My wild starters not working

[onkeltuka]

I've now attempted twice to make a "wild" starter. I boil DME for 15 mins, add some hops and Servomyces, pour the whole thing into a big glass jar (1.5 liters), cover the opening with a cheese cloth, and take the whole thing to cool into the garden. With these two prior attempts I left them out for the whole night, and in the morning I attached a lid with a airlock.

Neither one ever showed any kind of foaming, krauesen, or bubbling of the airlock. Both grew a few light coloured floating "patches" on the surface. The first one smelled strongly of vinegar, and the second smelled like pickled cucumbers and sweat. Discarded them both.

Today I made a third one, just like the previous ones. I took it out and put some chokeberries (Aronia) on the cheesecloth, in the hope that there would be some yeasts on them.

Is it possible that my lid isn't airtight (although it should be)? Would that let the souring microbes take over? Any tips on how to improve my process?

Thanks!

 

[hijukal]

I believe too much hops can prevent wild yeast from inoculating wort, so make sure the wort is lowly-hopped. It can also depend on the weather; it seems cool, not too windy autumn nights are the best time to do it.

I've had a couple of successes, the most recent one was the second runnings from a Belgian strong dark ale and it took probably two weeks before there was any reasonable activity on it.

It looked like this after 4 days (first picture), and then two weeks (second picture), didn't really behave like a normal fermentation at all:

The taste was also quite solvent-like, and reduced a bit after a couple of weeks, but I've put it in a 5L bottle under the house and will leave it for a year (been a few months already) to see what happens with it.

Anyway, give it some time if you have the equipment to spare, because it seems like it's a much slower process!

 

[brwagur]

I'd try leaving it outside until you see signs of fermentation and THEN bring it in and install the airlock. That way you'll know it's picked something up.

 

[porterpounder]

If you have fruit in the environment you're better off making wort and dropping the fruit directly into it instead of trying to wild capture over an extended period in a small container. It's always worked better for me to go direct.

 

[Cyclman]

don't know if you've seen this: http://youtu.be/L3sijnoW5HU

 

[onkeltuka]

Thanks for the tips! I threw some of those chokeberries in to the latest jar. If that doesn't work, I'll do a new one sans hops, and leave it outside longer plus add the berries sooner.

 

[joshrosborne]

Maybe I'm incorrect on this, but hops shouldn't inhibit yeast growth; only Lacto.

 

[bikesandbrews]

in "wild brew" he discusses that there are several steps to an open fermentation, the first being acetobacter then lacto then sacchromyces/brett then pedio. not all fermentations will get these bacteria but i found that i had to wait at least 1 week to get a healthy culture.

When i did a similar experiment I let the wort ferment out completely uncovered on a window sill after inoculation.

 

[onkeltuka]

That's interesting because in "American Sour Beers" Tonsmeire says he did starters that were only open for one night. But my experiences this far would seem to show that it isn't enough? In my conditions that is. I don't know. But it still is really interesting

 

[hijukal]

Maybe I'm incorrect on this, but hops shouldn't inhibit yeast growth; only Lacto.

Regular brewers yeast, sure. But who knows what's going on with whatever strain happens to be in your back yard? You could always blend it with a more traditionally fermented and highly-hopped beer if you wanted a hoppy lambic.

That's interesting because in "American Sour Beers" Tonsmeire says he did starters that were only open for one night. But my experiences this far would seem to show that it isn't enough? In my conditions that is. I don't know. But it still is really interesting

The times I've tried it (only twice, admittedly), I've only had to leave it out overnight. The first time was an Erlenmeyer flask full (about 1L) and the second time was a fermenter left open with around 7-8L.

Perhaps, if you're an all grain brewer you could try separating 1L of your next brew, and leaving some of that out instead of DME? Remember that weather also plays a big part. Guys like Cantillon don't brew lambics all year round.

 

[joshrosborne]

Regular brewers yeast, sure. But who knows what's going on with whatever strain happens to be in your back yard?

I'm not familiar with any Sacc. or Brett strains which are affected by hopping rates. Pedio also should not be affected. The only thing that should be affected is Lacto, and that's not yeast anyways.

 

[onkeltuka]

Now at last,a couple of days after adding the berries there's some bubbling in the airlock. Very faint but still. There's no foam or krauesen or anything though.

 

[onkeltuka]

The floating berries ended up growing some white mold on them, so I opened the jar. It smelled faintly fruity, but wasn't really a keeper.

So I made a fourth starter, this time with only a pinch of hops. I let it sit out on the yard for 18 hrs, the temps were about 45. Now after three days I suddenly noticed this ring of foam around the surface of the wort. I first thought it was mold, but no, it's foam. Looks really weird, why is it on the edges only? No bubbling in the airlock though. It's been that way for 12 hours or so. Weird.

 

[mkyl428]

looks promising

 

[onkeltuka]

Now 24 hrs later there's a nice thick krauesen all over the surface

 

[mkyl428]

picture or it didn't happen

 

[onkeltuka]

Has started to go away a bit,but still bubbling.

 

[onkeltuka]

Actually, second that, that last one was taken this morning but now I just got home and the foam is thicker than ever.

 

[mkyl428]

Nice work! keep us posted on this!

 

[onkeltuka]

I just opened the starter jar and smelled it; it smells of pickled cucumbers and meybe a little bit peppery? Maybe it has went acetic? When do I dare to taste it? It's strange if it has gone acetic after it fermented so vigorously?

 

[TAK]

Nice work.

I think you're safe to try it if and after the gravity drops. That should indicate alcohol production, which should also be accompanied by pH drop, both of which, or maybe it's together (?), will kill anything dangerous. At least, that's my understanding.

I just set out my first spontaneous fermentation experiment for inoculation. I way overshot my efficiency on a pale ale today. I diluted it to bring down the gravity, and removed some volume to hit my numbers. I boiled up the wort that I removed for 15 minutes, bittered to 16 IBUs (calculated). I set out the hot pot with cheesecloth tonight. I think I'll give it 24 hours and then put it in a jug to ferment.

 

[TAK]

Now 24 hrs later there's a nice thick krauesen all over the surface

Any updates?

This is what mine looks like after 4 days:

 

[onkeltuka]

Looks nice. Mine smells so acetic,like pickled cucumbers,that I won't even taste it... maybe the amount of airspace in the jar has something to do with it?

 

[TAK]

That's too bad. I haven't opened mine yet to smell it, so I've still no idea.

 

[TAK]

Does anyone know what a safe pH is before I taste mine?