on everything, but there's a lot of ways to brew a beer. The most important thing is that you like what you are brewing, and we can help you get there.

 

[Djangotet]

So you're radically below sea level, with water boiling at 215?


This is the beginner forum, and this is a more complicated beer style.

Maybe post your process for everything from start to packaging so people can get an idea of where you are at. You can get some good advice from a lot of different perspectives. They won't all agree on everything, but there's a lot of ways to brew a beer. The most important thing is that you like what you are brewing, and we can help you get there.

I start with distilled water and I will add: 60Ca, 12Mg, 24Na, 60Cl, 30SO4. I don't track bicarbonate. I will use citric acid to adjust to a PH of 5.2.

I make a starter 1.5 - 2 days before and I stir whenever I pass it.

Step 1- I bring mash strike water up to about 5 degrees above target then I add in my grain. I use BIAB so I make sure there are no clumps and I cover up the pot with the burner off. Currently I am wrapping with 6 towels but I am gonna buy Reflectix later.

Step 2 - Mash ends, I pull the bag up and set it on a cookie rack over the pot. I press down with the lid as hard as I can.

Step 3 - I add my First Wort hops and bring to a boil. I was in the middle of something and I gave you the wrong math. Boil in California is 212. I use an induction burner so usually I can get up to 210 - 211 max. In the case of a NEIPA I would boil for 45 - 50 minutes to eliminate DMS.

Step 4 - I start the wort chiller. I use an ice chest with a wort chiller. I buy 2 bags of ice and I circulate I water using a fountain pump. Usually I can go from boiling to cold in about 20 min. I don't stir my wort because stirring causes off-flavors if done on the hot side.

Step 5 - As the wort chills I will add in my flameout hops then as I pass 185 I will add my whirlpool hops. Janish said that hops don't actually need that much time to extract so adding as you cool could be beneficial. I don't hold at any temp, I allow it to drop as I add.

Step 6 - Once the wort reaches below 100 degrees, I will begin to stir the wort to make it chill faster.

Step 7 - Normally the wort is pretty oxygenated from stirring but I also try to stir in some oxygen before pitching. I have heard that a stainless whisk works well too.

Step 8 - I normally would pour the entire pot into my fermentor (fermonster) but I am going to try using a siphon from inside a hop spider. I will throw the hops loose for better extraction then siphon from inside the hop basket to keep the wort clean.

Step 9 - Once the wort is to pitching temp, I decant my starter and pour in the yeast slurry.

Step 10 - I take a silicone cover magnet and stick my dry hops to the roof of the fermentor.

Step 10 - My beer goes into a temperature controlled fridge about 5 degrees below the target temp.

Step 11 - On day 3 of fermentation I pull off the magnet to drop in the dry hops.

Step 12 - After 5 days of dry hopping, I transfer to a keg. I use the spigot to transfer into a purged keg. I take the out tubing and put it into the top of my fermentor. As beer fills the keg, the CO2 going out goes back into the fermentor.

Chill and done.

 

[agentbud]

"I'm gonna try a NEIPA just one more time", he said for the 20th time. "All I need to buy is that <insert latest homebrew gadget name here> and it will turn out perfect next time."
All kidding aside, NEIPAs are great, and challenging per all of the above comments. Brewing them has upped my brewing game tremendously because they force you to keep learning. I keep changing something and trying again. Luckily, all attempts so far have turned out tasting like beer, which is a good thing. Stick with it.

 

[agentbud]

ps - your process above looks good to me. Pretty spot on for a new brewer.

 

[Djangotet]

So you're radically below sea level, with water boiling at 215?


This is the beginner forum, and this is a more complicated beer style.

Maybe post your process for everything from start to packaging so people can get an idea of where you are at. You can get some good advice from a lot of different perspectives. They won't all agree on everything, but there's a lot of ways to brew a beer. The most important thing is that you like what you are brewing, and we can help you get there.

ps - your process above looks good to me. Pretty spot on for a new brewer.

Thank you! I also wash everything with Dawn dish soap cause it’s cheaper… (just a joke, I use pinesole, I enjoy the aromatics)

 

[mashpaddled]

You're overthinking a lot here.

 

[marc1]

I start with distilled water and I will add: 60Ca, 12Mg, 24Na, 60Cl, 30SO4. I don't track bicarbonate. I will use citric acid to adjust to a PH of 5.2.

I make a starter 1.5 - 2 days before and I stir whenever I pass it.

Step 1- I bring mash strike water up to about 5 degrees above target then I add in my grain. I use BIAB so I make sure there are no clumps and I cover up the pot with the burner off. Currently I am wrapping with 6 towels but I am gonna buy Reflectix later.

Step 2 - Mash ends, I pull the bag up and set it on a cookie rack over the pot. I press down with the lid as hard as I can.

Step 3 - I add my First Wort hops and bring to a boil. I was in the middle of something and I gave you the wrong math. Boil in California is 212. I use an induction burner so usually I can get up to 210 - 211 max. In the case of a NEIPA I would boil for 45 - 50 minutes to eliminate DMS.

Step 4 - I start the wort chiller. I use an ice chest with a wort chiller. I buy 2 bags of ice and I circulate I water using a fountain pump. Usually I can go from boiling to cold in about 20 min. I don't stir my wort because stirring causes off-flavors if done on the hot side.

Step 5 - As the wort chills I will add in my flameout hops then as I pass 185 I will add my whirlpool hops. Janish said that hops don't actually need that much time to extract so adding as you cool could be beneficial. I don't hold at any temp, I allow it to drop as I add.

Step 6 - Once the wort reaches below 100 degrees, I will begin to stir the wort to make it chill faster.

Step 7 - Normally the wort is pretty oxygenated from stirring but I also try to stir in some oxygen before pitching. I have heard that a stainless whisk works well too.

Step 8 - I normally would pour the entire pot into my fermentor (fermonster) but I am going to try using a siphon from inside a hop spider. I will throw the hops loose for better extraction then siphon from inside the hop basket to keep the wort clean.

Step 9 - Once the wort is to pitching temp, I decant my starter and pour in the yeast slurry.

Step 10 - I take a silicone cover magnet and stick my dry hops to the roof of the fermentor.

Step 10 - My beer goes into a temperature controlled fridge about 5 degrees below the target temp.

Step 11 - On day 3 of fermentation I pull off the magnet to drop in the dry hops.

Step 12 - After 5 days of dry hopping, I transfer to a keg. I use the spigot to transfer into a purged keg. I take the out tubing and put it into the top of my fermentor. As beer fills the keg, the CO2 going out goes back into the fermentor.

Chill and done.

Looks like you've thought this through pretty well!

A couple suggestions:

What are you adjusting the pH of, the water or the mash? How are you measuring (and when)? Or is it just based on an estimate from a calculator?

If you are decanting the starter, get it going really early, like a week before. Let it go a few days to finish out, then put it in the fridge for a few days to finish dropping the yeast out of suspension.

How are you purging the keg? NEIPA is probably one of if not the the most important styles for this, so getting it right can be a good improvement step.

 

[Djangotet]

Looks like you've thought this through pretty well!

A couple suggestions:

What are you adjusting the pH of, the water or the mash? How are you measuring (and when)? Or is it just based on an estimate from a calculator?

If you are decanting the starter, get it going really early, like a week before. Let it go a few days to finish out, then put it in the fridge for a few days to finish dropping the yeast out of suspension.

How are you purging the keg? NEIPA is probably one of if not the the most important styles for this, so getting it right can be a good improvement step.

I use brewers friend to calculate the PH. It accounts for the grist and everything. I’m really tight on my budget atm so I don’t have a way to measure the PH.

For my starter I am adding 1 liquid pack to 2 liters of DME wort. I shake it around, then the morning before pitching I put it in the fermentation chamber and stop touching it. I pour off the clear liquid and keep the cloud stuff at the bottom. I always drink the beer that was made to test for infection and to understand the yeast more. I actually want to make a permanent starter, I don’t know what you would suggest there? I wanna make more starter than I need and keep rebuilding it each time I brew. Wouldn’t yeast go dormant at 1 week since all the wort would be fermented? I would think by day 2 there would still be some activity.

I am purging my keg by filling it with starsan then pushing it out. I still am trying to find a way to keg dry hop or add tinctures at this stage. Like for example, there is no way to add a tincture to my holiday beer without opening the keg. Or if I want to dry hop the keg, I would have to open it after purging the liquid. Otherwise the hops would be soaked in sanitizer. This is probably the part of the process I’m am most unsure about for any type of beer.

 

[marc1]

I use brewers friend to calculate the PH. It accounts for the grist and everything. I’m really tight on my budget atm so I don’t have a way to measure the PH.

For my starter I am adding 1 liquid pack to 2 liters of DME wort. I shake it around, then the morning before pitching I put it in the fermentation chamber and stop touching it. I pour off the clear liquid and keep the cloud stuff at the bottom. I always drink the beer that was made to test for infection and to understand the yeast more. I actually want to make a permanent starter, I don’t know what you would suggest there? I wanna make more starter than I need and keep rebuilding it each time I brew. Wouldn’t yeast go dormant at 1 week since all the wort would be fermented? I would think by day 2 there would still be some activity.

I am purging my keg by filling it with starsan then pushing it out. I still am trying to find a way to keg dry hop or add tinctures at this stage. Like for example, there is no way to add a tincture to my holiday beer without opening the keg. Or if I want to dry hop the keg, I would have to open it after purging the liquid. Otherwise the hops would be soaked in sanitizer. This is probably the part of the process I’m am most unsure about for any type of beer.

One thing you could try is purging with fermentation gas. I do that and find it easier than filling a keg with sanitizer and pushing it out, especially dealing with that last little bit of headspace.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/keg-purging-with-active-fermentation.628658/

If I have to open the fermenter or the keg, based on the estimations in the linked thread, I'll purge the headspace 13-15x at 30PSI immediately afterwards and I don't notice any issues. (I ferment in a kegmenter, purge the serving kegs with fermentation gas, and closed transfer to the kegs with CO2.)

 

[wepeeler]

IMO.... For IPA's of any sort you'll do better with just a single base malt and 1 - 2 percent of something else to get if the body and mouthfeel you desire. I use Briess Carapils for that 1 - 2 percent, and it seems to give just enough.

Definitely not for a NEIPA. I would use this thought for a Kolsch or Pilsner but definitely not for something like what the OP is looking to brew.

I start with distilled water and I will add: 60Ca, 12Mg, 24Na, 60Cl, 30SO4. I don't track bicarbonate. I will use citric acid to adjust to a PH of 5.2.

I make a starter 1.5 - 2 days before and I stir whenever I pass it.

Step 1- I bring mash strike water up to about 5 degrees above target then I add in my grain. I use BIAB so I make sure there are no clumps and I cover up the pot with the burner off. Currently I am wrapping with 6 towels but I am gonna buy Reflectix later.

Step 2 - Mash ends, I pull the bag up and set it on a cookie rack over the pot. I press down with the lid as hard as I can.

Step 3 - I add my First Wort hops and bring to a boil. I was in the middle of something and I gave you the wrong math. Boil in California is 212. I use an induction burner so usually I can get up to 210 - 211 max. In the case of a NEIPA I would boil for 45 - 50 minutes to eliminate DMS.

Step 4 - I start the wort chiller. I use an ice chest with a wort chiller. I buy 2 bags of ice and I circulate I water using a fountain pump. Usually I can go from boiling to cold in about 20 min. I don't stir my wort because stirring causes off-flavors if done on the hot side.

Step 5 - As the wort chills I will add in my flameout hops then as I pass 185 I will add my whirlpool hops. Janish said that hops don't actually need that much time to extract so adding as you cool could be beneficial. I don't hold at any temp, I allow it to drop as I add.

Step 6 - Once the wort reaches below 100 degrees, I will begin to stir the wort to make it chill faster.

Step 7 - Normally the wort is pretty oxygenated from stirring but I also try to stir in some oxygen before pitching. I have heard that a stainless whisk works well too.

Step 8 - I normally would pour the entire pot into my fermentor (fermonster) but I am going to try using a siphon from inside a hop spider. I will throw the hops loose for better extraction then siphon from inside the hop basket to keep the wort clean.

Step 9 - Once the wort is to pitching temp, I decant my starter and pour in the yeast slurry.

Step 10 - I take a silicone cover magnet and stick my dry hops to the roof of the fermentor.

Step 10 - My beer goes into a temperature controlled fridge about 5 degrees below the target temp.

Step 11 - On day 3 of fermentation I pull off the magnet to drop in the dry hops.

Step 12 - After 5 days of dry hopping, I transfer to a keg. I use the spigot to transfer into a purged keg. I take the out tubing and put it into the top of my fermentor. As beer fills the keg, the CO2 going out goes back into the fermentor.

Chill and done.

Step 6 - Please don't stir. I would not touch the cooling wort with anything at this point. Get to under 100f as soon as possible to reduce DMS, but you also don't want to risk contamination.

Step 8 - If you don't have a ball valve to transfer beer from kettle to fermenter, I would dump everything (or almost everything) into the fermenter. No need to use siphon and hop spider. Another way to risk unnecessary contamination.

I use this after a few days of primary fermentation, so I can cold crash and not suck in O2 and Star San: Cold Crash Guardian - Oxygen-Reducing Cold Crash Blowoff System

Everything else looks ok, but like @mashpaddled says, you're overthinking it. No need to overcomplicate things as a novice brewer. Heck, I'm 6 years in, and I still feel like a novice. But I've brewed NEIPA more than any other style, and I'd like to think I make a good one. I still remove the lid from my fermenter to dry hop and auto siphon into my keg. Never been a victim of oxidation, but I will be moving to closed transfers soon.

 

[marc1]

I use brewers friend to calculate the PH. It accounts for the grist and everything. I’m really tight on my budget atm so I don’t have a way to measure the PH.

For my starter I am adding 1 liquid pack to 2 liters of DME wort. I shake it around, then the morning before pitching I put it in the fermentation chamber and stop touching it. I pour off the clear liquid and keep the cloud stuff at the bottom. I always drink the beer that was made to test for infection and to understand the yeast more. I actually want to make a permanent starter, I don’t know what you would suggest there? I wanna make more starter than I need and keep rebuilding it each time I brew. Wouldn’t yeast go dormant at 1 week since all the wort would be fermented? I would think by day 2 there would still be some activity.

I am purging my keg by filling it with starsan then pushing it out. I still am trying to find a way to keg dry hop or add tinctures at this stage. Like for example, there is no way to add a tincture to my holiday beer without opening the keg. Or if I want to dry hop the keg, I would have to open it after purging the liquid. Otherwise the hops would be soaked in sanitizer. This is probably the part of the process I’m am most unsure about for any type of beer.

For the starter, I suggest making it earlier like above. Add an extra pint or so to it, and when it's done fermenting on the counter top, mix it up and decant a pint into a sanitized mason jar to keep in the fridge for next time, and then put the rest of the starter in the fridge to crash out. Then you can pour off all of the starter beer before pitching, so it doesn't go into the beer you are making.

If you want to pitch very active yeast, instead of doing the above, get it going and then pitch the whole thing into your wort while it's vigorously bubbling.

Both methods work, it's a personal choice about how you want to do it.

 

[Djangotet]

One thing you could try is purging with fermentation gas. I do that and find it easier than filling a keg with sanitizer and pushing it out, especially dealing with that last little bit of headspace.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/keg-purging-with-active-fermentation.628658/

If I have to open the fermenter or the keg, based on the estimations in the linked thread, I'll purge the headspace 13-15x at 30PSI immediately afterwards and I don't notice any issues. (I ferment in a kegmenter, purge the serving kegs with fermentation gas, and closed transfer to the kegs with CO2.)

Woah that’s genius! I always use a blowoff tube just in case. Attaching that tube to a sanitized keg means I don’t have to purge at all! This is what you mean right? I actually toy with the idea of buying another keg. I could ferment in the first keg and attach the gas lines between the kegs.

Metal is better than plastic anyways. The real benefit of course being that I can stack corny kegs. If I continue with my fermentor I won’t have enough space. If I have 3 corny kegs, I can stack an aging beer on top of a neipa. Then I can use the third as a serving keg. If I get 4 I can have two serving kegs, one long term fermentor, and one short term (if you can’t tell, I have to be really concerned with space lol).

I want to master NEIPA, APA, and IPAs to bring to parties. They are best fresh so I can always have it on tap. My second keg would be great for holiday beers or beers that taste better with age. Just thinking to myself here..

 

[marc1]

Woah that’s genius! I always use a blowoff tube just in case. Attaching that tube to a sanitized keg means I don’t have to purge at all! This is what you mean right?

Yes! Saves gas and some work.

This is probably more more in depth than may be warranted for the beginner forum, but you seem to be diving in pretty deep.

Here's what I do:
I give myself some headspace, and use fermcap. I run the gas post on my fermenter (13.2 gallon kegmenter) to the liquid post on keg 1, then the gas post of keg 1 to the liquid post of keg 2, then have a spunding valve on the gas post of keg 2, set to a very low PSI just to make sure that the keg lids stay seated (if they are newer kegs/the lids stay sealed without pressure you might not even need this). I have had some krausen work its way into the tube between the fermenter and keg 1, but I don't think it ever made it all the way to the serving keg.

 

[Djangotet]

Yes! Saves gas and some work.

This is probably more more in depth than may be warranted for the beginner forum, but you seem to be diving in pretty deep.

Here's what I do:
I give myself some headspace, and use fermcap. I run the gas post on my fermenter (13.2 gallon kegmenter) to the liquid post on keg 1, then the gas post of keg 1 to the liquid post of keg 2, then have a spunding valve on the gas post of keg 2, set to a very low PSI just to make sure that the keg lids stay seated (if they are newer kegs/the lids stay sealed without pressure you might not even need this). I have had some krausen work its way into the tube between the fermenter and keg 1, but I don't think it ever made it all the way to the serving keg.

I’ve never heard of fermcap but that sounds like a great idea. My Wee Heavy got pretty insane with the Krausen. I use the 2.6 gallon tmcraft kegs. They stack one on top of the other. I’m almost thinking since my space is so small, if I stack the empty keg on top of the fermenting keg it might save even more space for my unique situation. I use a regular refrigerator so I have more up space than side space. Otherwise your system sounds really great! Luckily I have never had any seal issues. Would you be able to tell if the keg is sealed by spraying with starsan? Or do you use soap water of some kind? I have a new keg so I’m not too worried about this yet..

 

[Djangotet]

Definitely not for a NEIPA. I would use this thought for a Kolsch or Pilsner but definitely not for something like what the OP is looking to brew.

Step 6 - Please don't stir. I would not touch the cooling wort with anything at this point. Get to under 100f as soon as possible to reduce DMS, but you also don't want to risk contamination.

Step 8 - If you don't have a ball valve to transfer beer from kettle to fermenter, I would dump everything (or almost everything) into the fermenter. No need to use siphon and hop spider. Another way to risk unnecessary contamination.

I use this after a few days of primary fermentation, so I can cold crash and not suck in O2 and Star San: Cold Crash Guardian - Oxygen-Reducing Cold Crash Blowoff System

Everything else looks ok, but like @mashpaddled says, you're overthinking it. No need to overcomplicate things as a novice brewer. Heck, I'm 6 years in, and I still feel like a novice. But I've brewed NEIPA more than any other style, and I'd like to think I make a good one. I still remove the lid from my fermenter to dry hop and auto siphon into my keg. Never been a victim of oxidation, but I will be moving to closed transfers soon.

I wanna get the Anvil kettle for this reason! I use a standard kettle but I’m saving this. It would be much nicer to just have one of those mesh filters you can add to the bottom of the kettle. I could probably boil the hop spider but yeah the siphon is sketchy, I agree!

 

[Djangotet]

Definitely not for a NEIPA. I would use this thought for a Kolsch or Pilsner but definitely not for something like what the OP is looking to brew.

Step 6 - Please don't stir. I would not touch the cooling wort with anything at this point. Get to under 100f as soon as possible to reduce DMS, but you also don't want to risk contamination.

Step 8 - If you don't have a ball valve to transfer beer from kettle to fermenter, I would dump everything (or almost everything) into the fermenter. No need to use siphon and hop spider. Another way to risk unnecessary contamination.

I use this after a few days of primary fermentation, so I can cold crash and not suck in O2 and Star San: Cold Crash Guardian - Oxygen-Reducing Cold Crash Blowoff System

Everything else looks ok, but like @mashpaddled says, you're overthinking it. No need to overcomplicate things as a novice brewer. Heck, I'm 6 years in, and I still feel like a novice. But I've brewed NEIPA more than any other style, and I'd like to think I make a good one. I still remove the lid from my fermenter to dry hop and auto siphon into my keg. Never been a victim of oxidation, but I will be moving to closed transfers soon.

Rather than stirring then, I could always cover the top with sanitized foil while pumping in ice water. Then again foil may retain heat. I noticed that the lower the temp, the faster the wort chills from the ice water anyways.

 

[wepeeler]

I wanna get the Anvil kettle for this reason! I use a standard kettle but I’m saving this. It would be much nicer to just have one of those mesh filters you can add to the bottom of the kettle. I could probably boil the hop spider but yeah the siphon is sketchy, I agree!

Or drill a hole in your existing kettle and add a ball valve. Much cheaper

 

[Djangotet]

Or drill a hole in your existing kettle and add a ball valve. Much cheaper

Thought about this but my current kettle is too small anyways. It’s 5.5 and I’m doing a 4 gallon BIAB full grain mash. I also would like to do 90 minute boils for some beer styles but that means I would get only 2 gallons. But yeah I’ll look into the pricing because maybe that will work for now.

 

[Kickass]

203 is 12 below boiling for me,

Are you brewing deep within a borax mine in Death Valley?

All joking aside, if your boil is at 215*f and you’re not a few hundred feet below sea level, I’d recommend calibrating your thermometers. Something is likely off.

 

[Djangotet]

Are you brewing deep within a borax mine in Death Valley?

All joking aside, if your boil is at 215*f and you’re not a few hundred feet below sea level, I’d recommend calibrating your thermometers. Something is likely off.

Lol nah just had a bad math moment while I was doing something else. I boil at 212 like everyone else in Cali!

 

[SRJHops]

Here's my advice... I spent two years brewing the same NEIPA recipe almost once a month until I got it right. The first few batches were badly oxidized, but by #18 I had a pretty good one. Not as good as the best, but better than most.

Those two years trying to make a good NEIPA were well spent, because I ended up with solid brewing processes for making all beer styles.

I agree with others that this is one of the hardest styles to master. It's also the most expensive because of all the fancy hops.

With that said, I would recommend getting ALL of your IBUs from a hop stand at 180 or so for 20. I think you will find you get plenty that way, plus perhaps a few from the dry hop.

Also, as others have said, there is no need for that sugar. It will dry out your beer, which you don't need for this style.

But the main thing is to avoid cold side oxidation at all costs. Master that and you will be on your way...

 

[YeastFeast]

Here's my advice... I spent two years brewing the same NEIPA recipe almost once a month until I got it right. The first few batches were badly oxidized, but by #18 I had a pretty good one. Not as good as the best, but better than most.

Those two years trying to make a good NEIPA were well spent, because I ended up with solid brewing processes for making all beer styles.

I agree with others that this is one of the hardest styles to master. It's also the most expensive because of all the fancy hops.

With that said, I would recommend getting ALL of your IBUs from a hop stand at 180 or so for 20. I think you will find you get plenty that way, plus perhaps a few from the dry hop.

Also, as others have said, there is no need for that sugar. It will dry out your beer, which you don't need for this style.

But the main thing is to avoid cold side oxidation at all costs. Master that and you will be on your way...

Interesting, I seem to be on the same path, my last 6 of 7 beers have been Hazy IPAs. My last one was the best so far but at between 5-6 weeks it turned on me. Started getting darker and a sickly sweet taste, dumped what was left.
As far as adding hops (5 gal batches), I've gone to adding 2 oz at flameout and ALL other hops after fermentation is complete and a soft crash to 50ºF (dry hop). That gives it plenty of bittering for my taste. Cold side oxidation is a major challenge and one I'm obsessed to get right.

 

[SRJHops]

Interesting, I seem to be on the same path, my last 6 of 7 beers have been Hazy IPAs. My last one was the best so far but at between 5-6 weeks it turned on me. Started getting darker and a sickly sweet taste, dumped what was left.
As far as adding hops (5 gal batches), I've gone to adding 2 oz at flameout and ALL other hops after fermentation is complete and a soft crash to 50ºF (dry hop). That gives it plenty of bittering for my taste. Cold side oxidation is a major challenge and one I'm obsessed to get right.

I'd think 2 oz at FO seems as good as 4 oz at 180. The test would be whether you get any more flavor from the 180 hop stand... There must be a Brulosophy experiment out there somewhere.

Yeah, you need to drink 'em up fast or give them away! But my bet is you are getting some oxidation with the final transfer to the keg. Or there is some other way oxygen is getting to your beer. Though I really think most NEIPA's are going to start to fade at 2 months anyway...

I spent most of those two years trying to figure out how not to oxidize the darn beer!

I put my NEIPA's into bottles, even though people often say it can't be done. BUT it can! The bottling sugar actually scavenges for oxygen. The key is to drop the sugar into the bottles, then bottle right from the fermenter. The first and last few bottles are for ME, because they often have some trub, and the middle bottles are for everyone else. :0)

I wonder if adding sugar to the keg for carbonation would also have this same advantage? Now there MUST be an experiment for that too!

The other key is to get a Tilt to monitor fermentation so you don't need to open the fermenter. I do open the fermenter once for late dry hopping. (I don't worry about opening it during active fermentation.) I have some Co2 gas in a can that I spray in after that, though I am not sure how much it really works. Still, the beer does not oxidize from that late dry hop. (I am sure it does oxidize a little, but it's not noticeable.)

My bottled NEIPA's last for quite a long time and don't oxidize, though the hop flavor will start to fade after 2 months for sure. They are usually long gone by then, though!

 

[YeastFeast]

I'd think 2 oz at FO seems as good as 4 oz at 180. The test would be whether you get any more flavor from the 180 hop stand... There must be a Brulosophy experiment out there somewhere.

Yeah, you need to drink 'em up fast or give them away! But my bet is you are getting some oxidation with the final transfer to the keg. Or there is some other way oxygen is getting to your beer. Though I really think most NEIPA's are going to start to fade at 2 months anyway...

I spent most of those two years trying to figure out how not to oxidize the darn beer!

I put my NEIPA's into bottles, even though people often say it can't be done. BUT it can! The bottling sugar actually scavenges for oxygen. The key is to drop the sugar into the bottles, then bottle right from the fermenter. The first and last few bottles are for ME, because they often have some trub, and the middle bottles are for everyone else. :0)

I wonder if adding sugar to the keg for carbonation would also have this same advantage? Now there MUST be an experiment for that too!

The other key is to get a Tilt to monitor fermentation so you don't need to open the fermenter. I do open the fermenter once for late dry hopping. (I don't worry about opening it during active fermentation.) I have some Co2 gas in a can that I spray in after that, though I am not sure how much it really works. Still, the beer does not oxidize from that late dry hop. (I am sure it does oxidize a little, but it's not noticeable.)

My bottled NEIPA's last for quite a long time and don't oxidize, though the hop flavor will start to fade after 2 months for sure. They are usually long gone by then, though!

If you made 18+ of these in a row, I'm guessing you determined that you liked the "bittering" hops at 180ºF vs during the boil or at flameout?
I built a dry hopper for my conical (only 1 batch so far in it, still getting familiar with the conical) so should be oxygen free there. Push a full keg of water/starsan out of keg so should be good there. I do closed transfer from conical to keg too but oxygen is getting in somehow/somewhere!
I need to analyze everything including purging hoses, valves, etc. ...the journey continues...

 

[SRJHops]

If you made 18+ of these in a row, I'm guessing you determined that you liked the "bittering" hops at 180ºF vs during the boil or at flameout?
I built a dry hopper for my conical (only 1 batch so far in it, still getting familiar with the conical) so should be oxygen free there. Push a full keg of water/starsan out of keg so should be good there. I do closed transfer from conical to keg too but oxygen is getting in somehow/somewhere!
I need to analyze everything including purging hoses, valves, etc. ...the journey continues...

The honest answer is there are SO many variables with NEIPA's.... It would take years to test them all... But I have settled on adding 4 ounces of something like Idaho-7 at 180 and letting the temp drop naturally for 20 mins. Then I finish cooling. Gives me the IBU's I need for the style. But would I get the same IBU's and flavor with 2 ounces at flameout? Probably?