When to secondary?

[ntapsak]

I want to ask some advice for a batch I’ve been fermenting since January. Here was my recipe:

12 lbs blackberry blossom honey
3 lbs wildflower honey
1 pack of WLP720 Sweet Mead Yeast
5 tsp nutrient/energizer mix (2 tsp on day 1, 2 tsp after 24 hrs, 1 tsp after 48 hrs)

OG 1.110

I created a 2L starter with the yeast on Jan 4 with a tsp of nutrient and ½ lb honey. Yeast count doubled, so I mixed up the rest and pitched the starter on Jan 6. Fermentation was very healthy and steady for weeks, though it significantly slowed at the end of January, but stayed healthy and constant. Temp has always been 68 F. Current gravity is 1.030, so 10.5% ABV (70% attenuation, low end of the range; White Labs says the range is 70-90%). I just warmed it and sloshed it around to try and kick up more yeast from the bottom (and also degas) to try and encourage it some more.

My plan is to move to secondary for two months and oak. My question is, when should I make the transfer? Fermentation has been so sluggish for weeks (it took ten days to go from 1.035 to 1.030). I think my preferred FG would be 1.015-1.020. From what I've researched, for most folks this yeast ferments pretty unpredictably: for many it dries out to 1.010, for some, not so much. I'm afraid I may be at a "stuck" stage. Should I transfer it to secondary or not? It is a "Sweet Mead" yeast, after all.

 

[pvtpublic]

Why not just add the oak for two months? It reduces the risk of oxidation and contamination. I wouldn't worry about autolysis in that amount of time, so long as your yeast was in good shape and had a healthy ferment.

 

[ntapsak]

When I started the batch, I only had a plastic bucket fermentor (one which doesn't have a perfect seal), though now I have glass carboys. I feel uncomfortable with leaving mead to age in a plastic bucket as opposed to glass--I was under the impression that I shouldn't age in plastic. That's why I haven't just addded the oak already.

 

[MightyMosin]

It took 10 days to move 5 points, but it was still fermenting. I wouldn't open it for another 10 days or so and then check to see if it is still working on the sugars.

If I wanted that SG lower, I would just leave it alone and let the yeast do their job until they tap out as they will continue to work after you rack though possibly with a smaller colony.

 

[Maylar]

1.030 is a lot of remaining sugar, especially after more than a month. And the sugars in honey are simple sugars, supposedly 100% fermentable. Attenuation doesn't really apply to mead and wine. Any yeast that I've used has taken my meads below 1.000. I wonder if you just have a ferment that has topped out the yeast's alcohol tolerance. Whatever you do, do not add more nutrient or energizer - it won't be consumed by the yeast at this point.

 

[ntapsak]

Attenuation doesn't really apply to mead and wine.

This is what I had thought, too, but White Labs themselves claim that it will not fully ferment out, so that's what I expect.

Anyways, thanks guys. I thought the conservative option (wait and see, don't touch it!) was going to be the better one.

 

[Raptor99]

Attenuation doesn't really apply to mead and wine.

Attenuation is a property of the yeast. It will affect the result whether you are making wine, mead, or cider.

And the sugars in honey are simple sugars, supposedly 100% fermentable.

Honey contains may types of sugars: Honey Composition: Sugars Yeast can digest monosaccharides (a single simple sugar molecule) and disaccharides (two simple sugar molecules), but not "higher sugars" (more then two simple sugar molecules). According to the chart in the link above, depending on variety honey can contain from 1% to 7% higher sugars. Without an added enzyme to break them down, the higher sugars will remain after fermentation and add some sweetness.

 

[Maylar]

Honey contains many types of sugars: Honey Composition: Sugars Yeast can digest monosaccharides (a single simple sugar molecule) and disaccharides (two simple sugar molecules), but not "higher sugars" (more then two simple sugar molecules). According to the chart in the link above, depending on variety honey can contain from 1% to 7% higher sugars. Without an added enzyme to break them down, the higher sugars will remain after fermentation and add some sweetness.

Thanks muchly for that. I was always told that there are no complex sugars in honey. I'm bookmarking that link. Thanks.

 

[ntapsak]

Some updates:

Racked to secondary on 2/19/23 and added 2 oz. oak cubes to the secondary vessel. There wasn't really much least of sediment in the bottom of the primary vessel, but after spending a few days in my basement (at 64 F), I was noticing lots of sedimentation and clarification within 5 days. Gravity held at 1.030.

On 2/24/23, not seeing any signs of fermentation (gravity still the same, yeast falling out of suspension, clarifying, no bubbles or anything), I tried to rehydrate a packet of EC-1118 and pitched that with some leftover yeast from another batch (same strain, pitch date 24.2). Not much activity today (3/5/23) and the yeast didn't seem to even hydrate well (I used the right temp, so what gives?). But after much swirling and a gravity reading today, it came out at 1.026 or 1.027, so that's a tiny bit of progress.

I know mead takes a long time, but dang. 3 months seems like too long for primary. I think my original yeast kicked the bucket at 10.5% ABV (71% attenuation). Any ideas why it may be taking this long? Even the EC-1118 seems to be struggling.

 

[CKuhns]

Yeast are inhibited by pH, CO2 and alcohol. If you started at 1.110 and are presently at 1.026 gives you nearly 11% ABV. With that said EC 1118 is good to about 18+%. 64F should be near the center of its temperature recommendation. Slightly low.

Yes 3 months is pretty long but certainly not unheard of.
- It still is moving so definately not done.

I would consider doing the following.
- Nothing, let it finish, it will be done when its done. Eac 1118 may acclimate and keep chugging along.
- If you just cant wait...
- Swirl it a couple times a day to get the yeast settled suspended.
- Raise the temp by 5 or 6 degrees.
- Check pH and if less than 3.0 adjust with some potasium carbonate
Reference Potassium and pH in Mead.

Good luck, let us know how it comes along.

 

[ntapsak]

Yeast are inhibited by pH, CO2 and alcohol. If you started at 1.110 and are presently at 1.026 gives you nearly 11% ABV. With that said EC 1118 is good to about 18+%. 64F should be near the center of its temperature recommendation. Slightly low.

Yes 3 months is pretty long but certainly not unheard of.
- It still is moving so definitely not done.

I would consider doing the following.
- Nothing, let it finish, it will be done when its done. Eac 1118 may acclimate and keep chugging along.
- If you just cant wait...
- Swirl it a couple times a day to get the yeast settled suspended.
- Raise the temp by 5 or 6 degrees.
- Check pH and if less than 3.0 adjust with some potasium carbonate
Reference Potassium and pH in Mead.

Good luck, let us know how it comes along.

Thanks, I've been considering checking pH because I haven't at all since I started.

Another thing to consider: I really, really like the taste of this mead sweet and I'm out of the honey I started with, so I couldn't backsweeten with it. Is there any reason I shouldn't halt fermentation and stabilize once it reaches a sweetness I like?

 

[Maylar]

Halting fermentation is easier said than done.

 

[CKuhns]

As @Maylar suggested halting an active fermentation is often a bit problematic, even more so with EC 1118 involved as that yeast is pretty robust.

I let my mead finish. If not 1.004 or less i cold crash, clarify with time and or KC Super Kleet (read a newspaper through it clear) and pasteurize still. (To pasteurize there is a sticky on the Cider forum that describes it well.)

With that said. Yes, you can stabilize, clarify if you desire and bottle sweet. I would not bottle it for at least a month after AND with no gravity drop during that time. Even then it might be a good idea to pasteurize. NOTE - Most on the forum would suggest pasteurizing after stabilizing is not necessary.

Full disclosure - I dont use the chemicals required to stabilize as i am sensative to them, so have no expierience doing so. I rely on clarifying like mentioned, filtering if still slowly fermenting or pasteurization to ensure the remaining yeast are either dead or not present.

 

[ntapsak]

I now know that my EC-1118 was not mostly dead, as I had suspected. I warmed up the mead to just over room temp overnight and it's now visibly chugging away. Guess I'm just going to have dry mead. Halting it is definitely wishful thinking, though I may keep thinking about it...

 

[CKuhns]

Most of my mead goes dry.

Age 12 to 24 months helps a lot! The fusels transform and as the mead mellows the honey comes through making it appear sweeter than it is. As well if your so inclined you could add fruit. For some reason at least to my pallet the fruit flavor kind of tricks your tongue / brain into thinking its sweeter than it is.