Low alcohol %

[AdamLucko]

Hey guy. just did my biab (Honey Badger). but I ended up with low ABV. I started with (OG)1.057-(FG) 1.042= .015 x 131.25= 1.96 about. I was shooting for around 5%. What could be my problems. I have gotten it around the same prior.
what could be the culprit?

The recipe is here:
mash at 151 degrees of
5lbs munich dark
5lbs honey malt
1 lb caraAmber
1 lb flaked rice

sparged to 6.5gal
boiled to 5.5gal

hops added were cascade, saaz, phoenix

yeast addition was safale us-05 dry yeast 11.5g

og. 1.057

what could be my problem? temperature or yeast? and what could be the solutions!

thanks all!

 

[lowtones84]

That's an incredibly high FG. My first thoughts:

I know that Munich can be used as a base malt, but not sure about dark Munich. Even then, I do not believe it has enough diastatic power to convert the other malts that you have in the recipe.

Other than that, it's either too cold or the yeast was just faulty.

Hopefully we can figure it out!

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

Can we get more info? Such as:

- Mash ratio (quarts water /lbs of grain)
-Yeast pitching temp?
- Fermentation temp?
- Length of primary

Any details you can share might uncover potential issues

 

[Hanso]

Holy honey malt. Normal dose of that stuff is at most 15% of grist. Also, are you sure the Munich was no caramunich? Otherwise there's absolutely no reason yeast would stall out that early on such a moderate OG.

 

[Hanso]

Mash time?

 

[Maxkling]

Who made that recipe?

 

[RM-MN]

Munich malt can be used to a greater percentage because there's enough diastatic power to compensate for less base malt. Dark Munich, however, is so limited in diastatic power as to relegate it to the category of a specialty malt.

Taken from an article in Brew Your Own, this explains that dark Munich won't have enough diastatic power to even convert itself. Add a pound or so of 6-row brewers malt and you should get the conversion you need.

 

[Hanso]

Not at this point he won't. Starting over, sure. At this point he needs enzymes.

 

[AdamLucko]

Thanks all for the quick replies!

First of all? enzymes? im not sure how to use them, when to use. so obviously I have never used them.. I would love to learn!

2nd- I have this work prior but still unfamiliar with diastatic power?
a quick explanation would be great!

3rd mash was grains/rice BIAB (crushed twice through my mill) at 4 Gallons at 75% mash efficiency, primary length 15 days, fermentation temp was around 72-75degrees. yeast pitch was... imnot sure. usually just under room temp? The reaction started within 14hrs. So I assume the temperature was kinda high?

Its my recipe (basically one day I went to the brewery store and just grabbed some sale items!) after the 1st brew it tasted sooooooo good!.

thanks for any help again brewers!

 

[Yooper]

Sorry to say, but the recipe is fatally flawed.

In order to make a recipe that will convert starches in the grain to fermentable sugars, enzymatic activity is needed. Those enzymes come from base malt

Base malt is the grain that makes up the bulk of the beer. It has something called "diastastic power" that means the enzymes can convert that starch to sugar, along with the other grains in the recipe.

The problem here is that you have 5 pounds of base malt (the dark Munich) that may convert itself, but 7 pounds of specialty grains that won't convert.

The recipe itself is the huge problem, and the beer is a dumper, sorry to say.

In order to make a recipe that will work, it's really important to have a lighter base grain and make that 80% or so of the recipe, and then use specialty grains (like honey malt) in something like .5 pounds total per recipe, not 10 times that amount. It's just not going to work, I'm afraid.

 

[AdamLucko]

Thanks Yooper.

SO could I just add enzymes to help? and when. during fermentation or after, and which type alpha or beta? and whats that difference between the 2?

thanks!

 

[Hanso]

You can add enzymes artificially after/during fermentation, the problem is that the enzymes will continue to work on any starches and the yeast will immediately gobble up the resulting sugars. Ultimately this means a very very dry beer, unless you monitor the gravity carefully and take extra measures to stop the enzymes (slow them, actually). It will be hard to bottle condition without explosions but if you have a keg it is potentially salvageable. Check "beano for homebrew" for more info.

 

[Hanso]

Alpha and beta both break down long chain starches into sugars. They work in different ways. I believe alpha chops long starch chains in the middle and beta "bites off" just a couple of glucose from the end of the chain at a time.

 

[AdamLucko]

Can I add enzymes to the initial mash? prior to boil? or would this kill the enzymes?

Really. The beer tastes really really good (to me) but I wouldn't mind a little bit more of a kick.. It is a sweeter beer so I don't think making it dry would be much of a problem. Also if I were to throw enzymes in the secondary fermenter. how long would I wait before kegging? (on average)

thanks again!

 

[theseeker4]

Thanks all for the quick replies!

First of all? enzymes? im not sure how to use them, when to use. so obviously I have never used them.. I would love to learn!

2nd- I have this work prior but still unfamiliar with diastatic power?
a quick explanation would be great!

3rd mash was grains/rice BIAB (crushed twice through my mill) at 4 Gallons at 75% mash efficiency, primary length 15 days, fermentation temp was around 72-75degrees. yeast pitch was... imnot sure. usually just under room temp? The reaction started within 14hrs. So I assume the temperature was kinda high?

Its my recipe (basically one day I went to the brewery store and just grabbed some sale items!) after the 1st brew it tasted sooooooo good!.

thanks for any help again brewers!

I suggest picking up John Palmer's book How To Brew. I read it in a day and it is incredibly helpful to understand the different terms and the science behind brewing, without being written at too high of a level.

 

[AdamLucko]

I'm very competent. Subtle sarcasm is not appreciated. Especially on intellect. (edited for crudeness). These are forums for help in such instances. There would be no HomeBrewTalk if we were all professionals.

 

[theseeker4]

I'm very competent. Subtle sarcasm is not appreciated. Especially on intellect. (edited for crudeness). These are forums for help in such instances. There would be no HomeBrewTalk if we were all professionals.

There was no insult nor sarcasm intended at all, especially about intellect. You commented about a couple terms you didn't recognize that I did entirely due to the book I recommended. I am certainly as far from a professional as one can get myself. Again, any insinuation about a lack of competence or intellect was entirely unintended on my part, and the furthest thing from my mind. I was simply trying to be helpful by recommending a book I found very useful.

 

[Plissken]

Sorry to say, but the recipe is fatally flawed.

In order to make a recipe that will convert starches in the grain to fermentable sugars, enzymatic activity is needed. Those enzymes come from base malt

Base malt is the grain that makes up the bulk of the beer. It has something called "diastastic power" that means the enzymes can convert that starch to sugar, along with the other grains in the recipe.

The problem here is that you have 5 pounds of base malt (the dark Munich) that may convert itself, but 7 pounds of specialty grains that won't convert.

The recipe itself is the huge problem, and the beer is a dumper, sorry to say.

In order to make a recipe that will work, it's really important to have a lighter base grain and make that 80% or so of the recipe, and then use specialty grains (like honey malt) in something like .5 pounds total per recipe, not 10 times that amount. It's just not going to work, I'm afraid.

Nothing's a dumper unless you're a quitter! I imagine it would be pretty delicious as a blended beer.

 

[AdamLucko]

thanks. all. theseeker4. my apologies. perhaps I might have taken it badly. Thanks again..

 

[Maxkling]

The beer tastes really really good (to me) but I wouldn't mind a little bit more of a kick..

Dude if you drink that beer more than a glass at a time you intestine will explode from the gas created by drinking pure starch water.

 

[chickypad]

Can I add enzymes to the initial mash? prior to boil? or would this kill the enzymes?

Really. The beer tastes really really good (to me) but I wouldn't mind a little bit more of a kick.. It is a sweeter beer so I don't think making it dry would be much of a problem. Also if I were to throw enzymes in the secondary fermenter. how long would I wait before kegging? (on average)

Ideally the enzymes would come from the base malt in your mash. I would second How to Brew as a good source to gain a better overview of the whole mashing process. There is also an article here that explains diastatic power.

Blending is an interesting idea, may be easier than trying to fix with enzymes.

 

[theseeker4]

thanks. all. theseeker4. my apologies. perhaps I might have taken it badly. Thanks again..

No problem.

 

[Yooper]

Dude if you drink that beer more than a glass at a time you intestine will explode from the gas created by drinking pure starch water.

I was trying to think of a nicer way to say that, but that it is sort of my thought.

I'm not a sweet person. Oh, well, I am, but I mean I don't have a sweet tooth and I find sweet things quite objectionable. That is great for weight management, as I wouldn't touch a soda or dessert or doughnut- but it means that I would find something with a bit of sweetness pretty unpleasant, so I'm an extremist that way. There is no way I'd be able to drink this beer, even if it did ferment (which it won't). If you like it, and find it pleasant, then once you're certain it won't go any lower, you can package it. Carbonation will make it less sweet tasting, and provide a bit of a lighter body to it. If you like it, that's great and you should drink it.

The tricky part now comes with trying to 'fix' a flawed recipe. You may be able to add amylase, but it won't stop fermenting if it 'works'. With a boatload of honey malt, as much as base malt, it just won't ever be a quaffable beer and if amylase is added it may not even be drinkable in the end.

To me, this is a dumper due to the recipe itself. It'd be like making a recipe of spaghetti sauce, using 50% tomatoes and 50% onions, or something like that. Honey malt is a 'seasoning' malt, best in .25-5 pounds per 5 gallon batch (or less). It's like salt, or onions. I love salt, but few dishes would be ok with 50%ish of salt.

If you like it now, and find it drinkable, I'd recommend just drinking it as it won't get better with 'fixing' it.

 

[paperairplane]

I'm with Yooper, this recipe is just not a good recipe. The fix is don't do it this way again.

5# of honey malt killed it - I made a honey brown ale and only used 4oz. And that was with 10# of marris otter as base.

Study some recipes for styles you are trying to make and note ratios of base malt / specialty / etc.

You could add amalyse enzyme - and it will ferment more - but I don't think you are going to be happy with how it ends up.