Help with NZ-like/tropical Pale Ale extract recipe

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alhoand

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First time trying to make my own recipe and could use some help, especially with the hop schedule. Would like to hit around 40-50 IBUs.

OG: 1.060 - FG: 1.015

Fermentables
12 lb (5.5 kg) extra light DME

Specialty grain
1 lb. (454 g) Munich malt (around 10°L)
8 oz (227 g) crystal malt (40°L)

Hops
0.5 oz (14 g) Nugget @ 60 mins (just chose nugget for bittering, because I have it in my freezer)
1.5 oz (42 g) Motueka @ 10 mins
2 oz (28 g) Amarillo @ flame out
3 oz (84 g) Motueka dry hop 3-4 days

Like I said, I could use some inputs on the hop schedule. The selection is somewhat arbitrarily based on another recipe I found, but would like to include some tropical, fruity flavors. Am open to all kinds of substitutions, changes to schedule, etc. However, I do already have amarillo, citra, simcoe and nugget, so would like to use one or more of these. My last beer was very citra-in-focus, so would like to try a more tropical flavor this time.

Also, should mention this is my first post in here, so if I posted in the wrong forum or I left out some important info, let me know!
 
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NB has a kit called Kiwi Express. It uses (pretty much) a West coast grist with 3 New Zealand hops. The additions are at 60, 10, and DH. The hops are Nelson Sauvin, Motueka, and Wakatu. It's a good beer.

 
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alhoand

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NB has a kit called Kiwi Express. It uses (pretty much) a West coast grist with 3 New Zealand hops. The additions are at 60, 10, and DH. The hops are Nelson Sauvin, Motueka, and Wakatu. It's a good beer.

That looks good actually! Unfortunately, Wakatu hops are not available here at the moment.. I guess I could swap them for Amarillo or something?
 
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Or waimea if sticking with an all NZ hop concept. Wakatu (I think) is lower AA and more floral whereas waimea is more tropical fruit and citrus
 

RCope

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Using what you've got on hand, my hop schedule for a fruit forward Pale Ale/IPA would be something like this:

Nugget at 60 for bittering to reach your target ibu's pending your calculator's number for the Simcoe
1 oz Simcoe @ 10 or 20 minutes
1 oz of Citra WP @ 165 for 20 minutes
1 oz of Amarillo WP @ 165 for 20 minutes
2 oz of Motueka WP @ 165 for 20 minutes
3 oz Motueka, .5 oz Citra, and .5 oz Amarillo at dry hop

For me, Simcoe is fruit forward with a bit of boiling. Motueka is great hotside. I'd add another NZ hop for dry hopping such as Wai-iti, Moutere, Waimea, or Nectaron (not available now!). But Motueka will work if that's the only NZ hop you have. Australian hops work great for that fruity-but-not-just-citrus vibe. The small amount of Citra and Amarillo would act as a multiplier for the larger Motueka dry hop. My 2 cents :cool: .
 

Miraculix

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First time trying to make my own recipe and could use some help, especially with the hop schedule. Would like to hit around 40-50 IBUs.

OG: 1.060 - FG: 1.015

Fermentables
12 lb (5.5 kg) extra light DME

Specialty grain
1 lb. (454 g) Munich malt (around 10°L)
8 oz (227 g) crystal malt (40°L)

Hops
0.5 oz (14 g) Nugget @ 60 mins (just chose nugget for bittering, because I have it in my freezer)
1.5 oz (42 g) Motueka @ 10 mins
2 oz (28 g) Amarillo @ flame out
3 oz (84 g) Motueka dry hop 3-4 days

Like I said, I could use some inputs on the hop schedule. The selection is somewhat arbitrarily based on another recipe I found, but would like to include some tropical, fruity flavors. Am open to all kinds of substitutions, changes to schedule, etc. However, I do already have amarillo, citra, simcoe and nugget, so would like to use one or more of these. My last beer was very citra-in-focus, so would like to try a more tropical flavor this time.

Also, should mention this is my first post in here, so if I posted in the wrong forum or I left out some important info, let me know!
You cannot steap Munich malt. That one needs to be mashed. Also, I'm not sure if I would want to add crystal malt to an extract based recipe, this will increase the sweetness and fg additionally to it being extract based. Extract tends to finish higher than all grain anyway.
 
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alhoand

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You cannot steap Munich malt. That one needs to be mashed. Also, I'm not sure if I would want to add crystal malt to an extract based recipe, this will increase the sweetness and fg additionally to it being extract based. Extract tends to finish higher than all grain anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion! It's actually more of partial mash, guess I should have written that instead. Also, I realized I put the amount of DME way wrong, it should've said 2.5 kg (5.5 lb.). Does your point still stand?
 
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alhoand

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You cannot steap Munich malt. That one needs to be mashed. Also, I'm not sure if I would want to add crystal malt to an extract based recipe, this will increase the sweetness and fg additionally to it being extract based. Extract tends to finish higher than all grain anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion! It's actually more of partial mash, guess I should have written that instead. Also, I realized I put the amount of DME way wrong, it should've said 2.5 kg (5.5 lb.). Does your point still stand?

But, yeah, I don't want it too sweet, some I'm curious what you think with the changes I just mentioned.
 

Miraculix

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But, yeah, I don't want it too sweet, some I'm curious what you think with the changes I just mentioned.
I just looked at your og of 1.06, don't be surprised if it goes down to 1.02 or 1.023 or something like that. It's extract, it always finishes higher. I would add invert syrup no. 2 instead of crystal. Great flavour and it ferments out almost 100%. About 10-15% of the total weight of the fermentables as invert sugar. Alternative is Lyle's golden syrup, if you can get it, don't know where you live.
 
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I don't want it too sweet

FWIW, when I use either Briess or Muntons DME, I get the expected attenuation from the strain of yeast that I use (US-05: around 80%, S-04: around 75%, ...). In the OG 60 - 65 range, I typically substitute some sugar for the DME.

With these brands of DME, I do not see the "it finishes higher than expected" problem.

As an aside: There are all-grain recipes that mash low (to create a highly fermentable wort) then use a low attenuating strain of yeast. For me, these recipes are likely to come out "too sweet" when converted algorithmically to DME+steep (please don't blame process or ingredients for a bad recipe). Finally, yeast strains that can not utilize maltotriose (like Windsor) may be a bad choice when brewing with DME.
 
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Miraculix

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FWIW, when I use either Briess or Muntons DME, I get the expected attenuation from the strain of yeast that I use (US-05: around 80%, S-04: around 75%, ...). In the OG 60 - 65 range, I typically substitute some sugar for the DME.

With these brands of DME, I do not see the "it finishes higher than expected" problem.

As an aside: There are all-grain recipes that mash low (to create a highly fermentable wort) then use a low attenuating strain of yeast. For me, these recipes are likely to come out "too sweet" when converted algorithmically to DME+steep (please don't blame process or ingredients for a bad recipe). Finally, yeast strains that can not utilize maltotriose (like Windsor) may be a bad choice when brewing with DME.
You are saying it yourself, you are substituting some dme for sugar, this is what brings the final gravity down into all grain territory. That's basically what I suggested to do.
 
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You are saying it yourself, you are substituting some dme for sugar, this is what brings the final gravity down into all grain territory. That's basically what I suggested to do.
There were some other things I said in my reply. For example: with the brands of DME and the strains of yeast that I use, I get FGs in the range that I want.
 

sicktght311

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Just did a NZ hazy pale/IPA a couple weeks ago that came out good. I used Wakatu, Waimea, and Motueka for the Dryhop, and it definitely has promise, but came in a little lighter on aroma than some of the other hops i've typically used for Hazy stuff (Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Etc). It might be a function of my issue with hop absorption/contact in my fermenter due to the chilling coil, but i have enough hops left to do another batch, so i might see how the second comes out. Great hops though!
 
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alhoand

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Just did a NZ hazy pale/IPA a couple weeks ago that came out good. I used Wakatu, Waimea, and Motueka for the Dryhop, and it definitely has promise, but came in a little lighter on aroma than some of the other hops i've typically used for Hazy stuff (Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Etc). It might be a function of my issue with hop absorption/contact in my fermenter due to the chilling coil, but i have enough hops left to do another batch, so i might see how the second comes out. Great hops though!
That sounds good! Let me know how the next batch turns out, and would be awesome if you could share you recipe!
 

sicktght311

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That sounds good! Let me know how the next batch turns out, and would be awesome if you could share you recipe!
Sorry for the delay

Recipe was pretty similar to as follows (realized i used Wai-iti not Wakatu)

5 Gallon finished batch, 6 gallons into the fermenter
10lbs Pilsner Malt
4lbs Flaked Oats
1lb Carapils

1.052 starting gravity, 1.012 final gravity (60% brewhouse efficiency based on the heavy use of flaked oats)

Mash 152 for 60 minutes

Boil 60 minutes. No boil hop
180 degree whirlpool for 25 minutes
2oz Motueka, 2oz Waimea, 2oz Wai-iti

Ferment with A38 Juice at 68 degrees
dryhop Day 2 with 1oz each of above (opened lid and just threw em in)
dryhop Day 5 with same dryhop charge as whirlpool (Used co2 purged hop dropper)
crash 36ish hours later, hold at 38-40 degrees for 2 days, Keg avoiding all oxygen
 
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alhoand

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Sorry for the delay

Recipe was pretty similar to as follows (realized i used Wai-iti not Wakatu)

5 Gallon finished batch, 6 gallons into the fermenter
10lbs Pilsner Malt
4lbs Flaked Oats
1lb Carapils

1.052 starting gravity, 1.012 final gravity (60% brewhouse efficiency based on the heavy use of flaked oats)

Mash 152 for 60 minutes

Boil 60 minutes. No boil hop
180 degree whirlpool for 25 minutes
2oz Motueka, 2oz Waimea, 2oz Wai-iti

Ferment with A38 Juice at 68 degrees
dryhop Day 2 with 1oz each of above (opened lid and just threw em in)
dryhop Day 5 with same dryhop charge as whirlpool (Used co2 purged hop dropper)
crash 36ish hours later, hold at 38-40 degrees for 2 days, Keg avoiding all oxygen

Fermenting with A38 sounds interesting. So no yeast, just bacteria? How do you get alcohol then?
 

sicktght311

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Fermenting with A38 sounds interesting. So no yeast, just bacteria? How do you get alcohol then?
A38 is Imperial's Juice Yeast. its the product code number. Its a very popular yeast for NEIPAs, as its similar to 1318 (Wyeast London III)
 
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alhoand

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A38 is Imperial's Juice Yeast. its the product code number. Its a very popular yeast for NEIPAs, as its similar to 1318 (Wyeast London III)
Ahh right haha, gotcha. I'm from Denmark and the most popular yoghurt product here is called A38 and is fermented with a Lactobacillus acidophillus strain. So I was confused lol
 
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