Tips to Prevent DME Clumping?

[landmissle]

Hi all,

I've completed two brew batches now. Both were full boil and used LME which I'm comfortable with. I've come across a beer recipe kit from MoreBeer! that is only available locally in DME form. I've heard that DME has a tendency to clump when added to the heated or boiling water. Are there any tips or techniques to reduce the clumping or is it something not to worry about?

Tips I've heard about included everything from using a whisk, stirring vigoriously, to pour it in at XX temp rather than boiling. Since I've never dealt with DME, I'm not sure what to expect and would like to avoid any surprises that far along on brew day.

For me with LME, a full boil, and a 5 gallon recipe, I typically heat up 6 gallons of water to about 155 degrees F. Remove from heat and add my steeping grains and let those soak for 30 minutes. I then bring this to a boil. Remove from heat and stir in the LME that was still packaged and had been soaking in hot water for easy pouring. Return to boil and then begin adding hops.

Would I do anything different DME, other than not needing to soak the DME package in hot water?

Thank you for any advice.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

A large ballon whisk worked great for me. Whisk it, whisk it good!

 

[GoodTruble]

Some people suggest mixing it in a side pot with just warm water to keep steam from being a problem. Then just mix the warm mixture into you much hotter kettle liquid.

I find that's not really worth the effort. I just cut a large corner off the DME bag so that it can pour quickly. Pour half in quickly (avoid holding the bag over steam for any longer than necessary), mix it in with a large spoon (or whatever you use anyway), then mix second half of bag in.

Some small amount will always clump to the rim of the bag. But it's minimal if you move quickly. (And you can dip the edge of the bag in the wort to dissolve the clumps, if you want to be obsessive about it).

And it can clump in the liquid, but I've always had that dissolve within 10 minutes with minimal stirring.

Imo, LME and DME are equally messy/difficult to add. And so DME usually wins out for having a longer shelf-life.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I make a slurry of DME and room temp water. Pouring it in and letting it sit without stirring at all takes maybe 10-15m.

Check out @D.B.Moody's descriptions of their 30m boil process beginning at post #11 in the Brewed a Favorite Recipe thread.

 

[slomo]

When I brewed with DME I found that I got less clumping if I sprinkled or poured slowly. A whisk was a great help. Simply dumping the DME always made clumps for me.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Is relative humidity on brew day a "hidden factor" in choosing among various techniques we use? ? ?

I typically heat up 6 gallons of water to about 155 degrees F. Remove from heat and add my steeping grains and let those soak for 30 minutes. I then bring this to a boil. Remove from heat and stir in the LME that was still packaged and had been soaking in hot water for easy pouring. Return to boil and then begin adding hops.
[...]
Would I do anything different DME, other than not needing to soak the DME package in hot water?

You could add the DME at the end of the steep. When I do a normal steep (either at 150F for 30 min or at flame-on until 160F), I will add the DME at this point. Note that wort heats a little slower than water.

My experience with DME is that

• clumping is not a concern when the water is below about 170F
• all the ideas above (yes, I've tried most of them over the years) work.

 

[fluketamer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/dme-without-clumping.698789/

 

[landmissle]

Thanks all for the replies. Ok, I've built up my courage and ordered the DME based extract kit. Looks like I'll be brewing some Irish Red Ale this weekend!

 

[fluketamer]

i used to fear dme due to the clumping and always brewed with lme. however due to the problems with storing half cans of briess lme i switched over to dme and the shelf life is much longer anyway .

 

[lumpher]

DME is a breeze to use. Pour it into a bowl. When you're ready to add it, gently pour with 1 hand while briskly stirring the water with a whisk with the other hand. Never had a problem with clumping doing it like that.

 

[GoodTruble]

@lumpher - I tried that but found the dust cloud from getting it into the bowl wasn't worth it. Maybe I'll give it another try though.

 

[uweschmitt]

I make a slurry of DME and room temp water.

I'm also doing this, I find DME clumps if you use water at lower temp.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'm also doing this, I find DME clumps if you use water at lower temp.

Just let it sit for 10 or so minutes. A quick stir will break it right up if any remain.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

some additional thoughts, as the brand of DME may be a consideration in some of the anecdotal stories.

dust when pouring DME

IME, dust tends to be due to the DME landing hard in the container (not necessarily pouring too fast) and may be somewhat brand specific.

dissolve in a bowl (slurry) at room temperature

Based on a couple of "room temperature slurry" trials, Muntons seems to dissolve a little quicker (but can be a little dustier) than Briess.

DME vs LME

The couple of times I brewed with LME this past spring, I found that it sinks "like a rock" to the bottom (water was around 150F, heat was off). OTOH, with DME (at ~ 150F) generally dissolves before reaching the bottom of the kettle (2.5 gal water in a 4 gal kettle), but stirring will speed up the process.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Let it clump. It's nothing to worry about. Get your water hot - about 150° - 170°, remove from heat, pour in DME, and stir. The clumps will dissolve.

 

[landmissle]

Here's a follow up question. My beer kit arrived today and I noticed that it came with 6 lbs of DME. The LME version comes with 7 lbs of malt extract. Now the brewing instructions that come with the kit, don't differentiate between DME and LME when it comes to the amount of water to start with. In the case of a full boil it's 6 gallons.

Here is where I'm scratching my head and wondering if I'm overthinking this. By adding the 6lbs of DME, to the 6 gallons of water, I may impact the totoal volume of wort as compared to adding 7lbs of LME to 6 gallons of wort. From my understanding, the LME is about 20% water and the DME is about 2% water. Doing some math I see that;

LME: 80% of 7lbs. = 5.6 lbs of "real extract"
DME: .98 of 6lbs. = 5.88 lbs of "real extract"

So technically, I'm getting more "real extract" with DME. So should I expect the OG to be at the upper range of the expected amount compared to using LME?

Also, since LME would be adding 1.4 lbs of water (about 22 oz of water) compared to DME, that would potentially be deluting the wort. Presumably that would be contributor to a lower SG too.

This is all assuming I do not add water to the DME to make a slurry before adding it to the kettle.

Is my thinking correct here and is it practical or am I confused and/or spltting hairs?

 

[RynoRama]

I use the put it in a bowl and whisk it in method

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Here's a follow up question. My beer kit arrived today and I noticed that it came with 6 lbs of DME. The LME version comes with 7 lbs of malt extract. Now the brewing instructions that come with the kit, don't differentiate between DME and LME when it comes to the amount of water to start with. In the case of a full boil it's 6 gallons.

Here is where I'm scratching my head and wondering if I'm overthinking this. By adding the 6lbs of DME, to the 6 gallons of water, I may impact the totoal volume of wort as compared to adding 7lbs of LME to 6 gallons of wort. From my understanding, the LME is about 20% water and the DME is about 2% water. Doing some math I see that;

LME: 80% of 7lbs. = 5.6 lbs of "real extract"
DME: .98 of 6lbs. = 5.88 lbs of "real extract"

So technically, I'm getting more "real extract" with DME. So should I expect the OG to be at the upper range of the expected amount compared to using LME?

Also, since LME would be adding 1.4 lbs of water (about 22 oz of water) compared to DME, that would potentially be deluting the wort. Presumably that would be contributor to a lower SG too.

This is all assuming I do not add water to the DME to make a slurry before adding it to the kettle.

Is my thinking correct here and is it practical or am I confused and/or spltting hairs?

Oh, man. That's a lot of math and thunking and smarting and what have you.

I would just follow the instructions and top up with water, if needed.

Do we need to talk about split extract additions or do you already do that?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

My beer kit arrived today and I noticed that it came with 6 lbs of DME. The LME version comes with 7 lbs of malt extract.

starting with 6 gal water, the wort from

• adding 6 lb DME should be around OG 44
• adding 7 lb LME should be around OG 41

column 'C' is the additional amount of water from the LME (in ounces)​

F2 ==> D2*E2/B2 ==> 6 * 44 / 6 = 44​

F3 ==> D3*E3/(B3+C3/128) ==> 7 * 36 / 6.17 = 41​

​

This is all assuming I do not add water to the DME to make a slurry before adding it to the kettle.

You can use part of the 6 gal of water to make the slurry.

 

[landmissle]

Hi all,

I brewed the beer with the DME this past Saturday. The DME powder was extremely fine. Based on the advice, I decided to place a 3lbs bag into single bowl and then pour it in the kettle after the steeping grains were in for 30 minutes. The temperature was around 160 degrees F. Whisked/stirred the powder in without issue, but I did have my daughter helping by holding and pouring the bowl while I stirred the wort.

The only real issue was that a thin layer of DME formed a semi crust and clung to the bowl. This had to be scrapped out near the end of the pour. We then repeated the process for the 2nd 3lbs. bag.

All in all, not a particularly difficult situation, but I'm really glad to have gotten advice and learned what to expect.

The original gravity was 1.052, which was right near the top of the expected range for this beer. Looking forward to trying this one out when it's ready.

Thanks again everyone for all the feedback.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

a thin layer of DME formed a semi crust and clung to the bowl.

When this happens, I dunk most (but not all) of the bowl into the 150°F-ish wort.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Next time, try the cool water slurry? See which works best for you?

 

[jerrylotto]

I add it though a spaghetti strainer while stirring. Never have any problems with clumping. It is important to store it dry - I double bag it and keep it in a sealed container with desiccant packets.

 

[ncbrewer]

Getting it dissolved hasn't been a problem for me, but no matter what I do, dust puffs into the air. I just don't want the DME dust on the surfaces in the kitchen, so now I just use LME.

 

[D.B.Moody]

In my experience the DME dust cloud is mostly caused by the damp heat rising from heated water. Using unheated water removes that cause, all I have to do is pour slowly and from not too high. Briess seems to require more encouragement in dissolving than Muntons.

 

[seatazzz]

Next time measure out just a little extra to compensate for what might stick to the bowl. What's left stuck in the bowl? Crack it off and snack on it. Tastes like the insides of whoppers, very tasty. When I use DME I do this on purpose.

 

[jerrylotto]

Next time measure out just a little extra to compensate for what might stick to the bowl. What's left stuck in the bowl? Crack it off and snack on it. Tastes like the insides of whoppers, very tasty. When I use DME I do this on purpose.

Since I'm using a stainless colander I just dump it into the preboil wort after I'm done emptying it to rinse it off. Never have enough left over to snack on, although I can always dig into fresh if I need to

 

[kartracer2]

@landmissle I'll use a SS mixing bowl with my DME in it and sort of fan it into my 150-160* wort with one hand and stir with the other. This works for me but every body finds what works best for them. And yes, the bowl will grow a DME "beard" but knock it off with your spoon or whisk and dip the bowl edge in the wort when your done and get to boiling. (LOL)
Now with that said one thing you said you did was that you steep your grains in your pot full of water. I have read that may be too much water for just steeping grains. Brad Smith of BeerSmith fame, recommends no more than 1gal. water per 1lb. of grain as seen here. (LINK)

Tastes like the insides of whoppers, very tasty.

All I have to say is this, YUMMY (link).

Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

From another current topic (link) on steeping

How to Brew, 4e (2017) has an updated approach to steeping (steep in a low OG wort made from low mineral water and malt extract). The process is described in chapter 1 (p 13) and background information can be found in chapter 4 (page 58).

With regard to pH meters and steeping, I've found that Mash Chemistry and Brewing Water Calculator - Brewer's Friend will accurately estimate pH when steeping in water. (I didn't see where it could model steeping in low OG wort)

Also note that the BeerSmith article used " 'worst case' alkaline drinking water and typical steeped grains such as crystal malt" for the articles pH estimates.