Need help with these instructions

[car421]

Hoping to brew my second batch tomorrow - a True Brew Pale Ale and looking for some help with the instructions. I had some help with my first brew, a True Brew Amber which is currently 1 week in the bottles and most everything I have seen here is that the instructions that come with most kits are not very good.

Here is what they say:
Remove the label from the can of malt extract, wash the can, and place it in a pot of hot water to soften the syrup.

Place 1-1 ½ gallons water in the brewpot, and bring to a boil.

Turn the heat off. Place the grains in the steeping bag, and steep in the hot water for 20-30 minutes. Then remove and discard the spent grains, and heat the water again to near boiling.

Turn the heat off (on an electric stove, temporarily remove from burner). While stirring the water with a long-handled spoon, slowly pour the extract into the pot. Continue stirring while adding the dried malt extract and hops. Stir until materials dissolve, then return to heat and bring to a boil. Note: When it first boils, the mixture will foam. Reduce heat, or remove from burner and foam will subside. Turn heat back on, and repeat process until foaming stops. Then boil for 20 minutes to ½ hour.

Place 3 gallons of cold water in your fermenting vessel, and slowly pour the hot mixture into the vessel. Fill with additional cold water up to 5 gallons.

I figure that the 1-1 1/2 gallons to start to boil is not enough and I have a 4 gal pot that I use so I figure to use 3 gal to start. I also figure to boil for 1 hr after adding the hopped extract. And when is the best time to add the DME? Should I wait 1/2 way thru the boil so the beer won't be so dark?

 

[BobC]

No need to boil for an hour since it was already done for you in the hopped extract. I would follow the instructions if you want to use 3 gals that's fine just as long as you have a way to cool the wort down to fermenting temps.

 

[microbusbrewery]

No need to boil for an hour since it was already done for you in the hopped extract. I would follow the instructions if you want to use 3 gals that's fine just as long as you have a way to cool the wort down to fermenting temps.

+1, if you're using hopped extract (no hops pellets or whole hops) then you only need to boil long enough to sanitize the brew. You're not going to get any additional hop utilization by boiling longer unless you add hops.

 

[car421]

+1, if you're using hopped extract (no hops pellets or whole hops) then you only need to boil long enough to sanitize the brew. You're not going to get any additional hop utilization by boiling longer unless you add hops.

Thanks. The kit does have 1 oz of hop pellets along with 2 lbs of DME and the 3.3 lb can of hopped light malt extract and 6oz of Crystal malt grains

 

[SittingDuck]

The hopped extract is for bitterness. The hops theu add to the kit are for flavor/aroma. That is why your instructions say boil 20 minutes. If you boil the hops for 60 you will get more bitterness and no aroma/flavor.

I would boil only 15 to 20 minutes after adding the hops. With that short a boil it won't really matter when you add the extract.

Boiling 3 gallons is a good idea, but remember you will need to cool that down, and the quicker the better. Adding one hot gallon to three chilled gallons cools the wort, but adding 3 hot gallons to two cold doesn't. Get the pot into an ice bath in the sink before adding it to the fermenter.

 

[car421]

The hopped extract is for bitterness. The hops theu add to the kit are for flavor/aroma. That is why your instructions say boil 20 minutes. If you boil the hops for 60 you will get more bitterness and no aroma/flavor.

I would boil only 15 to 20 minutes after adding the hops. With that short a boil it won't really matter when you add the extract.

Boiling 3 gallons is a good idea, but remember you will need to cool that down, and the quicker the better. Adding one hot gallon to three chilled gallons cools the wort, but adding 3 hot gallons to two cold doesn't. Get the pot into an ice bath in the sink before adding it to the fermenter.

I have a wort chiller, so cooling is not an issue. I thought that the extract also needs to be boiled. Do I need to boil the LME but not the DME?

 

[SittingDuck]

They do both need to be boiled. My statement that time didn't matter as much was in relation to your question about a later addition of DME (although more common is the later addition of the LME). Late additions can really help with hour-plus boils. If you are boiling for 15 minutes tops, you can dump it all in at the beginning and not have too much concern about caramelising the wort, especially in the larger boil volume.

 

[car421]

They do both need to be boiled. My statement that time didn't matter as much was in relation to your question about a later addition of DME (although more common is the later addition of the LME). Late additions can really help with hour-plus boils. If you are boiling for 15 minutes tops, you can dump it all in at the beginning and not have too much concern about caramelising the wort, especially in the larger boil volume.

So if I was to do a 1 hr boil what would be the best schedule for addition of the LME, DME and hop pellets?

 

[Zalf]

So if I was to do a 1 hr boil what would be the best schedule for addition of the LME, DME and hop pellets?

Hops are used for several different reasons(bittering, aroma, flavor, etc) and the schedule has a large part in that. So timing of the hops really depends on what you want them to do and are spread out through the boil accordingly.

Extracts have already been through all of the processing and filtering that boiling accomplishes. General sentiment is to add them very late in the boil just long enough to get them mixed thoroughly into the wort. Hopped extract is different because of the hops not because of the extract. Those need to be added according to your recipe to make proper use of the hops.

 

[SittingDuck]

I have never used hopped LME, so I have no idea how that works with long and short boils. For me, I add about half my extract at the start of a 60 minute boil, along with my bittering hops. I add the rest of my extract at about 20-30 left in the boil for DME, but with LME, I add it with five to ten left. Some even add it at flameout. Flavor hops at 20 left, aroma hops between 10 and 1 left. But that is a generic schedule. Each recipe will have its own hop schedule.

And again, the ONLY reason I boil some extract for an hour is because I need an hour boil for the bittering hops. You don't need to boil that long for this beer, because your bittering is coming from the hopped extract. Larger boil volume for this beer will be a benefit. Longer boil will risk darkening and caramelising the wort for no real benefit.

 

[Zalf]

The instructions in your post are kind of simplified to the point of "just throw everything in.". Not uncommon for that type of kit.

If it was me, I would go with something more like:

1)bring two gallons to 160(boiling is way too hot for most grains and will release tannins)
2)steep grains for 30 minutes
3)add water to bring to your desired boil volume
4)bring to boil
5)remove from heat
6)add hops and hopped extract(there is probably a better schedule for the hops but hard to tell from the instructions)
7)bring to boil(watch for boil over when it starts boling)
8)start 30 minute timer(again probably a better boil time but going with the instructions assuming the have a reason for 30 minutes)
9)with 15 minutes left in boil remove from heat and add nonhopped extract(could probably add at start of boil with little effect)
10)bring back to boil again watching for boil over
11)after end of boil cool the wort, put in fermenter, top of water, aerate, pitch yeast, etc per instructions.

 

[Zalf]

Also, relax and enjoy the brew day. With decent sanitation you aren't going to mess anything up enough to ruin the beer.

Make sure you get everything in the boil that needs to be in the boil.

Get your post boil water levels where they need to be.

Get the wort cool enough to pitch yeast and aerate/mix the crap out of it.

Remember to actually pitch the yeast.

The beer wants to be beer and it's harder to screw it up than it is to make it.

 

[SittingDuck]

Agree on the steep at 160. Steeping in boiling water is too hot.

 

[car421]

Thanks for the info. On my first brew - the amber - I brought the 3 gal up to 150 and then added the LME, DME, and hops and brought back to a boil and boiled for 1 hr. The samples tasted good but am stilll 2 weeks out for them to carb up(though I might open 1 next week to see how it is). I thought about doing something similar with this beer but with the hopped extract and the grains I was not sure.

 

[car421]

Also, relax and enjoy the brew day. With decent sanitation you aren't going to mess anything up enough to ruin the beer.

Make sure you get everything in the boil that needs to be in the boil.

Get your post boil water levels where they need to be.

Get the wort cool enough to pitch yeast and aerate/mix the crap out of it.

Remember to actually pitch the yeast.

The beer wants to be beer and it's harder to screw it up than it is to make it.

On my fist batch the only mixing was transferring the wort from the pot to the carboy. The yeast was pitched on top of the wort for 15 min and I then gently mixed in by moving the carboy. I did hit my FG right on the mark.

 

[Zalf]

On my fist batch the only mixing was transferring the wort from the pot to the carboy. The yeast was pitched on top of the wort for 15 min and I then gently mixed in by moving the carboy. I did hit my FG right on the mark.

The mixing after cooling loads the wort with oxygen that the yeast needs to feed and multiply. The boil takes all of that out of the wort so we have to add it back in. I have always had good lucky with vigorous stirring, splashing when transferring to the fermenter, and some good shaking. Others go to much further extremes.

This is the only time you really want to add oxygen to the wort. Afterwards you want to do everything you can to avoid adding oxygen to your beer.

 

[unionrdr]

OK,everyone missed the single most important point. absolutely NEVER boil hopped extract! Whether it's DME or LME,boiling will drive off the flavor/aroma hop additions brewed into the extract. You wind up with more bittering than was originally intended,& if LME is boiled long enough it darkens,& can give that extract twang.
That's why I use plain DME in the boil for hop additions,about 1.5 to 2lbs in a 3 gallon boil. It will keep it's lighter color longer than LME. Then at flame out,I add the remaining DME & all the LME. The wort is still plenty hot enough after mixing in the remaining fermentables to pasteurize it all,which happens at 162F. The wort is still around 180+ at that point. I steep for a timed 10 minutes at this point to pasteurize & let the temp come down a bit before the ice bath.
So in your case,you should've used the 2lb of DME in your 3G boil for the hop additions. Then add the remaining fermentables at flame out,but have them ready to go before the timer runs out. This way,you can work quickly to add the remaining fermentables while the wort is still boiling hot. Trust me,this system works quite well,as I've used it since my 2nd brew & it hasen't failed me yet.

 

[car421]

OK, based on all the replies this is how I figure on making this batch(was going to brew today but the day went by pretty quick working around the house)

True Brew Pale Ale:

Bring 3 gal of water up to ~150, remove from heat, add the grains(Crystal Malt 6oz) and seep for 30 min.

Remove grains, return pot to burner and bring to a boil. Add 2 lbs of Light DME and 1oz of hop pellets.

Boil for 30 min, remove from heat, stir in 3.3 lbs of Hopped LME

Cool wort to ~90, transfer to carboy, top off to make 5 gal.

Take sample for BG, pitch yeast, let yeast sit for 15 min an stir into wort.

Attach blow-off hose and let the magic begin.

Anyone see any issues with this?
Thanks.

 

[Zalf]

Nope, sounds like that will make beer. Enjoy the brew day and try to remember what you did so you can start tweaking/fine tuning on future brew days.

 

[unionrdr]

Get the wort down lower than 90F,more like 70F would def be better. And let the steeped grain wort get up to a boile before adding hops. Right before it boils,you'll get a foamy hot break. Use a spray bottle full of water & your spoon to keep it down. It'll last about 3 minutes,then add hops. If they're just flavor additions,boil for no more than 20-25 minutes for full flavor from the hops.
Then use a wort chiller or ice bath to get the hot wort down to about 70F.

 

[SittingDuck]

^^^ this. Definitely boil before adding hops, and as I said earlier, I would suggest you boil for 20 minutes max after adding the hops. Based on your instructions, these are intended as flavoring hops. Flavoring hops are best at 20 minutes. Beyond that you lose flavoring and get into bittering, which you already have in your extract.

 

[car421]

Get the wort down lower than 90F,more like 70F would def be better. And let the steeped grain wort get up to a boile before adding hops. Right before it boils,you'll get a foamy hot break. Use a spray bottle full of water & your spoon to keep it down. It'll last about 3 minutes,then add hops. If they're just flavor additions,boil for no more than 20-25 minutes for full flavor from the hops.
Then use a wort chiller or ice bath to get the hot wort down to about 70F.

I thought that if the wort was at 90 and my top-ff water was room temp ~70 that would be alright to pitch the yeast at. That is what I did on my first batch. Any advantage to having the temp lower?

^^^ this. Definitely boil before adding hops, and as I said earlier, I would suggest you boil for 20 minutes max after adding the hops. Based on your instructions, these are intended as flavoring hops. Flavoring hops are best at 20 minutes. Beyond that you lose flavoring and get into bittering, which you already have in your extract.

So I will modify my instructions to add the DME at boil, boil for 10 min, add the hops and boil for an additional 20 min.

I don't wan't to ruin the hop flavor as I am a hop head, love IPA's and Pale Ale's.

 

[car421]

Ok, so after reading all replies again this is what I have come up with. Gonna start brewing in about 3 hrs:

Bring 3 gal of water up to ~160, remove from heat, add the grains(Crystal Malt 6oz) and seep for 30 min.

Remove grains, return pot to burner and bring to a boil. Add 2 lbs of Light DME and boil for 10 min.

Add 1 oz Hop pellets and boil for 20 more min.

Remove from heat, stir in 3.3 lbs of Hopped LME

Cool wort to ~70, transfer to carboy, top off to make 5 gal.

Take sample for BG, pitch yeast, let yeast sit for 15 min an stir into wort.

Attach blow-off hose and let the magic begin.

Sound good?

 

[SittingDuck]

Sounds good to me. Sounds like beer!

 

[unionrdr]

Def sounds a whole lot better. I've just turned down the heat to where I can maintain steep temp with my electric stove. I keep my floating thermomwter suspended on the side of the pot tied to one of the handles. Easier to help maintain temp that way.

 

[car421]

Def sounds a whole lot better. I've just turned down the heat to where I can maintain steep temp with my electric stove. I keep my floating thermomwter suspended on the side of the pot tied to one of the handles. Easier to help maintain temp that way.

I've heard that you can get your oven up to 200, turn it off and put the pot in the oven to help maintain temp.

 

[unionrdr]

I've heard of that,but never tried it. Seems like 200F would be a bit too high,though. Having an oven that goes down to 100F would be better. That way you could set it to 154,etc degrees.
And a couple gallons of room temp water won't get 90F wort down to 70F. Been there,tried that. I just ice bath the hot BK in the sink down to 64F or so. Starting low & letting the temp rise def makes it a tad cleaner tasting/smelling.

 

[car421]

Brewing has begun....

 

[unionrdr]

Good luck,hope we helped a little...

 

[car421]

Good luck,hope we helped a little...

You sure did. Just put in the grains(in a bag) at 155. Lowered burner and am keeping a close watch on the temp.

Now should I just leave the grains alone or give it a stir once in a while?

 

[unionrdr]

You could move the bag around now & then to make sure the grains are evenly saturated.