Matching finished water profiles - Bru'n

[BlackFurnaceBrewing]

Hopefully, someone can help with a concern I have trying to match water profiles for my beers. After considerable research, I have come up with desired water profiles for for each of my beers. I then use Bru'n to help me figure out my mash, sparge and kettle additions.

My question is this: after completing my boil, have I not now increased my mineral concentrations. For example, if I treat my RO water to achieve 60 ppm Ca via salt additions in my mash water. Will I not increase this concentration to 75 or 80 (est) ppm after boiling off a couple of gallons. Maybe this is not a big deal in this example and I am possibly over thinking this, but inquiring brew minds want to know!

Thanks!

 

[PeteNMA]

It's not nearly that simple. Calcium for example is actually precipitated as calcium phosphate during mashing and yet more is consumed by the yeast.

Also, where are you getting your residual mineral amounts from? As brewers we usually only consider the ongoing water profile and use a combination of wisdom and experience to manipulate the water in a favourable manner.

I can't think of having seen recipes which detail the residual mineral content in the beer, only ever that of the brewing water.

 

[ncsuwerewolf]

If you treat the water to match the profile you are looking for , say dublin for a good dry irish. The boil off and concentration is similar as they boil off as well. Otherwise its brew the same beer over and over and tinker. Issue is you have to be able to brew the same beer over and over prior to ensure you have your process down and consistant results. A control group. If you cannot repeat a beer with the same result water is less of an issue.

 

[BlackFurnaceBrewing]

It's not nearly that simple. Calcium for example is actually precipitated as calcium phosphate during mashing and yet more is consumed by the yeast.

Also, where are you getting your residual mineral amounts from? As brewers we usually only consider the ongoing water profile and use a combination of wisdom and experience to manipulate the water in a favourable manner.

I can't think of having seen recipes which detail the residual mineral content in the beer, only ever that of the brewing water.

ok, maybe I have confused some terminology. Say I settle on a profile of (ppm) 50 Ca, 5 Mg, 0 Na, 60 SO4 and 35 CL. This is what would head into my kettle/tun and would match up the Bru'ns final water profile line.....NOT what goes into the fermenter as I was thinking. If so, you guys have helped me un-confuse myself!

 

[mabrungard]

Its not worth worrying about how much you are concentrating your ionic content in most brewing. However, if you are boiling off a bunch of water, then you do need to worry. In my experience, if you are boiling off more than about 10 to 15% of your original volume, then you DO need to worry about how much you are concentrating the ions and reduce the mineral additions a bit. I find that brewers that produce small batches are more susceptible to high boil off percentage. They need to think twice about adding elevated levels of any ion. For example, if you are starting with 2 gal and end with 1 gal after an hour of boiling, then your boil off is 50% and that has significantly concentrated ions. If you started with 7 gal and boil off a gallon in an hour, then you are only at 15% boil off which is OK. Don't think about boil loss just in terms of gallons per hour, think about the percent of volume lost.

 

[PeteNMA]

ok, maybe I have confused some terminology. Say I settle on a profile of (ppm) 50 Ca, 5 Mg, 0 Na, 60 SO4 and 35 CL. This is what would head into my kettle/tun and would match up the Bru'ns final water profile line.....NOT what goes into the fermenter as I was thinking. If so, you guys have helped me un-confuse myself!

Thats right. Your mash and sparge water should have the relevant minerals at the appropriate concentrations. Read Martin's post above this one though, this is assuming that you are not boiling off too much of your total volume, and that you are brewing all-grain.

I found in terms of water profiles to target that this guide is a much better place to start:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2008/09/i-think-that-water-treatment-has-made.html

 

[monkeyman1000]

Interesting post. I had to go back and look at my recipes. I do BIAB and after removing the bag/grains I start with about 4.5 gallons. After the boil I have about 3.3 gallons at boiling temps or 3.2 gallons at pitching temps. I adjust my water to hit a certain mash pH. I don't go overboard with anything ( I usually just add some gypsum and/or CACL2 and maybe some acid ). Do I need to decrease my boil off rate? I am boiling off about .92 gallons per hour ( I do 75 minute boils usually).

 

[BlackFurnaceBrewing]

Thanks for all of the replies guys. Lot of food for thought here. I found that link early in my research, Pete. Great info there. I also recommend Kaminski/Palmer's book: Water.

I am brewing all-grain: 5, 8 and 10 gallon batches. While my BO rate is not crazy - 1.0g/hr, I have been doing 90 minute boils, exclusively. After Martin's post, though, I am going to pare that back a bit, especially on my 5 gallon batches. I may keep the 5g batches at the lower end of my mineral ranges, too, knowing that they may have the tendency to concentrate during the boil.