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Man, I love Apfelwein

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I've made multiple batches of apfelwein over the years and, like many of us here, I'm prone to tinker. I also ferment mead, and have had excellent results using Wyeast 1388 (Belgian strong ale) for apfelwein using the Bray's One Month Mead approach. I'm currently running low so am gearing up for another batch--this time I am inclined to try my hand at a cyser. I've deviated from the original recipe so much it's not really an EdWort's Apfelwein anymore, but that's certainly the foundation. What's the fun of homebrew if you don't tweak and experiment and explore? 😁
 
I've made multiple batches of apfelwein over the years and, like many of us here, I'm prone to tinker. I also ferment mead, and have had excellent results using Wyeast 1388 (Belgian strong ale) for apfelwein using the Bray's One Month Mead approach. I'm currently running low so am gearing up for another batch--this time I am inclined to try my hand at a cyser. I've deviated from the original recipe so much it's not really an EdWort's Apfelwein anymore, but that's certainly the foundation. What's the fun of homebrew if you don't tweak and experiment and explore? 😁
That's the spirit!
 
When you bottle your apfelwein, what type of bottles do you use? Thinking about using swing tops instead of pop tops. Any thoughts pro or con?

Thanks in advance.
 
Thanks Balrog! Kinda thought that either one would work but didn't know if there was an advantage to either one.
Did you carbonate or bottle still? If carbonated, did the swing tops hold pressure OK? I plan to carbonate according to the original recipe (3/4 cup dextrose to the 5 gal batch).
I bottled my first 3 gal run from last year w/o carbonating and used 750 ml wine bottles. Was very please with the outcome.
Thanks again.
'Paw
 
Thanks Balrog! Kinda thought that either one would work but didn't know if there was an advantage to either one.
Did you carbonate or bottle still? If carbonated, did the swing tops hold pressure OK? I plan to carbonate according to the original recipe (3/4 cup dextrose to the 5 gal batch).
I bottled my first 3 gal run from last year w/o carbonating and used 750 ml wine bottles. Was very please with the outcome.
Thanks again.
'Paw
Until this most recent batch (#13, half cranberry half apple juices), I always bottled, siphon from ferment bucket to bottling bucket, calculate and gently stir in priming sugar solution (sometimes corn sugar, sometimes mix of corn and brown sugar, ended up not liking brown sugar), and bottle. Swing tops that are GOOD for beer are good for apfelwein as I don't carb much above 2.8 volumes calculated. When I had trouble with swing tops, beer and apfelwein, was a dozen I got from china that had much harder orange plastic gaskets, which would take a set. I switched out with softer red gasket and have never had an issue.
 
WOW! You brewers are a strange bunch!!😉 I'm a winemaker and we're generally trying to get rid of CO2 not produce it so this priming/volumes of CO2 thing is completely foreign to me!!!:oops:

I checked out the beer priming calculator provided by Brewer's Friend and came up with the following:
If I use your suggested volume of 2.8 with 5 gals of must/wine (or whatever you guys call it:p) at 70 F, I should prime with ~4.6 oz of dextrose. Is that right or even close? EdWort's original recipe called for 3/4 cup (not sure what the weight in ounces would be) but seem to be a lot more than the 4.6 oz the calculator suggested.

I'll certainly heed your advice on the swing tops. My original plan had been to use Yuengling twist off bottles that I had been saving and fit them with Ferroday adaptors (https://www.amazon.com/Ferroday-Swi...g+top+adaptors+for+bottles,aps,84&sr=8-4&th=1) but may be having 2nd thoughts now. I would probably put the dedicated bottles to regular use but hate wasting good bottles (if Yuengling is acceptable) not to mention $$.

Anyway would appreciate your thoughts on my calculations and bottle plans and thanks so much for the info you've already provided.

Bearpaw
 
@bearpaw8491
I have never tried retrofitted beer bottles to swing tops, and had never seen those you linked on Amazon. So I cannot say whether they are or are not a good idea. Someone like @day_trippr or @doug293cz have seen so very much more than I and may have an opinion.

As for carbing, I do prefer my apfelwein sparkling not still which is why I do what I do. For calculating, you use the temp at which the apfelwein fermented. If you then chill it, you do not use the chilled to temp. If you have 5 gallons, fermented at 70, I would likely go more toward 2.6 volumes than 2.8, but it's personal preference.

I like the Brewer's Friend calculators, but I don't get your values. When I plug in 5..0 gallons, 70F ferment, 2.8 volumes, I get 5.8oz corn sugar (dextrose). I personally would go 2.6 volumes and use 5.2oz corn sugar.
 
WOW! You brewers are a strange bunch!!😉 I'm a winemaker and we're generally trying to get rid of CO2 not produce it so this priming/volumes of CO2 thing is completely foreign to me!!!:oops:

I checked out the beer priming calculator provided by Brewer's Friend and came up with the following:
If I use your suggested volume of 2.8 with 5 gals of must/wine (or whatever you guys call it:p) at 70 F, I should prime with ~4.6 oz of dextrose. Is that right or even close? EdWort's original recipe called for 3/4 cup (not sure what the weight in ounces would be) but seem to be a lot more than the 4.6 oz the calculator suggested.

I'll certainly heed your advice on the swing tops. My original plan had been to use Yuengling twist off bottles that I had been saving and fit them with Ferroday adaptors (https://www.amazon.com/Ferroday-Swing-Bottle-Replacement-Gaskets/dp/B07FZVZR69/) but may be having 2nd thoughts now. I would probably put the dedicated bottles to regular use but hate wasting good bottles (if Yuengling is acceptable) not to mention $$.

Anyway would appreciate your thoughts on my calculations and bottle plans and thanks so much for the info you've already provided.

Bearpaw

@bearpaw8491
I have never tried retrofitted beer bottles to swing tops, and had never seen those you linked on Amazon. So I cannot say whether they are or are not a good idea. Someone like @day_trippr or @doug293cz have seen so very much more than I and may have an opinion.

As for carbing, I do prefer my apfelwein sparkling not still which is why I do what I do. For calculating, you use the temp at which the apfelwein fermented. If you then chill it, you do not use the chilled to temp. If you have 5 gallons, fermented at 70, I would likely go more toward 2.6 volumes than 2.8, but it's personal preference.

I like the Brewer's Friend calculators, but I don't get your values. When I plug in 5..0 gallons, 70F ferment, 2.8 volumes, I get 5.8oz corn sugar (dextrose). I personally would go 2.6 volumes and use 5.2oz corn sugar.
Twist-off crown cap bottles are not recommended for reuse. They are generally somewhat thinner glass than the pry-off crown cap bottles, and they don't seal at all well with home type crown cap crimpers. The thinner glass creates more potential for bottle bombs, especially at higher levels of carbonation.

The flip top caps you show use silicone gaskets for sealing. Unfortunately, silicone elastomers allow orders of magnitude more oxygen diffusion into the bottles than do gaskets made from other materials, so are not recommended for long term storage of beer. I don't know enough about ciders to say whether or not oxidation is as much a concern with them as it is with beer.

Brew on :mug:
 
Thanks to you both for the help:thumbsup:!
Balrog: Really weird! I plugged my numbers back into the calculator and got 5.8 oz too. Guess I could have gotten "fat-fingered" on the keyboard but all is good and will go with your 2. 6 value and 5.2 oz dextrose.
Doug293cz: Thanks for jumping in and giving me some insight on reuse of bottles. Guess the 75 or so Yuengling bottles will be making a trip to the recycle center and my LHBS will be getting my unanticipated business. Really appreciate the heads-up on the gasket material; will be another thing to keep in mind. I always try to get pointers when I start a new endeavor - generally less painful. My old granny told me once when I was 6 yrs old; "If you can't listen, you can feel". She was right!
Really think you guys should come over to winemaking - a lot less trouble - step on the grapes, put 'em in a bucket, pour the juice in a bottle and cork! Well, a little more than that but you get the idea!!!😂😂
 
It is time. Plus Costco has Motts on sale.

1741539584307.png
 
What ratio have you settled on for the 2 juices? Above you said 50/50, but here you have more apple than cranberry, and it looks like the cranberry bottles are smaller.
3 apple to 2 cranberry--not "Cranberry Juice Blend" but "Cranberry Juice Cocktail" as the former has cran/apple/grape and definitely not tart enough for me. What I was trying to duplicate was upstate New York's Beak & Skiff 1911 Cranberry cider, which is only available around Christmas.

What I actually make, depends on laziness and availability. Costco has Motts in twin gallons and Ocean Spray in twin 96oz, and so this batch is 3gal apple to 1.5 cran, becuz.
 
4569-ApfelweinBench.jpg

Apfelwein - Fermenting

Award Winning Apfelwein Recipe (German Hard Cider) Apple Wine Recipe
Placed 1st in the Cider & Apple Wine category at the BJCP sanctioned Alamo Cerveza fest (out of 11 entries) and took 2nd place for Best of Show for the main category of Meads & Ciders (out of 50 entries).

Ingredients

5 Gallons 100% Apple Juice (No preservatives or additives) I use Tree Top Apple Juice
2 pounds of dextrose (corn sugar) in one pound bags
1 five gram packet of Montrachet Wine Yeast

Equipment

5 Gallon Carboy (I use a Better Bottle)
Carboy Cap or Stopper with Airlock
Funnel
  1. First sanitize the carboy, airlock, funnel, stopper or carboy cap.
  2. Open one gallon bottle of apple juice and pour half of it into the carboy using the funnel.
  3. Open one bag of Dextrose and carefully add it to the now half full bottle of apple juice. Shake well.
  4. Repeat Steps 2 and 3, then go to step 5.
  5. Pour in the mixture of Apple Juice and Dextrose from both bottles into the carboy.
  6. Add all but 1 quart of remaining 3 gallons of apple juice to the carboy.
  7. Open the packet of Montrachet Yeast and pour it into the neck of the funnel.
  8. Use the remaining quart of juice to wash down any yeast that sticks. I am able to fit all but 3 ounces of apple juice into a 5 gallon Better Bottle. You may need to be patient to let the foam die down from all shaking and pouring.
  9. Put your stopper or carboy cap on with an airlock and fill the airlock with cheap vodka. No bacteria will live in vodka and if you get suckback, you just boosted the abv.
There’s no need to worry about filling up a carboy so full when you use Montrachet wine yeast. There is no Kreuzen, just a thin layer of bubbles (). I'm able to fit all but 4 oz. of my five gallons in the bottle. Ferment at room temperature.

It will become cloudy in a couple of days and remain so for a few weeks. In the 4th week, the yeast will begin to drop out and it will become clear. After at least 4 weeks, you can keg or bottle, but it is ok to leave it in the carboy for another month or so. Racking to a secondary is not necessary. It ferments out very dry (less than 0.999, see here)

Apfelwein really improves with age, so if you can please let it sit in a carboy for up to 3 months before bottling or kegging, then let it sit even longer. Here's what some folks think.



If you want to bottle and carbonate, ¾ cup of corn sugar will work fine. Use as you would carbonate a batch of beer.

Remember to reserve judgment till after 3 glasses. It grows on you.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND START ANOTHER BATCH 2 WEEKS AFTER YOU START THIS ONE.
YOU WILL THANK ME LATER!
:D


GENERAL QUESTIONS
compiled by Dammed Squirrels from the first 37 pages of this thread. Thanks DS!

How does it taste?
It ferments quite dry. Some people have tried different yeasts in order to achieve a sweeter taste. It may take you a few glasses to get a feel for the flavor. It is very reminiscent of a sort of apfelwein produced locally in Germany. There really is no comparable product in the United States. It's drier and less sweet than commercial hard ciders. It gets better with age and at 6+ months, the apple flavor really comes out.

How do you sweeten it?
Many folks back sweeten it with Wine Conditioner. Wine Conditioner is a blend of sucrose and sorbic acid. The addition of 2-4 oz. per gallon adds sweetness and prevents renewed fermentation. It can be purchased as any LHBS that caters to wine makers. Others will use Splenda or lactose (other non-fermentable sugars). Germans who prefer it sweet (or Suß as they say) will add a splash of Sprite or 7up to a glass. This is the easiest method as you don't have to make a whole "sweet" batch that way.

What is the difference between Apfelwein and hard cider?
EdWort says, “Most ciders are a bit sweeter. Ciders and Apfelwein are about 6% abv, but I like the little boost I give it with 2 pounds of Dextrose. It adds no body or flavor and still tastes like Possmann's Apfelwein, only it will kick your butt much quicker.”

Is this like Apfelmost / Apfel Korn?
No. Apfel Korn is a german liqeur made from wheat spirits. Apfelmost is spontaneously fermented with fresh-pressed apples or apple juice. It is probably similar, but the results may vary as a result of the spontaneous fermentation. Either way, Apfelmost is most certainly has a lower alcohol content since the initial gravity is not increased by the use of concentrate or corn sugar.

What’s the difference between apple juice and cider?
Cider is made by pressing apples. Juice is then filtered to remove all of the stuff that makes it cloudy.

Can I use apple cider instead?
Sure! You can use whatever you want. However, there is not enough information in this thread to give you any better details as to how it will turn out. I recommend starting a new thread or ask more experienced cider-makers.

What kind of Apple Juice should I use?
Ideally, you want to use 100% natural apple juice with no preservatives. The only acceptable preservative is ascorbic acid, which is a source of vitamin C and does not affect fermentation. Pasteurized juice is preferred, since it will have less bacteria.

How much will this recipe cost me?
5 gallons of Apfelwein can be made for between 20 and 25 dollars.

What else can you do with this recipe?
EdWort says, "this makes a great Grog in the winter time. Take a quart in a sauce pan, add some rum, turbinado sugar, and float a cinnamon stick in it and simmer for a while. Serve hot in mugs. It'll warm you right up."


ApfelweinWarning.jpg


Drink a quart of water and take 3 aspirin before going to sleep tol help reduce the effects of excessive Apfelwein consumption as well as the urge to call EdWort a M'F**kR the next morning!
:D

Dude you’re a legend. Just hopped in after almost 20 years as my eye caught a kombucha thread from the googles. Used to get hammered off this stuff in college and it was one I always kept going in case one of my beers went sideways. All you needed was to keep some extra $1 yeast packets (probably more now) around and a quick trip to the Wally mart and you had yourself a brew day in a pinch. Brown sugar worked pretty well as did honey if I recall correctly.
 
I've had a carboy or three of this made.... Apfelwein (AW) and some plain Apple Juice (AJ)

cheapest AJ I could find with only Ascorbic Acid as preservative (No Name Brand from SuperStore)
plain old white sugar sourced from cane (Rogers)
Lalvin EC-1118 yeast. Local shop had no Montrachet, and I had a lot of EC-1118 from previous ferments...
fermented in the basement at about 15C

Wife found it a bit off
So I made some with plain AJ, no added sugars

I like the AW, but my wife finds the AJ to be a nice drink

I thought the AJ tasted like Chardonnay, so I put 5 different bottles of Chardonnay up against my AJ, and there was one EXACT match
I mean exact. the clarity, colour, taste, mouthfeel.... all exactly the same. You'd think I messed up and poured the wine in place of my AJ!
I can't imagine spending another dime on Chardonnay, I don't care what the snoots say.
I'd like a real wino to do a blind comparison with my AJ/Chadonnay, I'd be interested to know the subtle differences a more refined palate can taste.

so if you like Chardonnay with a lower kick, try straight AJ and EC-1118, see if it works for you

I seem to lean to a bit of red in my taste for wines, so I would like to try an ALE yeast with mine, and extend the ALE yeast into the red juices for trials.

From Edwort's initial post, I've expanded a bit to using other juices/mixes to ferment.
OceanSpray Cran/Grape
OceanSpray White Cran
PC Cran/Black Cherry
PC Cran/Raspberry

for now, I'm using EC-1118, but this summer, Ima try the reds with ale yeast varieties.... I have a few different ones, and the nice thing about this the experiments come in their own mini carboys, right off the shelf.
once I find one that I REALLY like, I'll throw 3-4 carboys of it up.

I'm lazy, so my ferments sit in carboys for a long time some times.... If I remember, I'll rack them off the yeast, then they'll sit under airlock for months.
I've never had an issue with this.

I do want to prime some this round, as I think it'll be easier than mixing with soda....
We'll see.

Thanks Edwort for the inspiration to branch out from grains and into the world of juice!
 
Thought I’d update my experience with my first EdWorts apfelwein.
Followed the original recipe without exception starting on 30 Nov 2024. OG = 1.058 upped to 1.068. Racked to 2nd on 03 Dec when S/G dropped to 1.020. Remained in 2nd until 30 May ’25.
Transferred to bottling bucket and added 5 oz dextrose dissolved in 2 cups hot water. Added 1/4 tsp Kmeta. Bottled 60-12 bottles this date.

Doug293cz, et al had recommended that I NOT use the Yuengling twist off bottles I had been saving for some time; however, I had already purchased the Ferroday adaptors (https://www.amazon.com/Ferroday-Swi...g+top+adaptors+for+bottles,aps,84&sr=8-4&th=1) flip tops and decided to give it a go. So far, I have had no bottle bombs and the adaptors seem to be holding. This was my first shot at brewing (but long time winemaker) and am pleased with the outcome.
Thanks to all and as usual all comments/suggestions appreciated.
Happy 4th
Here a few pictures for your interest.


img_8704-jpg.879049
IMG_8706.JPG
 
Thought I’d update my experience with my first EdWorts apfelwein.
Followed the original recipe without exception starting on 30 Nov 2024. OG = 1.058 upped to 1.068. Racked to 2nd on 03 Dec when S/G dropped to 1.020. Remained in 2nd until 30 May ’25.
Transferred to bottling bucket and added 5 oz dextrose dissolved in 2 cups hot water. Added 1/4 tsp Kmeta. Bottled 60-12 bottles this date.

Doug293cz, et al had recommended that I NOT use the Yuengling twist off bottles I had been saving for some time; however, I had already purchased the Ferroday adaptors (https://www.amazon.com/Ferroday-Swi...g+top+adaptors+for+bottles,aps,84&sr=8-4&th=1) flip tops and decided to give it a go. So far, I have had no bottle bombs and the adaptors seem to be holding. This was my first shot at brewing (but long time winemaker) and am pleased with the outcome.
Thanks to all and as usual all comments/suggestions appreciated.
Happy 4th
Here a few pictures for your interest.


img_8704-jpg.879049
View attachment 879052

The flip-top adapters fix the major shortcoming of twist-off bottles, in that home style cap crimpers for crown caps don't give reliable seals.

The other potential shortcoming is that twist-off bottles tend to be thinner glass than standard bottles, since they are not returnable for reuse. This means that they can be more prone to creating bottle bombs if over carbonated or get an infection (which can lead to over carbonation.)

Brew on :mug:
 
Thanks doug293cz. I'll go with standard bottles and caps if this becomes a regular thing. I'm sure I can find another use for my current botttles and flip tops. Imagine the twist-offs would be more likely to fail the more cycles they see so better to be safe than sorry.
Considering a batch of Grahams English Cider next time. Seems most folks are happy using Nottingham. Any thoughts?
Will be busy this fall with my muscadines - vines are hanging full and expect a couple of hundred lbs!!! so let me know if you run out of stuff to do!!:D:D
 

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