Munton and Fison ale yeast problem...maybe.

[NYShooterGuy]

2 cup h2o to 1/2 cup light dme starter for Muton and Fison ale yeast. Decanted the beer and tossed about 16 oz of sterilized h2o in to get it moving. Tossrd the lot into 6 gallons of 1.032 OG oxygenated wort. Wort was made with .5 tps of yeast nutrient.

12 hours later, no sign of fermentation. Temp is 66°F.

Should I check under the hood? Pitch 8oz. of harvested s-04 yeast slurry? Sprinkle on 2 more packets of Munton and Fison (if I can find it at the shop)?

Obviously checking at 12 hours might be jumping the gun, but I have yeaat slurry on hand from a few different strains, as well as dry packets I could rehydrate and pitch. If the shop carries the Munton and Fison, and the batch seems stalled, should I pitch after waiting a prudent amount of time?

Just curious as to my best option at this point.

Thanks to all for the help!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Making a starter with dried yeast is not a good idea.

It's only been 12 hours. If you don't see any activity after 36 hours, go ahead and make sure you have another yeast ready to pitch. If you don't see activity at 72 hours, pitch your alternate.

 

[RM-MN]

At 66 degrees you may need to wait quite a bit longer. Check it at 30 hours and if you don't have activity, pitch a new pack.

 

[flars]

Rehydrate dry yeast before you make a starter with it. After the starter is complete use it as you would any liquid yeast. Don't use distilled or RO water for the rehydration.
12 hours is to early to start worrying.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Thanks all. My shop doesn't have Munton and Fison. Ill look for it elsewhere. I'll try just re hydrating dry yeast from now on.

 

[unionrdr]

I've been using spring water to rehydrate dry yeast at 80-93F. They seem to like the warmer temps & spring water when rehydrating. I only did a small starter for dry yeast that was 2 years old. Wound up needing a blow off! Otherwise, fresher dry yeast should be rehydrated for best results.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I've only made 8 total batches in my beginning to this hobby. 7 were dry yeast with starters and I pitched the entire starter with the beer it made in the flask. I never re hydrated before puting the packet into the starter either. Guessing I've just been lucky.

 

[unionrdr]

Seems to me that's what they told me a few years ago! But starters for really old yeast sure does work! Otherwise rehydrating & pitching at high krausen within 10 degrees of current wort temp works really well. I did that with S-04 in an ESB & it started visible fermentation in some 3 hours flat. Finished fermenting & settling out in 10!

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Well still no signs of fermentation. I know not to rely on the airlock, but tomorrow at around waking up, I'll take a hydrometer reading to see if it dropped. I have a slurry of Danstar Nottingham yeast that I could pitch if there is no signs of life from the fermenter.

Wish me luck.

 

[ruddyscot]

Making a starter with dried yeast is not a good idea. /QUOTE]


Pray tell, why not? I've been doing just that for quite some time. My yeast propagations have gone well and I find no detectable differences in my yeast from batch to batch . I pitch about a one liter starter with dry or wet yeast

 

[ArcaneXor]

Making a starter with dried yeast is not a good idea. /QUOTE]

Pray tell, why not? I've been doing just that for quite some time. My yeast propagations have gone well and I find no detectable differences in my yeast from batch to batch . I pitch about a one liter starter with dry or wet yeast

Common wisdom says that it's not necessary and may do more harm than good. Rehydrating dry yeast in a sugary solution reportedly results in significant cell death due to osmotic shock. Also, since a dry yeast pack contains about 200 billion cells, you'd need a very large starter for there to be any kind of significant reproduction if you rehydrated before propagation (much larger than 1 liter, even using a stir plate). The final argument I have heard has something to do with depleting glycogen reserves, but I don't understand cell metabolism well enough to understand, let alone explain that mechanism.

If you pitch dry yeast directly into a starter, you essentially killing a bunch of cells that are you are then regrowing in the starter, and in a one-liter starter you may well end up with fewer cells than you started out with. It just seems like an unnecessary expense and time investment. Rehydrating is best practice for most dry yeasts.

 

[z-bob]

That's an awfully strong starter solution, isn't it? It sounds like way too much DME for that much water.

 

[ruddyscot]

Common wisdom says that it's not necessary and may do more harm than good. Rehydrating dry yeast in a sugary solution reportedly results in significant cell death due to osmotic shock. Also, since a dry yeast pack contains about 200 billion cells, you'd need a very large starter for there to be any kind of significant reproduction if you rehydrated before propagation (much larger than 1 liter, even using a stir plate). The final argument I have heard has something to do with depleting glycogen reserves, but I don't understand cell metabolism well enough to understand, let alone explain that mechanism.

If you pitch dry yeast directly into a starter, you essentially killing a bunch of cells that are you are then regrowing in the starter, and in a one-liter starter you may well end up with fewer cells than you started out with. It just seems like an unnecessary expense and time investment. Rehydrating is best practice for most dry yeasts.

Sure I agree about pitching yeast into a sugary starter. Tell me your thoughts about my process: I rehydrate the dry least in about a cup of water; I then put this into a two liter bottle of wert and place on stir plate for 24 hours +/- to propagate; I then have about twice the yeast, half of which I save for future brews and half I pitch into current batch.

I sure wish I had paid attention to basic chemistry and biology in high school. . . if they had only explained about brewing back then . . . .

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Update: Slow bubbles from airlock. Now I just have to worry I stressed the yeast into making to many off flavors.

Darn.