This is our first attempt at making apple cider. All seemed to go well and we bottled the cider 12 days ago. Two of the bottles seem to have a white mold at the neck of the bottle. Do we need to throw it out? Is it harmful? Does anyone know if this was caused by some improper sterilization of bottles or any idea why?
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madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Did you sulfite the cider before bottling?
There are many possible causes, and without knowing your procedures, there's no way to narrow it down.
I've had similar issues, just drink those bottles first. After opening, try to quickly dump out the cider in the neck of the bottle with the yeast. Taste a small amount and if it tastes OK, it will be fine.
There are many possible causes, and without knowing your procedures, there's no way to narrow it down.
I've had similar issues, just drink those bottles first. After opening, try to quickly dump out the cider in the neck of the bottle with the yeast. Taste a small amount and if it tastes OK, it will be fine.
Sure it's mold? Sounds more like some wild yeast or bacteria to me. If it's not mold, it's harmless. If it's mold, it should be dumped.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
^ This is correct.
Is there any way you can post a clear photo? It's most likely a film (pellicle) caused by wild yeast or bacteria, and not mold.
Mold is fuzzy or hairy.
Sequoiacider
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Miraculix and RPH are correct. If it is white and is a film, then it is probably just some floating yeast cultures, which are not a problem. If is is hairy or fuzzy or dark or green, then you have a problem.
A picture would definitely help.
A picture would definitely help.
Sorry, I don't see them. Did you use the "upload the file" button? Maybe you can upload it to some picture hoster if this didn't work and just post the link to the pictures.
Indeed they are! Does NOT look like mold to me. More like an bacterial infection, which is not a problem. I have actually never seen something like on the first picture before, maybe somebody else who is more into this type of stuff has some idea, @RPh_Guy for example.
bucketnative
Well-Known Member
I have seen what appears on the first photo in a batch of cider that I made about two years ago. I racked from under it into another vessel, and the cider was fine. It was stable for over a year in the bottle without going off or anything like that.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Those are obviously pellicles and not mold. Nothing to worry about!
If the appearance bothers you, you can prevent it with either sulfite and/or a low-oxygen bottling process. Bottle carbonating also helps.
Cheers
If the appearance bothers you, you can prevent it with either sulfite and/or a low-oxygen bottling process. Bottle carbonating also helps.
Cheers
That's how it looks after it's been sloshed around a little.
GeneDaniels1963
Well-Known Member
I have drank several beers and ciders with bacteria like that. Not a problem, but it will get sour the longer it sits. If you don't like sours, then drink it quickly.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Let's talk about acid production in cider.
Certain yeast and bacteria can metabolize ethanol into acetic acid (vinegar), but only in the presence of oxygen. This means the rate of souring is limited by the amount of oxygen in the bottle and amount of oxygen flowing through the cap seal.
Swing top seals allow more oxygen into the bottle than standard caps, so I don't recommend swing top bottles. I would guess that even with these bottles, production of enough acetic acid to make it "sour" will take a long time, at least 6 months, probably longer.
Lactic acid bacteria metabolize malic acid into lactic acid, making the cider taste LESS sour. This malolactic fermentation process can take weeks to months to complete.
These processes will only occur in wild ciders without adequate sulfite levels.
Cheers
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
Dag nabbit, will you stop teaching me stuff?
I have been slowly collecting swing tops thinking that they would have a better seal since they hold carb pressure.
I have been slowly collecting swing tops thinking that they would have a better seal since they hold carb pressure.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Being able to hold pressure has to do with bottle thickness and shape.
Swing tops are still useable. Don't let me stop you.
Sulfite can delay significant oxygen issues for probably at least a year.
Also, if you're making clean cider from pasteurized juice, then acetic acid (and ethyl acetate) won't ever be a problem.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
Good. I can use them for things I know won't get to age
Baconator
New Member
Hi Blacksmith, like you I have been collecting swing top bottles as my research has never indicated that they can cause issues. Anything that you learn more on this topic, please do not hesitate to share.
Dag Nabit!
Dag Nabit!
Sequoiacider
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I have successfully used Swing Top bottles for ciders that I allowed to age for 2 years without problem. The Ciders were still perfectly carbonated with no signs of oxidation after 2 years.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
I figure the pressure of the carb is reponsible. But what about still beverages. Wines, meads, ciders. If the seals are O2 permeable, at least at a higher rate than cork, this could be an issue.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Carbonation does not affect oxygen permeation.
There aren't any technical studies published comparing swing tops to other closure types, but we know both the rubber gasket and plastic top are both oxygen permeable. The permeability of such a membrane is related to the material type, thickness, and area. Thickness of the gasket is radically lower than synthetic corks, making it very likely to be more oxygen permeable.
There are plenty of studies comparing natural cork products to synthetic.
Whether people can detect or even whether they prefer oxidation is another matter, which I won't debate.
Cheers
There aren't any technical studies published comparing swing tops to other closure types, but we know both the rubber gasket and plastic top are both oxygen permeable. The permeability of such a membrane is related to the material type, thickness, and area. Thickness of the gasket is radically lower than synthetic corks, making it very likely to be more oxygen permeable.
There are plenty of studies comparing natural cork products to synthetic.
Whether people can detect or even whether they prefer oxidation is another matter, which I won't debate.
Cheers
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
Interesting read. Guess I'm sticking to cork for long term storage.
