I actually haven't had time to use it, so I can't comment on the taste differences. As for brewing differences, you have to treat mashing differently. I think the temperature needed to gelatinize the starches is higher then the enzymes can handle. So you need to do a decoction, remove the enzyme filled liquid part of the mash, boil the grain to gelatinize the starches and then add the enzymes back in.
Malting Gluten Free Grains
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Interesting, what about malting, is it easy to tell when it is at full modification?
uechikid
Well-Known Member
So what's the issue with the rootlets? After drying most will just fall off. Is there something wrong with them going into the mash?
OP
OP
uechikid
Well-Known Member
How about buckwheat? Does it also contain cyanide? If so I guess I shouldn't have been tasting those little buggers. 
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OP
OP
Not that I've heard
andrewdell19
Well-Known Member
Sweet another gluten free accountant!
First post, but not new to homebrewing. Before I had the gluten thing I used to brew beer a lot.
I will start malting some buckwheat, millet, and rice this weekend with the info I got on this and other websites. I will definately post what I find.
My most successful gluten free beer thus far is an Esspresso Stout. If anyone is interested (and I can find the correct thread I will post the recipe).
OP
OP
Yes another accountant!
The espresso stout sounds delicious and I'd love to see the recipe since you've already tried it out. And please- keep us updated on your malting.
The espresso stout sounds delicious and I'd love to see the recipe since you've already tried it out. And please- keep us updated on your malting.
aggieotis
Well-Known Member
I don't know if malting rice would be the best way to go. Feel free to give it a try, but if you want sugars from rice, then I would look up some sake recipes or adjunct brewing instructions for the rice.
How to make Sake:
http://goo.gl/VLdG
I'm sure there's also some good tips on this site for how to use rice as an adjunct in beer. Basically, just boil it for awhile to gelatinize the starches, then add it to the rest of the wort.
How to make Sake:
http://goo.gl/VLdG
I'm sure there's also some good tips on this site for how to use rice as an adjunct in beer. Basically, just boil it for awhile to gelatinize the starches, then add it to the rest of the wort.
andrewdell19
Well-Known Member
7lbs Sorghum Extract (I can only imagine how it would taste with malted millet and buckwheat)
2 lbs Molasses
1 oz Nugget (boil 60 mins)
1 oz Fuggle (boil 10 mins)
8 oz espresso (seep when water hits 150 degrees and leave in until 15 mins into the boil)
Yeast Danstar
1 lb dark roasted Buckwheat (crushed and roasted 30 mins in toaster oven 450 degrees- seep 20 mins prior to boil and 10 mins into the boil). I find that using the buckwheat definately gives the beer more head retention.
i also find that you can roast buckwheat and get a very good carmel/nutty flavor out of the seep. Buckwheat has definately added another dimension when using Sorghum Malt.
The stout definately gets very very very good after aging for about 4 months in the bottle.
OP
OP
I vote 100% buckwheat, I still don't know how I feel about bananas in beer. That's awesome that you malted that much...how large of a batch do you think you could make with that?
I heard that buckwheat only converts its starches at higher temperatures, so i was just wondering if anyone knows if you have to de-hull the grain after germination so that harsh tannins are not released into the mash when you bring its temperature higher than 165F?
I'll have to see a source before I believe that.
Either will sprout. I have had better success though with raw buckwheat that has only had the outer shell removed. If you use the raw buckwheat, i recomend to steep it for 1 hour, then let it sit in a cool dark place for the next couple of days, rinsing the grain to resomve the starchy goo 2-3 times a day. Within a couple of days the little rootlet that comes out of the grain should be somewhere around twice as long as the grain itself. Then, after drying you should have a well modified base malt, or you can roast it for alternative malt characteristics. Soaking time for buckwheat with the shell removed is less than with it still on, due to the rapid absorbtion of water that occurs when there is no shell to penetrate. I suspect that i have been contracting tannins by using bukwheat with the shells, so i would recomend staying away from them, unless you have an efficient method for removing the shells.
Optimum steeping time for germination is 7-13hr for buckwheat. Hull-on, I believe...
With hulled buckwheat, optimized mash is 15min @ 35C, 15min @ 45C, 40min @ 65C, 30min @ 72C and 10min @ 78C . Grist/liquor ratio of 1:4
In the real world, I'd do 20min @ 40 and 60min@ 65 w/ a mashout at 72 or something.
Hopefully this helps someone, doesnt discuss tannins from what I read (skimmed)... so that might be a separate battle...
This info is by Wijngaard and Arendt, published in Journal of the Institute of Brewing, 2006 vol 112 No.1
I might have to make an all buckwheat pale and see what happens ...so much to brew, so little time... 
With hulled buckwheat, optimized mash is 15min @ 35C, 15min @ 45C, 40min @ 65C, 30min @ 72C and 10min @ 78C . Grist/liquor ratio of 1:4
In the real world, I'd do 20min @ 40 and 60min@ 65 w/ a mashout at 72 or something.
Hopefully this helps someone, doesnt discuss tannins from what I read (skimmed)... so that might be a separate battle...
This info is by Wijngaard and Arendt, published in Journal of the Institute of Brewing, 2006 vol 112 No.1
I might have to make an all buckwheat pale and see what happens
...so much to brew, so little time... I'm not sure... I just included any relevant info that I could find while skimming that article. I was actually looking at the article for an unrelated purpose and it got me thinking, so I searched the forum and found that people are experimenting with buckwheat. Wish I could help more--maybe I'll do another search tomorrow if I have time.
celiacsurvivor
Well-Known Member
here is a link to the article that Strave19 was talking about and other one that is quite useful.
http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/contents/2006_112_1.htm
http://www.aaccnet.org/meetings/2006/abstracts/o-5.htm
http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/contents/2006_112_1.htm
http://www.aaccnet.org/meetings/2006/abstracts/o-5.htm
OP
OP
I've looked at both of those. They help some but some of the things in the scientific papers just go right over my head...and I don't have the equipment or patience to do what they were doing. Good find though! Any one else had success using home malted gluten free grains in a mash lately?
OP
OP
Here's an interesting post I saw with some videos. I didn't have a chance watch them but I think the setup he has and his process might give some ideas on setup.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/how-i-make-all-my-own-malt-188337/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/how-i-make-all-my-own-malt-188337/
celiacsurvivor
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have any idea of the ppg you an expect from GF malts?
I have just malted about 750g (1 1/2 lbs) of buckwheat and will be trying a brew with it soon, but it would be good to have an idea of the expected ppg before I start.
Otherwise how do I calculate this myself? Is it just from the gravity reading I get after the mash and sparge?
I have just malted about 750g (1 1/2 lbs) of buckwheat and will be trying a brew with it soon, but it would be good to have an idea of the expected ppg before I start.
Otherwise how do I calculate this myself? Is it just from the gravity reading I get after the mash and sparge?
If the mash volume + Sparge Volume = Batch Size, then yes.
If not, you would need to take the measurement the same way, but then adjust it for your top off water. (ie if you measure 1.010 and you are using 3 gallons and topping off with 2, you would multiply the 10pts by 3/5 to get 6pts or 1.006.
I don't think anyone really knows the answer to the PPG question, people seem to be all over the place.
celiacsurvivor
Well-Known Member
I brewed an ale with the buckwheat that I malted.
Here is my malting process;
I wrapped 1kg of buckwheat in a square of cheesecloth, tied a knot in the top and soaked in water. I have a two bucket system, the insdie bucket has lots of holes in it to let the water drain out and sits inside a bigger bucket with room at the bottom for an aquarium heater. This allows me to keep the soaking water at a constant temperature, in this case it was ~28C.
I soaked it for 2 hours then rinsed them off and changed the water, then left overnight ~7 hours. I rinsed them again and then laid them on my malting tray.
This is a three part system, the bottom part has a container of water that I put the aquarium heater in to keep the air warm and moist. The middle layer is wire mesh and I lay the grain on this. Then there is a lid with an extractor fan on it to help with drying the grain after malting.
This is the buckwheat after 3 days.
I was going to use my malting box to dry this but decided to use the oven instead. I put it into trays and put it in the oven on the lowest setting. This took several hours to completely dry.
Then I stuck it all in a pillow case, tied the top, and put it in the clothes dry on cold cycle for 3 20 min cycles to help remove the roots and shoots.
This didnt' work very well and I still had quite a few roots and shoots in the final product. I might try roasting them lightly next time to help make the roots even more brittle.
In the end I had about 750g of malted buckwheat, and it smelled and tasted great, sweet and nutty.
I ground it quite fine - not quite to a flour, then mashed with 3L of water as follows;
15 min at 35°C
15 min at 45°C
40 min at 65°C
30 min at 72°C
10 min at 78°C
This absorbed a lot of water after the 65C step and I had to add another couple of litres because it was basically a really thick porridge. I will probably mash with twice as much water next time.
Lautering and sparging was a nightmare.
I don't have a proper lauter ton so I put it all on a cheesecloth in a big sieve and let it drain through. It got stuck alot and took over 2 hours to go through. This is an image of a smaller sieve that I started with then moved to a larger one.
After that I had about 2 litres of wort at about 1016.
Here is the recipe I followed on the 7th of October.
Malted Buckwheat Ale
~2L buckwheat Wort ppg 1016
3L water
300g sorghum syrup
50g Dark Candi Syrup (SRM 82)
8g Pacifica hops (60 mins)
5g Cascade hops (12 mins)
4g Cascade hops (0 mins)
Irish moss (10 mins)
OG - 1026
This was bubbling away nicely the next morning, and has stopped bubbling now exactly a week later. I will leave it in the primary for another week or so and then bottle.
Here it is next to my Modified Amercian Brown Ale. Can't wait to taste them both.
Here is my malting process;
I wrapped 1kg of buckwheat in a square of cheesecloth, tied a knot in the top and soaked in water. I have a two bucket system, the insdie bucket has lots of holes in it to let the water drain out and sits inside a bigger bucket with room at the bottom for an aquarium heater. This allows me to keep the soaking water at a constant temperature, in this case it was ~28C.
I soaked it for 2 hours then rinsed them off and changed the water, then left overnight ~7 hours. I rinsed them again and then laid them on my malting tray.
This is a three part system, the bottom part has a container of water that I put the aquarium heater in to keep the air warm and moist. The middle layer is wire mesh and I lay the grain on this. Then there is a lid with an extractor fan on it to help with drying the grain after malting.
This is the buckwheat after 3 days.
I was going to use my malting box to dry this but decided to use the oven instead. I put it into trays and put it in the oven on the lowest setting. This took several hours to completely dry.
Then I stuck it all in a pillow case, tied the top, and put it in the clothes dry on cold cycle for 3 20 min cycles to help remove the roots and shoots.
This didnt' work very well and I still had quite a few roots and shoots in the final product. I might try roasting them lightly next time to help make the roots even more brittle.
In the end I had about 750g of malted buckwheat, and it smelled and tasted great, sweet and nutty.
I ground it quite fine - not quite to a flour, then mashed with 3L of water as follows;
15 min at 35°C
15 min at 45°C
40 min at 65°C
30 min at 72°C
10 min at 78°C
This absorbed a lot of water after the 65C step and I had to add another couple of litres because it was basically a really thick porridge. I will probably mash with twice as much water next time.
Lautering and sparging was a nightmare.
I don't have a proper lauter ton so I put it all on a cheesecloth in a big sieve and let it drain through. It got stuck alot and took over 2 hours to go through. This is an image of a smaller sieve that I started with then moved to a larger one.
After that I had about 2 litres of wort at about 1016.
Here is the recipe I followed on the 7th of October.
Malted Buckwheat Ale
~2L buckwheat Wort ppg 1016
3L water
300g sorghum syrup
50g Dark Candi Syrup (SRM 82)
8g Pacifica hops (60 mins)
5g Cascade hops (12 mins)
4g Cascade hops (0 mins)
Irish moss (10 mins)
OG - 1026
This was bubbling away nicely the next morning, and has stopped bubbling now exactly a week later. I will leave it in the primary for another week or so and then bottle.
Here it is next to my Modified Amercian Brown Ale. Can't wait to taste them both.
OP
OP
That's what I am talking about!! At some point I was planning to make that malting box, but I don't have any room for it right now.
You are right on drying the grains though. Once I'm done malting I put them on a try lined with a towel and let a fan blow on them overnight. Then they go onto a mesh tray into the oven. The drier you get malt the easier it is to knock off the roots and shoots. Some will even fall off after the oven drying and the rest will come off in the dryer.
The mesh screen I used was perfect for getting out the dried roots and shoots since it fell straight through the mesh.
Thanks for posting this!
You are right on drying the grains though. Once I'm done malting I put them on a try lined with a towel and let a fan blow on them overnight. Then they go onto a mesh tray into the oven. The drier you get malt the easier it is to knock off the roots and shoots. Some will even fall off after the oven drying and the rest will come off in the dryer.
The mesh screen I used was perfect for getting out the dried roots and shoots since it fell straight through the mesh.
Thanks for posting this!
DirtbagHB
Well-Known Member
where did you find a diagram to make that malting box..... i think im going to do away with all extracts (except tapioca every so often) and i found a close by source for cheap grain.
waltonfeed.com
and now that its starting to cool off i'm thinking im going to have troubles with the outside drying. even though id hammock it in our green house
waltonfeed.com
and now that its starting to cool off i'm thinking im going to have troubles with the outside drying. even though id hammock it in our green house
OP
OP
Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send you a PDF of the specs I have on a malting box.
I used twinvalley mills as my source for sorghum. Just make sure the grain is maltable and food grade.
celiacsurvivor
Well-Known Member
This is the main problem I have in NZ, we can't get sorghum at all, and any millet here is treated so it won't sprout.
So far I've malted buckwheat and amaranth. The buckwheat was all good, but the amaranth was so small that it was impossible to separate the roots and shoots and it was a big sticky mess when I was drying it. I don't know how easy it will be to mash but it will probably make a nice steeping grain.
The original idea was from a guy on the aussiehomebrewer forum who owns the O'Briens GF brewery there, but I basically made a box 1m square, the bottom part is 300mm high, the middle part is 100m high, and the lid is a bit more complex but as long as there is room for air circulation and an extraction fan you can do what you want. I'll post a pic of my lid when I get home from work.
No problem, I've taken so much from this forum its about time I gave a little back.
I'm in the process of malting more buckwheat to have a go with different lautering/sparging methods. I'll let you know how that goes.
