Low flavor and aroma [Help needed]

[aqqe]

Hello! Longtime lurker and first time poster!

Over the last few months I've been having some problems with the beer I've been making and its driving me nuts! I've brewed maybe 10-15 all-grain BIABs to date and almost all of them with the exception of a beer kit and a porter came out very low in flavor and aroma. Its like drinking carbonated water with some malty flavors here and there.

I mostly brew IPAs and pale ales with recipes I find online or on the beer smith recipe cloud. My capacity is around 4.5 gallons atm, which means I usually have to scale the recipes down a bit to fit my system. I hit my OGs and FGs most of the time, being off by just a couple of points at most. My pH is good, my mash temps are good and my equipment is clean. I feel like I have all the things needed for brewing a well tasting beer, but it just aint happening!

As an example I brewed the recipe below about 2 months ago, with 1 month in primary and 3 1/2 weeks in bottle, and I believe there should be plenty enough hops for a nice and hoppy pale ale... which is not the case The beer is well carbonated and has a light malty taste, medium bitterness, with the faintest note of citrus and tropical fruits on the nose, but its really hard to make out tbh. No hop flavor what so ever. The hops came vacuum sealed and are 2016 vintage. I used a yeast starter and fermented around 18.5-20 degrees C, as I don't have a fridge to control the temp. I purged with CO2 during transfers and bottling to keep the oxygen out.

Sry for using metrics, but I don't do the whole imperial thing very well (from Sweden)

17 liter batchsize

7,66 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60,0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
4,00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60,0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
2,46 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60,0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
1,20 g Baking Soda (Mash 60,0 mins) Water Agent 5 -
1,50 kg Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (6,9 EBC) Grain 6 37,5 %
1,20 kg Munich Malt - 20L (25,0 EBC) Grain 7 30,0 %
0,80 kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (7,9 EBC) Grain 8 20,0 %
0,25 kg Oats, Flaked (Briess) (2,8 EBC) Grain 9 6,3 %
0,25 kg Wheat, Torrified (3,3 EBC) Grain 10 6,3 %
10,00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00 %] - First Wort 60,0 min Hop 11 21,5 IBUs
0,25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15,0 mins) Fining 12 -
10,00 g Citra [14,00 %] - Boil 15,0 min Hop 13 9,7 IBUs
10,00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,50 %] - Boil 15,0 min Hop 14 8,7 IBUs
0,50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15,0 mins) Other 15 -
15,00 g Citra [14,00 %] - Boil 5,0 min Hop 16 5,9 IBUs
15,00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,50 %] - Boil 5,0 min Hop 17 5,2 IBUs
10,00 g Citra [14,00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30,0 min Hop 18 7,5 IBUs
10,00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30,0 min Hop 19 6,7 IBUs
1,0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35,49 ml] Yeast 20 -
50,00 g Citra [14,00 %] - Dry Hop 10,0 Days Hop 21 0,0 IBUs
50,00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,50 %] - Dry Hop 10,0 Days Hop 22 0,0 IBUs
20,00 g Citra [14,00 %] - Dry Hop 1,0 Days Hop 23 0,0 IBUs
20,00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,50 %] - Dry Hop 1,0 Days Hop 24 0,0 IBUs

Measured Original Gravity: 1,052 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1,015 SG
ABVl: 4,9 %

Help me Homebrewtalk, you're my only hope!

 

[chickypad]

Looks like you've got plenty of hops. Were they very aromatic when you opened them? Usually the two biggest enemies of hop aroma/flavor are time and oxygen. Do I take that schedule to mean you have one dry hop addition that you put in 24 days before packaging, then another 10 days before? That seems kinda long to me. I tend to dry hop about 4-5 days before packaging or in the keg, and I also don't let an IPA sit in primary for 4 wks. You're a bit behind the eight ball bottle carbing, especially if it's taking 3.5 wks. Not to say you have to keg to get a good IPA, but I definitely think it helps especially on the homebrew scale where completely eliminating oxygen exposure is hard. Unless you're doing closed transfers with completely pre-purged vessels it's unavoidable. I am typically drinking IPAs in the 2-3 wk range, and definitely notice a drop off in aroma especially even by wk 4 or 5. By contrast you're not even drinking yours until almost wk 8.

Other things I notice are your water additions. Kinda confused by the baking soda, are you following pH? If anything I would think you'd need acid not bicarb. Do you know what sulfate, chloride, etc. levels you have there? Lastly it looks like a fairly malty grainbill, not sure if that is outshining the hops a bit. You might try cutting down on the munich or eliminating it.

 

[TungstenBeer]

Water chemistry was the first question I had as well. Do you know what the levels of the things chickypad asked about are?

 

[aqqe]

Looks like you've got plenty of hops. Were they very aromatic when you opened them?

Yes they smelled amazing. I have a very good supplier near me, and the freshness usually isn't a problem.

Do I take that schedule to mean you have one dry hop addition that you put in 24 days before packaging, then another 10 days before?

I left the beer in primary for 20 days before adding the first dry hop, which sat in the bucket for 10 days. With 1 day left until bottling I though "what the heck, lets just dump the last 20 grams of each hop into the bucket too"
I did use hop bags, which where weighted down and loosely tied to allow for maximum contact with the beer.

You're a bit behind the eight ball bottle carbing, especially if it's taking 3.5 wks. Not to say you have to keg to get a good IPA, but I definitely think it helps especially on the homebrew scale where completely eliminating oxygen exposure is hard. Unless you're doing closed transfers with completely pre-purged vessels it's unavoidable. I am typically drinking IPAs in the 2-3 wk range, and definitely notice a drop off in aroma especially even by wk 4 or 5. By contrast you're not even drinking yours until almost wk 8.

The beer was fully carbonated after 1.5 weeks, but I tried one and it had very low taste and flavor, so I've just been letting it sit for a bit longer in hopes of getting a better result with age. I have been looking into getting kegs, and this is high on my priority as I'm soon moving to a house large enough to fully accommodate my hobby.

Other things I notice are your water additions. Kinda confused by the baking soda, are you following pH? If anything I would think you'd need acid not bicarb. Do you know what sulfate, chloride, etc. levels you have there? Lastly it looks like a fairly malty grainbill, not sure if that is outshining the hops a bit. You might try cutting down on the munich or eliminating it.

This is my second ever beer I've used brewing salts in, so there may be some unneeded addition. I believe I used a slightly tweaked Randy Moshers Pale ale water profile (lowered SO4 and Ca a bit), adding it to beersmith water tool together with my local water information.

My local water is: Ca 16 Ma 2,1 Na 12 SO4 8,9 Cl 5,8 HCO3 70

I did use lactic acid to get the pH down to about 5.3. Good idea on the malt bill, I will try another brew without the munich to see if there is a noticeable difference.

Thanks,
aqqe