Braumeister efficiency issues

[Newbibrewbi]

Hi all, I've not found a thread dedicated to BM issues. If there is one I apologise.
Sorry for a long post.
Any advice greatly appreciated.

I'm at my wit's end with my BM 20 (2015) and I'm not sure what else I can do except sell it and switch to a different setup. Maybe someone here has some input on my process.

I have a BM20, 2015 model. I have the Low oxygen kit which lets me fix the top plate and I have 1,5mm filter discs from BAC brewing.
I crush my grains with a Mattmill master. I figured I should get a new mill since at first I thought my efficiency issues was due to a bad crush. I opted for a Mattmill since Speidel is selling a mill from Mattmill to go with their Braumeisters.

I've tried different malts and crush sizes. At first I tried to crush at 1,6mm as per Speidel's recommendations but found that the husks do not break properly and so I started experimenting. Nowadays I try to get a crush where the hulls are cracked but still "fluffy" since the BM is prone to wort fountains if the crush is too fine (For me this starts moderatly at 1,3 and is a guarantee with wort escaping the BM if I go lower. Might also depend on how heavy the malt bill is.)

I then figured my water was the problem so I got a RO filter. I also made a post here about my water.


Yesterday I tried to brew a belgian tripel. The recipe is posted below, copied from Beersmith.

33,25 litres​	RO Water​	1​	-​	-​
3,00 ml​	Lactic Acid (Mash)​	Water Agent​	2​	-​	-​
1,65 g​	Calcium Chloride (Mash)​	Water Agent​	3​	-​	-​
1,13 g​	Chalk (Mash)​	Water Agent​	4​	-​	-​
1,13 g​	Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash)​	Water Agent​	5​	-​	-​
4,70 kg​	Viking Pilsner Malt (4,0 EBC)​	Grain​	6​	77,7 %​	3,06 L​
0,20 kg​	Crystal Malt - 185L (Thomas Fawcett) (185,0 EBC)​	Grain​	7​	3,3 %​	0,13 L​
0,15 kg​	Acid Malt (4,5 EBC)​	Grain​	8​	2,5 %​	0,10 L​
0,73 g​	Calcium Chloride (Sparge)​	Water Agent​	9​	-​	-​
0,51 g​	Chalk (Sparge)​	Water Agent​	10​	-​	-​
0,50 g​	Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Sparge)​	Water Agent​	11​	-​	-​
1,00 kg​	Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil] (0,0 EBC)​	Sugar​	12​	16,5 %​	0,63 L​
31,00 g​	Spalter Select 2022 [4,75 %] - Boil 60,0 min​	Hop​	13​	14,9 IBUs​	-​
1,0 pkg​	La trappe tripel (bottle harvested yeast)​

According to beersmith my water profile after added salts were added was:

ca 51,8
Mg 0
Sodium 8
Sulfate 28,5
Chloride 38,6
Bicarbonate 45,6

Mash steps:
60 min @ 65c
30 min @ 72c
protafloc @ 20

I ended up with an OG of 1.058 which accordning to Beersmith gives me a BH efficiency of 57% and an estimated mash efficiency of 66,1%.
I boiled the wort for 90 minutes and ended up with 22l of mostly clear wort in the fermenter, some of the trub got in too, roughly 1l. Nice cold break.

Notes from brewday:
Mashed in at 65C with 23 litres of water.
Milled the malt at 1,45mm. Crush looked good. Tiny fountains at first and then a slow flow. Paused pump and restirred the grain basket.
PH 5 minutes into mashing: 5,53. Added 3ml 80% lactic acid.
PH 45 minutes into mashing: 5,31
After mashing I stirred the grains and hoisted the grain basket, let it drain. Put it down back in the wort and stirred, let it drain again.

Sparged slowly, 1l at a time with 10,25 litres of water. Let the grain pipe drain into a kettle. PH of that last wort was 5,8. OG was 1,020
Added contents of kettle to BM as the boil was starting.

Pre boil PH 5,25
Pre boil OG 1,050

The worst part is that the efficiency is a bit inconsistent. The best efficiency I've gotten was 70% with Weyerman malt and a small malt bill. Wort fountains were a real pain in the neck that time and it was before I moved and got new water. It would be bad enough if I was always around 50% efficiency but the efficiency is typically around 48-62% which means I can't reliably plan my recipies.

 

[schmurf]

I can't help you unfortunately but just wanted to tell that I never got on friendly terms with my BM10. Had poor efficiency, stuck mashes etc. I guess some of it was my own fault since some people enjoy their systems and seem to do great with theirs. I eventually sold mine and went on an easier route with digiboil and BIAB in a bag.

 

[Jeroen79]

I would presume you milled to course, i can get up to 85% with viking malt., i would try to mill it all at 1.3 next time, and see the difference.

 

[Newbibrewbi]

I would presume you milled to course, i can get up to 85% with viking malt., i would try to mill it all at 1.3 next time, and see the difference.

Last brew I did that with Viking pilsner I got so many wort fountains that I had to add almost a kg of rice hulls.
1,3 mm worked better with Bindewald malt, efficiency of 67%. I'd like to hit at least 75% because this is affecting my ability to brew stronger beers.

Are you using a BM?

 

[Jeroen79]

Are you using a BM?

No, i am not using a pump, i use an automatic stirrer.

 

[huckdavidson]

The Braumeister was designed to brew German ales and lagers <= 1.060 O.G. though higher O.G. beers can be had by adjusting final volumes.

You've done well to achieve 22l of wort @ 1.058 OG.

Lower efficiencies are generally the norm on all-in-one-units.

The pump is adjustable on some (not all!) units, the base of the pump will rotate or there may be a screw speed adjust or a knob to turn to select the speed. The pump manufacturers were switched several times. If yours is not adjustable it may be able to be replaced with a newer unit.

You might try experimenting with the BAC Brewing fine/course discs and increase filters.

The "Home Beer Brewery" on YouTube has many videos on the Braumeister units.

https://www.youtube.com/@homebeerbrewery/videos
Here's a 10L with an adjustable pump speed:

 

[d146895x]

Have you checked your mash temperature with a thermometer? If your BM was reading off, could give you poor efficiency. I have an BM20 with the early grey controller. Nearly always get over 75% mash efficiency. I wouldn’t worry too much about brewhouse efficiency (calculated) as that will depend on wastage through dead space/trub etc. I crush to credit card thickness with a very basic Chinese two roller mill. I use the bacbrewing fine filters top and bottom. Have you tried pausing the mash and giving a good stir halfway through. Do you do an iodine test to check for conversion. Just my thoughts....

 

[Newbibrewbi]

The Braumeister was designed to brew German ales and lagers <= 1.060 O.G. though higher O.G. beers can be had by adjusting final volumes.

You've done well to achieve 22l of wort @ 1.058 OG.

Recipie includes 1 kg of sugar so I was hoping for a significantly higher OG...

Have you checked your mash temperature with a thermometer? If your BM was reading off, could give you poor efficiency. I have an BM20 with the early grey controller. Nearly always get over 75% mash efficiency. I wouldn’t worry too much about brewhouse efficiency (calculated) as that will depend on wastage through dead space/trub etc. I crush to credit card thickness with a very basic Chinese two roller mill. I use the bacbrewing fine filters top and bottom. Have you tried pausing the mash and giving a good stir halfway through. Do you do an iodine test to check for conversion. Just my thoughts....

I have checked the temperature, minimal difference from the top reading with external thermometer and the BM reading.
If I go that fine I get fountains, period. It's a real pain in the ass...
I did pause and stir and I have (not this time) done an iodine test.

I'm really at my wit's end here.
Thanks for all the input!

 

[BrewZer]

I don't use a BM (although I've taken a few!) and all the reading I just did indicates the smaller the crush, the higher the likelihood of a wort fountain. Others have lessened their incidence by reducing the pump flow rate to avoid compacting the grist against the top of the grain pipe and/or jamming the pump.

I switched from extract to BIAB about 2 years ago (so I skipped the joys of recirculating), and in that time I've found my conversion is more successful with accurate mash temperature control and finely crushing the grain to coarse flour consistency, with the mill I use set to minimum (or about .025 inches).

Since you can't do that and count on your BM to run smoothly, I'd say you have two choices: find a variable speed pump so you can crush your grain to a finer consistency, or swap out your BM for a rig that doesn't rely on the grain pipe.

Seems like the grain pipe is merely a stainless steel grain bag that flows from bottom to top. Have you considered putting a BIAB bag in your BM in lieu of the grain pipe and letting the pump push your mashing wort through the bag? Then you could safely grind to finer grist and not worry about the wort fountain issue. The BIAB forum is replete with instances where brewers recirculate through a BIAB rig; in fact, some use recirc water to improve sugar extraction towards the end of the mash period.

Something to think about.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

The manual says 6 kg of grain, max, so you are well under the limit. Beersmith thinks that with grain and no dextrose, you should be around 1.060, which is no problem for a Braumeister. I assume you're adding the dextrose after mashing, since it would just make the mash thicker without doing you any good. I don't know anything about extract brewing, I admit.

If you're new at this, are you sure you want all those chemicals and all that gadgetry? I don't know how many times you've used this thing, but your handle and post count make it sound like you aren't brewing a lot. I've made a lot of very good beer, I always used plain old tap water, and I haven't added any new parts to my Braumeister. My HBS mills my grain. I have no idea how coarse it is. OG's haven't been a problem except when I've done something silly.

Have you tried using the Braumeister the way it came from the factory, with whatever water comes out of your tap? Seems like it would give you a baseline to start from.

I've made a very wheat-heavy ale, and I make oatmeal stout, and things seem to work out. I quit putting rice hulls in the stout mash.

I got myself a bag so I can do big beers without playing around with the Braumeister. Haven't used it yet.

 

[Newbibrewbi]

The manual says 6 kg of grain, max, so you are well under the limit. Beersmith thinks that with grain and no dextrose, you should be around 1.060, which is no problem for a Braumeister. I assume you're adding the dextrose after mashing, since it would just make the mash thicker without doing you any good. I don't know anything about extract brewing, I admit.

If you're new at this, are you sure you want all those chemicals and all that gadgetry? I don't know how many times you've used this thing, but your handle and post count make it sound like you aren't brewing a lot. I've made a lot of very good beer, I always used plain old tap water, and I haven't added any new parts to my Braumeister. My HBS mills my grain. I have no idea how coarse it is. OG's haven't been a problem except when I've done something silly.

Have you tried using the Braumeister the way it came from the factory, with whatever water comes out of your tap? Seems like it would give you a baseline to start from.

I've made a very wheat-heavy ale, and I make oatmeal stout, and things seem to work out. I quit putting rice hulls in the stout mash.

I got myself a bag so I can do big beers without playing around with the Braumeister. Haven't used it yet.

Thanks for replying!

Yes, the dextrose was added during the boil.
I'm not super active in the forum in terms of posting but I try to read as much as I can. I'll admit I don't have as many brews under my belt as many here but I'm trying to get there!

One thing I've gathered from literature is that water is important. I was also using tap water but since I moved my efficiency has taken a dive and I thought it was due to the water, hence the RO attempt. Seems like it's something else.

I have tried using the BM in the original setting (before moving) and the efficiency was alright, however it was also alright the way I'm using it now so the break seems to have happened when I moved, that's why I suspected the water.
My next guess is that there might be something wrong with the pump. I'd rather not change it for a new one but if the alternative is to get a new system maybe it's the lesser of two evils.

I don't use a BM (although I've taken a few!) and all the reading I just did indicates the smaller the crush, the higher the likelihood of a wort fountain. Others have lessened their incidence by reducing the pump flow rate to avoid compacting the grist against the top of the grain pipe and/or jamming the pump.

I switched from extract to BIAB about 2 years ago (so I skipped the joys of recirculating), and in that time I've found my conversion is more successful with accurate mash temperature control and finely crushing the grain to coarse flour consistency, with the mill I use set to minimum (or about .025 inches).

Since you can't do that and count on your BM to run smoothly, I'd say you have two choices: find a variable speed pump so you can crush your grain to a finer consistency, or swap out your BM for a rig that doesn't rely on the grain pipe.

Seems like the grain pipe is merely a stainless steel grain bag that flows from bottom to top. Have you considered putting a BIAB bag in your BM in lieu of the grain pipe and letting the pump push your mashing wort through the bag? Then you could safely grind to finer grist and not worry about the wort fountain issue. The BIAB forum is replete with instances where brewers recirculate through a BIAB rig; in fact, some use recirc water to improve sugar extraction towards the end of the mash period.

Something to think about.

I have thought about trying a brew with a bag as that would allow me to eliminate the malt tube as a problem spot if the issues persist. However I'm not entirely sure how I would go about it with the middle rod being a bit in the way of any bag I put in the BM.

I did try a BIAB brew a few weeks ago, very fine crush and no water treatment except acid for PH. Efficiency was pretty lousy at 59% mash.
I did a 1 step mash on the stove for that one.
I took the result as a sign that the water is indeed part of the problem but now that RO didn't help I'm wondering what's up...

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I wonder if there is crud in the pipes going to and from the pump. Or something could be stuck in the impeller.

I think the pump should be fine as long as the impeller is undamaged, clean, and turning normally. I assume you clean it internally. I take mine off and clean it after brewing. Stuff will grow in it otherwise. I heard that from...a friend.

My pump doesn't feature any info regarding flow rate, so if you were going to measure yours, you would have to have someone run theirs into a container with graduations on it. It does list a pressure spec. That would be complicated to check.

I'm sure you're sealing the mash pipe against the bottom of the machine properly and that your gasket is good.

I don't know anything about how much water can screw up a brew, or how to fix it, but you could always do a repeat batch with purified water.

I have never had efficiency problems, kettle or Braumeister, even when I had no idea what I was doing. I bought grain cracked by different vendors. I cracked my own grain. Always used water from the sink. Hard to figure out what's going on with your mashes. There is no question the machine will do 1.060 with a batch your size, so we know the Braumeister's design is not worth questioning.

I assume you're sure the instrument you use for checking gravity is good.

As you say, it sounds like there is some common flaw in your Braumeister and BIAB brews. What could cause that? I can't think of anything other than a bad thermometer, a bad refractometer, or crazy water.

No possibility the grain is bad?

How about mashing out at 77 degrees C to get a better sparge from the Braumeister?

 

[GoeHaarden]

I was also using tap water but since I moved my efficiency has taken a dive and I thought it was due to the water, hence the RO attempt. Seems like it's something else.

It still might be your problem. Looking at your posted recipe and without punching it into any calculators I have some water suggestions. First ditch the chalk - it doesn't dissolve easily and I'm not sure I see the purpose of it here. If you need to raise pH then lime (CaOH) is a better choice.

Try using distilled water and then plug your recipe into the BrunWater spread sheet. Be sure to input grain and volumes appropriately. Use the SRM profile that matches your beer color and aim for those additions.

I don't know anything about how much water can screw up a brew, or how to fix it, but you could always do a repeat batch with purified water.

It can have a huge impact. Purifying water doesn't do much to the mineral composition and you still don't have any data to make corrections.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I was thinking of bottled water, which would be from a completely different source. Even if the bottler added minerals back in, you wouldn't expect it to be hard. But it makes sense that distilled would give you a baseline, if you wanted to know exactly what was in the water. I was simply thinking he could make a beer with a type of water that was pretty much guaranteed not to interfere with efficiency, and if it worked, he would know his tap water was no good.

I just realized "RO" means "reverse osmosis." I assumed it was some brand of filter familiar to brewers!

You would still have the problem of not knowing what was in the tap water. A bunch of zeroes in the distilled profile would not be useful without information from the tap water, unless the plan was to use distilled all the time. Now that I think about it, OP didn't say he knew what was in his tap water before adding things. Maybe it's in his other post.

I don't think he should sell the Braumeister if he's getting bad results with a bag, too.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I was thinking of bottled water, which would be from a completely different source. Even if the bottler added minerals back in, you wouldn't expect it to be hard. But it makes sense that distilled would give you a baseline, if you wanted to know exactly what was in the water. I was simply thinking he could make a beer with a type of water that was pretty much guaranteed not to interfere with efficiency, and if it worked, he would know his tap water was no good.

I just realized "RO" means "reverse osmosis." I assumed it was some brand of filter familiar to brewers!

You would still have the problem of not knowing what was in the tap water. A bunch of zeroes in the distilled profile would not be useful without information from the tap water, unless the plan was to use distilled all the time. Now that I think about it, OP didn't say he knew what was in his tap water before adding things. Maybe it's in his other post.

I don't think he should sell the Braumeister if he's getting bad results with a bag, too.

Yeah, you kind of lost me there.

Use distilled as your base water so assume the mineral content is close to zero - then you have a clean slate to add your brewing salts to achieve any profile you want. It's quite simple.

The problem with bottled/purified/filtered water from the store is that even the same brand will use different bottling sites and the mineral content will be different even within the same brand - so finding data sheets for that brand might not even represent what you bought. Then you have multiple brands. Municipal water will change as well. Easy solution - get yourself a quality RO system at home or use distilled...

I do agree with you though - Don't need to sell the BM

 

[Newbibrewbi]

Thanks guys for replying,

I have a water profile for the old water and one for the new, I think I posted my current water in the other thread.
I went with Brewfather's estimate for minerals in RO water, it was close to 0. It shouldn't be high enough to matter if I treat all of it as 0, that's why I did water adjustments. The calculations are from Beersmith. I didn't know chalk doesn't dissolve.

Try using distilled water and then plug your recipe into the BrunWater spread sheet. Be sure to input grain and volumes appropriately. Use the SRM profile that matches your beer color and aim for those additions.

I did try that and I found it easier to just use beersmith. Maybe I'll give BrunWater another go. However the Beersmith formula proved closer to the actual PH than BrunWater when I measured last time I made a brew! I expected the opposite.

As for selling the BM I'm not so sure, if I don't get reliable results with a higher efficiency I don't really see a point in keeping it, then it's just an expensive water heater.

And as for grains, the're a few months old by now but the results were the same when I made a brew with fresh grains... I do notice Weyermann gives me a few points more than Viking malt though which is odd since I've seen discussions about it and I seem to be alone in that observation.
Maybe it's due to a difference in kernel size which would indicate that the crush is the problem after all.

 

[huckdavidson]

Post pictures of your grain crush if you can (to determine if your crush is ok).

The 1.5mm discs may be too coarse for your crush, have you tried the .9mm?

Theoretically the finer disc restricts the pump a bit more.

Normal water chemistry should not have an exaggerated influence on mash efficiency.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

To reiterate, if efficiency is bad with both BIAB and the Braumeister, it looks like there is no evidence the Braumeister is the problem. And it's a nice, easy way to brew.

 

[Newbibrewbi]

To reiterate, if efficiency is bad with both BIAB and the Braumeister, it looks like there is no evidence the Braumeister is the problem. And it's a nice, easy way to brew.

That's what I thought and why I went with RO water, but if it's not the water and not the grains, what the heck could it be...

 

[huckdavidson]

That's what I thought and why I went with RO water, but if it's not the water and not the grains, what the heck could it be...

Your crush isn't fine enough.

For BIAB make flour out of it, crush till your scared.

For the Braumeister get the .9 mm fine plates and stick with the 1.3 crush as a start.

Post pictures of your current crush if you can.

Be sure to stir for at least 5 minutes when doughing in with either method to ensure all grains are wetted.

 

[Newbibrewbi]

Your crush isn't fine enough.

For BIAB make flour out of it, crush till your scared.

For the Braumeister get the .9 mm fine plates and stick with the 1.3 crush as a start.

Post pictures of your current crush if you can.

Be sure to stir for at least 5 minutes when doughing in with either method to ensure all grains are wetted.

For the BIAB batch I double crushed at the finest setting of the mill which is 0,9mm and gave it a really good stir.

I'll make sure to take some crush photos next time there's time for a brew!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Wow. The Braumeister is up to $2800 now. I would never pay that.

I see them selling for $100-$200 on Ebay! I paid something like $900 and thought I got a good deal.

 

[huckdavidson]

For the BIAB batch I double crushed at the finest setting of the mill which is 0,9mm and gave it a really good stir.

I'll make sure to take some crush photos next time there's time for a brew!

.9 mm = 0.035 in

That's not very fine. In fact that's course to most standards.

You'll need access to a mill that can crush down to at least .5 mm or .020 in and preferably even lower - .25 mm or .010 in.

What does "a really good stir" translate to in minutes? It's important to continuously stir using a whisk for at least 5 minutes.

Be sure to stir using a large whisk. If using a mash paddle or spoon it can be hard to find and break up lumps.

 

[Newbibrewbi]

.9 mm = 0.035 in

That's not very fine. In fact that's course to most standards.

You'll need access to a mill that can crush down to at least .5 mm or .020 in and preferably even lower - .25 mm or .010 in.

What does "a really good stir" translate to in minutes? It's important to continuously stir using a whisk for at least 5 minutes.

Be sure to stir using a large whisk. If using a mash paddle or spoon it can be hard to find and break up lumps.

0,9 is the smallest setting on my mill ( MattMill Master ) and I got quite a lot of flour even after the first run-through.
I'll get some pictures of different crushes asap.
I believe 0,9 is the "credit card" width of the gap that people talk about. I've also understood that the size of the rollers is quite important when it comes to crush size and that it's not only about the roller gap. The mattmill rollers are definitely wider than the rollers of the bulldog mill that I used before.

I didn't time the stirring but I made sure to have a mash with no lumps in it. I also always check the grist after mashing to make sure that there have been no dry patches or grains that didn't turn mushy in the mash.
This goes for both BIAB and BM brews.

 

[pocketmon]

My .02

1. The finer the crush, the easier the enzyme accesses the starch. Try finest crush if you have trouble of efficiency.
2. Mashout seems to add one or two points for me. Not much, but why not? Unless saving a few minutes matters more to you.
3. It is easier to form dough balls when mash-in or doughing-in temperature is higher than gelatinization temperature. Try mash-in at 55~58, and rise to your desired temperature.
4. To alleviate compact of grain, I place a pipe in-between the top and bottom filters. It is just like what in the following page without holes.
https://www.lindhcraftbeer.com/2019/02/festbier/5. Try other brands of base malt if you have issues constantly.

 

[huckdavidson]

0,9 is the smallest setting on my mill ( MattMill Master ) and I got quite a lot of flour even after the first run-through.
I'll get some pictures of different crushes asap.
I believe 0,9 is the "credit card" width of the gap that people talk about.

For reference, I crush at .025 - .028 in. which is .6mm. The mill may be artificially constraining your ability to crush fine enough.

I've also understood that the size of the rollers is quite important when it comes to crush size and that it's not only about the roller gap. The mattmill rollers are definitely wider than the rollers of the bulldog mill that I used before.

It's not the width of the rollers that matters, it's the diameter. The larger the diameter of the rollers the easier they pull grain into the mill and the gentler the rollers are when they crush the kernels. In fact, large enough rollers don't need knurling.

I didn't time the stirring but I made sure to have a mash with no lumps in it. I also always check the grist after mashing to make sure that there have been no dry patches or grains that didn't turn mushy in the mash.
This goes for both BIAB and BM brews.

It's good that you don't have lumps but that's only the first part of the equation.

You also want to ensure that all of the grain is thouroughly wetted before starting the mash timer. Stirring for 5 minutes at a constant rate with a whisk ensures this occurs.

 

[BrewZer]

0,9 is the smallest setting on my mill ( MattMill Master ) and I got quite a lot of flour even after the first run-through.
I'll get some pictures of different crushes asap.
I believe 0,9 is the "credit card" width of the gap that people talk about. I've also understood that the size of the rollers is quite important

0,9 mm is 0.036 in ... credit cards are .029 in thick, and my mill (Northern Brewer 2-roller Hullwrecker) goes to .025.

 

[Newbibrewbi]

I finally had time for a brew day!

I thought about what was said in this thread and milled at 1,15mm which is way finer than usual. I did have fountains (I stirred and it thankfully passed, see picture on how the mash looked, there is a hole in the middle of the grains that formed at the start of mashing) and then a very slow flow through the malt pipe. I paused and stirred a few times and saw that the mash had formed a compact “cake” at the top of the malt basket.

I used the original filters instead of the Bac brewing filters. Efficiency 65% so my efficiency is better with a finer crush and those plates, up by about 3%.

Adding some pictures of crush sizes and If anyone is curious as to what a wort fountain looks like, I got a picture of a small one!

Not sure what went wrong but you have to click the pictures of the crush to see the note with the mill gap that I added to each.

 

[Christ71]

I actually just replaced my Speidel Braumeister 20l for a Grainfather G40. But having used a BM for 8 years, I can say it's definitely possible to brew consistently. I used to mill at 1.5-1.6mm, as a finer mill can cause a stuck mash. Stir well at dough in and repeat about 4-5 times every 6 minutes. I used the Bac Brewing 1.5 disks including the expansion disk. Under the expansion disk, I placed the BM disk, this prevents fountains. Then comes the hard part , long mashes. I always mash at least 2 hours. I recently measured my SG every 15 minutes and it was still rising after 2,5 hours.
Hope this helps.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks. What is a wort fountain?

 

[SaisonMan]

I actually just replaced my Speidel Braumeister 20l for a Grainfather G40. But having used a BM for 8 years, I can say it's definitely possible to brew consistently. I used to mill at 1.5-1.6mm, as a finer mill can cause a stuck mash. Stir well at dough in and repeat about 4-5 times every 6 minutes. I used the Bac Brewing 1.5 disks including the expansion disk. Under the expansion disk, I placed the BM disk, this prevents fountains. Then comes the hard part , long mashes. I always mash at least 2 hours. I recently measured my SG every 15 minutes and it was still rising after 2,5 hours.
Hope this helps.

I have a different kind of all-in-one, and I too had efficiency problems. What fixed the problem for me was similar to what Christ71 says here. I take out about eight cups of wort from the spigot every 15 minutes or so, pour it back in the mash and stir well. I went from poor efficiency and frustration to coming close to my numbers every time. It can be a pain, but it's worth it in the end. I learned this from someone on the site (I wish I could remember!), and I hope it helps the OG.

 

[Czech]

I actually just replaced my Speidel Braumeister 20l for a Grainfather G40. But having used a BM for 8 years, I can say it's definitely possible to brew consistently. I used to mill at 1.5-1.6mm, as a finer mill can cause a stuck mash. Stir well at dough in and repeat about 4-5 times every 6 minutes. I used the Bac Brewing 1.5 disks including the expansion disk. Under the expansion disk, I placed the BM disk, this prevents fountains. Then comes the hard part , long mashes. I always mash at least 2 hours. I recently measured my SG every 15 minutes and it was still rising after 2,5 hours.
Hope this helps

Christ71,
I’ve been researching and planning on purchasing an all in one. I’m hung up on the braumeister or g40. Can you help me understand why you switched from the braumeister and if you’re happier with the g40? Any advice would be greatly appreacited. Thank you.

 

[Czech]

Here’s where I’m at:
The braumeister seems like it it built like a tank and will last for a lifetime of brewing. The computer seems well designed (especially the newest model). The downsides to me were that it’s more difficult to brew higher gravity beers without double mashing or adding DME/LME, the efficiency seems to be the lowest of all the systems, and also the initial cost.

The g40 seems pretty versatile being able to brew higher gravity beers than the braumeister. The efficiency seems better as well. From what I’ve read the wort seems clearer when transferring. The downsides seem to be it is not as heavy duty as the braumeister, I watched a video where the person brewing opened the drain spigot and the outer metal of the kettle flexed quite a bit. Maybe it’s not that flimsy, I’ve never put my hands on one. I’ve also heard complaints of the pump plugging up.

 

[McMullan]

Here’s where I’m at:
The braumeister seems like it it built like a tank and will last for a lifetime of brewing. The computer seems well designed (especially the newest model). The downsides to me were that it’s more difficult to brew higher gravity beers without double mashing or adding DME/LME, the efficiency seems to be the lowest of all the systems, and also the initial cost.

The g40 seems pretty versatile being able to brew higher gravity beers than the braumeister. The efficiency seems better as well. From what I’ve read the wort seems clearer when transferring. The downsides seem to be it is not as heavy duty as the braumeister, I watched a video where the person brewing opened the drain spigot and the outer metal of the kettle flexed quite a bit. Maybe it’s not that flimsy, I’ve never put my hands on one. I’ve also heard complaints of the pump plugging up.

Efficiency issues are primarily brewer related. I get a mash efficiency of about 78% with my 20L BM and 82% with my 50L BM. I suspect some people fail to mash in thoroughly to get a real porridge mashing away. It’s key for a reasonable efficiency on any system. Brewhouse efficiency can be improved by using a dip tube to empty the kettle. I like drinking beer so most of my brews are <5% ABV. BM works like a charm. The BM is going to produce worts with a gravity around 1.060 without any noticeable extra effort. Adding some brewing sugar to bump gravity is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged for better results. I make an imperial wort once or twice a year and spend an extra 1.5 hours double mashing on brew day. About 30 minutes hands-on time, weighing, milling and mashing in the second grist. Not a big deal.

 

[Czech]

Ok great! Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[Christ71]

Christ71,
I’ve been researching and planning on purchasing an all in one. I’m hung up on the braumeister or g40. Can you help me understand why you switched from the braumeister and if you’re happier with the g40? Any advice would be greatly appreacited. Thank you.

I brewed on my Speidel Bräumeister 20l for almost 8 years, I know the build quality and its limitations quite well. Have brewed low and high gravity beers, and double mashed quite often. With a bit of patience you can get perfectly clear wort out of it, I used the wort pump.

The Grainfather G40 is almost as sturdy as the Speidel, but much easier to use. Easy to stir during mash in or during the mash. Good WiFi for recipe transfer, easy control, even the power during the boil can be adjusted, boils easily even outside in freezing temperatures (not something you could achieve with my old Speidel 2016 model). Good mash efficiencies, better than I ever achieved on my Speidel, and everybody I know who have switched say the same. Dump in as much hops as you like, whirlpool and let it settle and you'll have clear wort pumping out. I have brewed in excess of 30 litres high gravity (>10%) beers without any issues whatsoever.

The Speidel has stronger pumps in my opinion, and they are easier to reach for cleaning. I have never used a Speidel on WiFi so I can't comment on their online system, but the Grainfather app works perfectly for me. No problems with the pump on the G40, it's advised not to pump during the boil due to cavitation, that's all. And that isn't even possible on a Speidel, the temp has to be below 80°C for the pump to work again. I prefer the Grainfather pump in that regard as it will work directly after finishing the boil

I'm definitely happy to have made the switch and would recommend the G40 to anybody.

 

[McMullan]

I’ve never struggled with wort clarity when brewing with the BM either. Again, it’s brewer related. Kettle finings and sufficient time for gravity to work leads to clear wort regardless. Not that it matters much, unless you plan to harvest yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/braumeister-2021.703199/#post-9331193

Not being able to control power when using a steam condenser was the only genuine criticism for me. There’s a very simple workaround, though. Plug it into a suitably rated power controller.

 

[Christ71]

I’ve never struggled with wort clarity when brewing with the BM either. Again, it’s brewer related. Kettle finings and sufficient time for gravity to work leads to clear wort regardless. Not that it matters much, unless you plan to harvest yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/braumeister-2021.703199/#post-9331193

Not being able to control power when using a steam condenser was the only genuine criticism for me. There’s a very simple workaround, though. Plug it into a suitably rated power controller.

I see you throw your hops in a spider, no need to do that in a G40. In fact, I use pellets instead of whole cones. That also makes a difference in clarity.

 

[McMullan]

I see you throw your hops in a spider, no need to do that in a G40. In fact, I use pellets instead of whole cones. That also makes a difference in clarity.

No need to with a BM either. It just helps with clean up, depends on what I’m brewing and what I might be recirculating the wort through, e.g., a HopRocket for an IPA. I manage to get clear wort regardless, using whole hops or pellets. I don’t recognise any issues with wort clarity when bewing with a BM.

 

[Czech]

Very useful information. Thank you both. I really appreciate it. I’ll be making a decision here pretty soon and this definitely helps.