Maximum bananas for Hefe yeast?

[MrFancyPlants]

My BIL is coming to visit, and he likes banana profile in his heffes. Can you recommend a yeast and ferm temp for a lot of banana.
I really want the yeast to go bananas.

 

[MaxStout]

WY3068 can do that. Underpitch it and ferment toward the high end of its temp range.

 

[hotbeer]

Hops make a difference too for banana flavors and aroma. Are you using any Jarrylo hops?

 

[dmtaylor]

WLP300 has a good deal of banana as well. Underpitching is a must, but there seems to be debate whether fermentation in the mid 60s or low 70s is better to promote it.

 

[Red over White]

Here's a mash schedule to increase ester production in the ferment. There is a link in the article to the original paper in German.

https://dafteejit.com/tag/herrmann/

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Omega Yeast OYL-400 BANANZA

 

[Graham H]

Has he tried a Bananaweizen?

https://greatist.com/eat/bananenweizen-banana-wheat-beer#1

 

[shavy]

I too have had success with WLP300. Low 60s fermentation. It’s a banana-bubble gum bomb.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I too have had success with WLP300. Low 60s fermentation. It’s a banana-bubble gum bomb.

Thanks everyone for the advice. BIL said he did lower fermentation temperature for banana. I was surprised I thought you wanted to go hot like saison or kveik for the more expressive yeast.
Do you think pressure ferment would be a bad idea. Is that going to tamp out all the esters? What about at one or two psi.
And if I want to rush it can I warm it up after the under-pitch and lag phases?

 

[dmtaylor]

Don't ferment a hefeweizen under any pressure. I know at New Glarus they found any amount of pressure to be problematic so for their hefe they have wide open primary fermenters, literally topless.

You can definitely warm it up if you want after the first 36-48 hours of active fermentation.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Don't ferment a hefeweizen under any pressure. I know at New Glarus they found any amount of pressure to be problematic so for their hefe they have wide open primary fermenters, literally topless.

You can definitely warm it up if you want after the first 36-48 hours of active fermentation.

Awesome, thanks. I got rid of the glass carboys, so I’ll make a 10G batch in my 15.5G torpedo and leave the lid ajar. Maybe I’ll put some foil over the top to keep the flies out? They sneak into the garage sometimes.
I still haven’t quite decided what yeast to go with, but I have a couple months to read over your posts and decide.

 

[beren]

Awesome, thanks. I got rid of the glass carboys, so I’ll make a 10G batch in my 15.5G torpedo and leave the lid ajar. Maybe I’ll put some foil over the top to keep the flies out? They sneak into the garage sometimes.
I still haven’t quite decided what yeast to go with, but I have a couple months to read over your posts and decide.

Could use cheese cloth with a starsan spray down every so often.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I have used Lallemand Abbaye for a couple of beers containing wheat, and it definitely produced a lot of bananas at 68. It also ferments faster than WB-06. Abbaye is the Fedex of yeast. Use it if your beer absolutely, positively has to be there in 5 days.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Has he tried a Bananaweizen?

https://greatist.com/eat/bananenweizen-banana-wheat-beer#1

Maybe instead of bananaweizen, I’ll just do an early dry-banana or two?

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I was at a Paulner brewery and the head brewer emphasized no pressure (open) fermentation on their hefe. When I ask how he did it, he pointed to the floor where the blow off tube terminated and it was just hanging there (not in the bucket of solution) and said "no pressure, none." He also did a very low acid rest in the mash, 40c. Once past high krausen he got the spunding valve in place.

 

[beren]

my first beer was supposed to be an allagash clone. It fermented too warm and turned into a banana bomb. T58 yeast started at 68, drove itself up to 74-76.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

I've always gotten plenty of banana flavor with Lallemand Munich Classic Dry Yeast, slight under pitched and fermented between 68f and 70f. I've never needed to use any of the more expensive liquid yeast for my hefeweizens.

DMF

 

[SFC Rudy]

I open ferment with Lallemand Munich Classic and that is what makes my Hefeweizen rivals most of those I drank while I was stationed in Germany.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I wanted to run another fermentation by HBT. “El Heffe’s Bananaweissen” isn’t coming until January, and before then I am doing an ESB today. And a citra/Pilsner SMASH in between.
For the ESB I am leaning toward an “open” ferment to coax some fruitiness out of the M15 Empire Ale yeast. Some things mentioned earlier in the thread: to maximize esters were starting higher gravity, under pitching, 0 pressure, warmer fermentation.

I am thinking for this M15 ESB. I’ll do cheesecloth over the top of the torpedo and start around the upper end of the yeast 70f and let it free rise above that. I am brewing roughly double the recommended batch size for a packet of yeast for the under-pitch.. no rehydrating. After a day or two of high Krausen , I was thinking to top off the fermenter with cool water (not boiled), massive dry-hop, and pressure ferment from there.

What do you think? Green apple ESB? Or does it stand a chance of turning out any good?

 

[dmtaylor]

I wanted to run another fermentation by HBT. “El Heffe’s Bananaweissen” isn’t coming until January, and before then I am doing an ESB today. And a citra/Pilsner SMASH in between.
For the ESB I am leaning toward an “open” ferment to coax some fruitiness out of the M15 Empire Ale yeast. Some things mentioned earlier in the thread: to maximize esters were starting higher gravity, under pitching, 0 pressure, warmer fermentation.

I am thinking for this M15 ESB. I’ll do cheesecloth over the top of the torpedo and start around the upper end of the yeast 70f and let it free rise above that. I am brewing roughly double the recommended batch size for a packet of yeast for the under-pitch.. no rehydrating. After a day or two of high Krausen , I was thinking to top off the fermenter with cool water (not boiled), massive dry-hop, and pressure ferment from there.

What do you think? Green apple ESB? Or does it stand a chance of turning out any good?

It might turn out great. Just be aware, M15 can't eat maltotriose at all, so expect attenuation of 60% or less, and FG of 1.025 or higher. If that's not what you want, then consider using a different yeast, or co-pitch with two yeasts. Fermentation will finish within 36 hours unless you co-pitch.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

It might turn out great. Just be aware, M15 can't eat maltotriose at all, so expect attenuation of 60% or less, and FG of 1.025 or higher. If that's not what you want, then consider using a different yeast, or co-pitch with two yeasts. Fermentation will finish within 36 hours unless you co-pitch.

Awesome, great info. If I co-pitched, which yeast would you recommend?
I do want to keep it somewhat thicker body and sweet like fullers.. but I don’t know about 1.025.

Co pitch options on hand:
M12 kveik
S05
BR-8
Abbaye

Maybe I’ll taste with the M15 solo first. I was hoping for a crowd pleaser for the holidays and maybe something sweeter will work out with the 2# Northern Brewer and Glacier hops.

I did throw in my white oak yeast logs that I cycled at 170 in the oven several times over the last couple days. I would think they are pretty well sanitized but I could even get a diastatic yeast through the logs, though I’m hoping not.

 

[dmtaylor]

Maybe try M15 on its own first. Then consider adding the M12 if it’s not quite what you’d hoped for. The other yeasts might not be great for this style.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Kveik instead of the S05? If it’s too sweet, I could try splitting it out into smaller kegs, too. maybe one with kveik and one with the Brett.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Oops, the M15 “free-rose” up to 84f. I topped it off with some refrigerated water, dry-hopped and put it under pressure. Hopefully it doesn’t turn into green apple ale.
It started a nice creamy head at 74f.. I wish I had been paying better attention. Fingers crossed.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Oops, the M15 “free-rose” up to 84f. I topped it off with some refrigerated water, dry-hopped and put it under pressure. Hopefully it doesn’t turn into green apple ale.
It started a nice creamy head at 74f.. I wish I had been paying better attention. Fingers crossed.

I think I was spoiled by pressure fermenting and kveik.