Making a Yeast Starter in a Flask (A Walkthrough with Pictures)

[Gavin C]

I pm'd yooper to see if we can get the threads merged.

I'm sorry, I totally missed that in the original article. I think it's definitely worth further discussion to figure out how our interpretations differ. I'd love to hash out a starter procedure that incorporates most of what you already do, and see if we can speed it up to 24 hours pre-brew or so (except for high gravity or high volume beers that need a step starter). I think we are onto something interesting!

Speed is not an issue for me. Monday starter for a weekend brew.

A big flask avoids the need for a stepped starter completely for me. I could probably even do a starter for 10 gallons of lager in the flask. I make 5.5 gallon batches and use a 6 gallon glass carboy as an FV so that is a somewhat moot point.

Headspace would be a big concern dumping in a big non-decanted starter.

Pitched 200ml (approx) of yeast last time.

 

[TheMadKing]

Speed is not an issue for me. Monday starter for a weekend brew.

A big flask avoids the need for a stepped starter completely for me. I could probably even do a starter for 10 gallons of lager in the flask. I make 5.5 gallon batches and use a 6 gallon glass carboy as an FV so that is a somewhat moot point.

Headspace would be a big concern dumping in a big non-decanted starter.

Pitched 200ml (approx) of yeast last time.

Yeah that makes sense.

The only issue I can see is that: according to that paper, you don't want to dilute your initial pitch into your starter by more than 200 times because it forces them to expend more energy and not be as viable. So if you are starting with less that 25 mL of yeast (for a 5L starter) you could be shocking them. He even recommends only doing about a 10x dilution as some breweries do (although he did question the actual benefit of this practice for home brewing)

I guess it really comes down to my own personal preference. I like to make things optimal and elegant and efficient, so I'm interested to see if I can hit the proper cell counts with less volume and less time. I'm not in a rush, just enjoy being efficient

I also am certainly not trying to change the way you do things. I'm sure you make much better beer than I do. I'm just asking questions for their own sake and I want to figure out a method that works for me as well that's a good combination of low-effort and optimal-starter.

 

[Gavin C]

I think you would enjoy the braukaiser's website. He does great work and it's another different set of data.

I applaud your questioning approach. I am certainly no expert, having only been brewing for a year and a bit.

I'm sure you brew great beer with your methods. I just don't share your interpretation of the data and how best to apply it to starters and fermenting.

The starter calculator I use gives a little warning if the planned starter volume is too much based on Jamil's Mr. Malty data.

The braukaiser's data is at odds with Mr. Malty's however with regard to this. But again, a different reader may have a very different interpretation to mine.

 

[Gavin C]

.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Pretty sure thread merges go by post number sorted by date and time.

 

[passedpawn]

Pretty sure thread merges go by post number sorted by date and time.

Merges get sorted by post date. It's automatic, no options.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Merges get sorted by post date. It's automatic, no options.

Yeah that's what I was under the impression of.

 

[passedpawn]

The thread merge didn't pan out as I would have wanted. Seems my article is buried at post #17 with your name as the OP. I wanted to keep my name as the OP and the article post #1. I thought that was what you were talking about. Guess I should have been clearer. Sorry about that. My mistake. Never mind. I'll wrap it up here and repost my post.

I could move a post or two around if you want, and thus change the OP (I think). PM me.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I jumped the gun and did what passedpawn suggested before reading past post 17. I think (hope) I achieved the intended result. If so, Gavin C just needs to edit the new OP with his original pictures in order to remove the attachment links. Once done, we can delete all of this off topic thread merge stuff. If I further muddled the situation, my apologies. We'll get this sorted.

 

[Gavin C]

Thanks @Yuri_Rage

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks mods for the merge! I know you guys are busy with the move.

And thanks Gavin for being patient with my pedantic questioning! I wrote an article about my methods for my little blog that I write for. I'm still refining it because I think it's jumbled and confusing and I've certainly incorporated a lot of what you wrote in your original article and given you acknowledgement in my post. When I get it to a happy place.

Edit: and here it is http://narrativeroots.com/2015/07/01/yeast-knowledge-feast/

Thanks for all your help @Gavin C!

 

[brew703]

Question regarding over-building.
Once the starter has cooled, do you swirl, then measure out the over-build volume and store in the fridge for future use and then pitch the correct amount?
Using the Brew United calculator, I chose the hybrid pitch rate and used an over-build amount of 125. The starter details show 1.5L of water to 151 grams of DME.
Overbuild harvest shows to pitch .864L and harvest .636.
When measuring out the starter, I would measure the creamy liquid and not just the yeast at the bottom, correct.
I apologize for the newbie questions but just wanting to get this right.

 

[flars]

Question regarding over-building.
Once the starter has cooled, do you swirl, then measure out the over-build volume and store in the fridge for future use and then pitch the correct amount?
Using the Brew United calculator, I chose the hybrid pitch rate and used an over-build amount of 125. The starter details show 1.5L of water to 151 grams of DME.
Overbuild harvest shows to pitch .864L and harvest .636.
When measuring out the starter, I would measure the creamy liquid and not just the yeast at the bottom, correct.
I apologize for the newbie questions but just wanting to get this right.

You are correct. It is the volume that is measured after swirling the starter wort and yeast together.

 

[brew703]

You are correct. It is the volume that is measured after swirling the starter wort and yeast together.

Thank you. That's what i thought.

 

[Gavin C]

Question regarding over-building.
Once the starter has cooled, do you swirl, then measure out the over-build volume and store in the fridge for future use and then pitch the correct amount?
Using the Brew United calculator, I chose the hybrid pitch rate and used an over-build amount of 125. The starter details show 1.5L of water to 151 grams of DME.
Overbuild harvest shows to pitch .864L and harvest .636.
When measuring out the starter, I would measure the creamy liquid and not just the yeast at the bottom, correct.
I apologize for the newbie questions but just wanting to get this right.

No worries at all.

The starter is taken off the stir-plate and the preplanned overbuild volume is immediately poured into the already prepared sanitized vessel(s).

These jars are capped loosely, labeled and refrigerated. Lids tightened after a day or so.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

 

[brew703]

No worries at all.

The starter is taken off the stir-plate and the preplanned overbuild volume is immediately poured into the already prepared sanitized vessel(s).

These jars are capped loosely, labeled and refrigerated. Lids tightened after a day or so.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

Yes. Immensely. Wasn't quite sure.
Thanks

 

[HomebrewPadawan]

Great write up, I found some helpful info. Whenever I get a new yeast strain, I also like to do the overbuild method. It seems like the easiest, most efficient, way to retain a clean pitch of the strain for a new starter.

 

[Gavin C]

Great write up, I found some helpful info. Whenever I get a new yeast strain, I also like to do the overbuild method. It seems like the easiest, most efficient, way to retain a clean pitch of the strain for a new starter.

Thanks.

The only change I have made in my methodology since writing this is that I have shortened my starter boil time to ~1-2 minutes. 10 minutes is pointless overkill.