Looking to brew my first IPA using malt extract. Tips on good extracts and priming tips?

[Miraculix]

Haha yeah, sorry. I figured it would not make too much difference but you can never be too sure. Like I was thinking if the water volume somehow is not enough to contain all the stuff that comes out of the hops? XD I dunno. But you are right, I do overthink things. But thanks for confirming stuff for me anyway. I'm sure it's not easy keeping calm when I ask so much and so frequently Thanks again

EDIT: The water volume part was aimed at 5L vs 4L. I got confused as to what part I was overthinking lol

The basic idea is not so wrong, there is a certain limit how much of the isomerized alpha acids (aka the ibus) can be dissolved in a defined volume of water. There are factors that lower these maximum ibus per amount of water and the biggest factor is what else is solved in the water besides the stuff that comes out of the hops. The more proteins and sugars are already in the water, the less ibus it can keep. This is why a hop tea in water only, without any extract or malt in it, is so good. Wort (water with extract) can solve something around 100 ibus max. This would not be enough, if you have to dilute this by the factor 4..... but water without anything can solve muuuuch more ibus. I tried this myself multiple times, it really makes a huge difference.

 

[Matheos]

The basic idea is not so wrong, there is a certain limit how much of the isomerized alpha acids (aka the ibus) can be dissolved in a defined volume of water. There are factors that lower these maximum ibus per amount of water and the biggest factor is what else is solved in the water besides the stuff that comes out of the hops. The more proteins and sugars are already in the water, the less ibus it can keep. This is why a hop tea in water only, without any extract or malt in it, is so good. Wort (water with extract) can solve something around 100 ibus max. This would not be enough, if you have to dilute this by the factor 4..... but water without anything can solve muuuuch more ibus. I tried this myself multiple times, it really makes a huge difference.

This makes a lot of sense!

 

[Matheos]

Brew day Was wondering why CraigTube on youtube has this to say about Hop Tea though:

You have to have a malt extract or some sort of a sweet wort going on to boil the hops in. If you don't have that and you are just using water, you are not going to get the bittering effect that you want. There's isomerization that has to take place and that will only happen if you're boiling your hops in a wort.

Source: at 2:30

Is this still regarded as valid? Video is from 2011. It feels to be contradictory to what you guys are telling me. I am not of course saying you are wrong by any means, but I was just wondering if someone has an explanation to this statement?

 

[Miraculix]

Brew day Was wondering why CraigTube on youtube has this to say about Hop Tea though:

Source: at 2:30

Is this still regarded as valid? Video is from 2011. It feels to be contradictory to what you guys are telling me. I am not of course saying you are wrong by any means, but I was just wondering if someone has an explanation to this statement?

Because this utterly complete bollocks, nonsense, BS, I cannot believe someone is posting crap like this on youtube and even has followers.

As I said, I did this myself many times... so no worries.

 

[Matheos]

Because this utterly complete bollocks, nonsense, BS, I cannot believe someone is posting crap like this on youtube and even has followers.

As I said, I did this myself many times... so no worries.

Haha thanks. Yea not worried, just wanted to know if anyone could defend this statement in any way. I've been watching a few of his older videos (before I joined this forum), and people in the comments are only saying good things. So it's a bit odd. But doesn't matter. You have experience with almost 1:1 from what I am doing today, so it's goin to be fine I will relax, and a have a homebrew (Love that book)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

A lot of things are almost word for word identical to some tips I have got on here, which is nice to see

Over time, you may find that it's both "good" and "bad".

Some tips and book information, especially those tips that involve active dry yeast and DME/LME, don't "age well". Knowing the original source for the tip is often critical to understanding if the approach is appropriate, situation specific, or past it's "use by" date.

 

[Matheos]

Over time, you may find that it's both "good" and "bad".

Some tips and book information, especially those tips that involve active dry yeast and DME/LME, don't "age well". Knowing the original source for the tip is often critical to understanding if the approach is appropriate, situation specific, or past it's "use by" date.

I understand what you mean. Not every "life hack" "in the book" is mentioned in this book, not even the latest edition. Those I get from here and elsewhere and with experience I learn to understand what thing are interchangeable and what stuff to question. So far the tips I've gotten have been pretty on par with the stuff mention in this book, with the exception of it advising against NOT boiling DME. But yes I completely get your point

 

[Matheos]

BREW DAY UPDATE
Hello everyone. I understand if some of you have not followed along this mile long thread all the way, but here is a "major" update, at least since the thread started

Brewing went well 19L of beer currently fermenting

First batch and second batch in the same picture

My expected OG was 1046 and my measured OG was 1047, which I think is really good

Now I have to wait impatiently to dry hop. I think in total the brew took about 1.5h after the boil started. Very easy
I did use a whisk to mix the DME, as I wanted to dissolve the clumps even though I know it would not matter too much in the end Maybe at least I got a more accurate OG this way?

Anyway, thanks again so far to you all, with a special mention to @Miraculix who have basically held my hand all the way. I will post more updates as the fermentation finishes and I dry hop and so on

 

[ATLBeer]

Looks great, congrats!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

with the exception of it [the book?] advising against NOT boiling DME

Many of the "no boil" DME recipes pasteurize the wort - as the recipes will do a "hop stand" / "hop steep" at 180F-ish for 20 to 30 minutes.

The other thing to keep in mind when reading forums is that different brands of the same style of DME will have different flavors and different characteristics. A while back, I brewed the same recipe with two different brands of "light" DME - and I saw both sides of the discussion on "hot break or not' with "extract".

 

[Matheos]

Many of the "no boil" DME recipes pasteurize the wort - as the recipes will do a "hop stand" / "hop steep" at 180F-ish for 20 to 30 minutes.

The other thing to keep in mind when reading forums is that different brands of the same style of DME will have different flavors and different characteristics. A while back, I brewed the same recipe with two different brands of "light" DME - and I saw both sides of the discussion on "hot break or not' with "extract".

Most recipes I've seen on youtube or elsewhere, I feel have had hop editions only during the boil or after, not before. Steeping of grains though, I have noticed is very common, though that happens before the malt is added (right?), but maybe grain steep always calls for pasteurized wort (I mean boiling malt after)? The different permutations possible are endless, and I'm not personally sure which ones make sense and which ones don't. My point was bottom line that I haven't come across a hop steep recipe yet (that I can recall). Though my experience in recipes is very limited still.

The thing with DME differing from brand to brand I've noticed. Hopefully calculators like brewersfriend have accurate stats per brand, to account for these differences before brewing. But ofc you can't always be that fortunate.

EDIT: How fitting I came to this chapter in "The complete Joy of Homebrewing" now:

Most malt extracts for homebrewing are of excellent quality, but they will vary according to the character of beer that was intended by the individual malt manufacturer. The light malt extract made by one malt manufacturer will make a beer distinctively different from that made by another.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Hopefully calculators like brewersfriend have accurate stats per brand, to account for these differences before brewing. But ofc you can't always be that fortunate.

Most DME is around 44 ppg and most LME is around 36 ppg, so recipe calculators will be able to use that to provide a good estimate for OG. Color estimates are difficult - the primary problems seem to be proper measurement of color and brewing the beer clear enough to not impact the measurements.

grain steep always calls for pasteurized wort

It does.

I haven't come across a hop steep recipe yet (that I can recall).

"Hop steep" and "whirlpool hops" are often used interchangably. This step occurs after "flame-out" - as the wort cools to around 170F, hops are added, and the wort is held at 170F for around 20 to 30 minutes (temperature and time will vary based on the recipe).

With regard to "no boil" recipes, American IPA - Blasphemy - No Boil NEIPA & No-Boil Recipes! New for 2019! will get you started.

 

[Matheos]

Update: Bottling done
Thought I would leave you guys a quick update. So we bottled today, actually got a second vessel in order to mix the priming solution directly into the wort, rather than priming every individual bottle. This all went fine and we ended up with about 17,5L of beer on bottles

An odd thing that never happened though, a lot of krausen did never drop. I have read this happens at times, and I hope it is fine? We recorded an FG of 1,005 which is way lower than expected (1,012). So this makes me quite confident fermentation had finished.

We dry hoped for a bit more than 2 days.

Considering doing secondary fermentation for next batch, just to clear the beer up more and perhaps solve krausen not falling and stuff.

Have to wait now another 2 weeks to see the end product and if we succeeded or failed

 

[Matheos]

Update: Drinking has begun
It's now been more than a week since we tried this beer for the first time. Initial thoughts were positive. It is slightly hoppy, but not a lot
I think it may lack a bit of bitterness. Once you have swallowed, there is really no traces left in your mouth barely. Head retention is also almost non existant, you might get a bit of a head for half a minute, but it quickly wanishes. Carbonation is quite OK. First bottles I thought it felt a bit stale, but recently I have grown to appreciate that it is not super carbonated. Lastly, I am a bit surprised of how cloudy it still is. I did not do secondary, but I bottle conditioned for 2 weeks, and the beer in the picture has been on bottle for 3 weeks and about 2-3 days in the fridge.

All in all, I would say this beer is a success. It turned out to be higher ABV than expected (Around 5,5%), but that is ok
The batch I will bottle today has bitterness hops boiled together with a bit of DME, so will see if we achieve better bitterness when not boiling in plain water. Also will be interesting to see the difference between tap water (this batch) and bottled water (next batch).
This beer was extremely easy to make and effort + price to taste and amount ratio I would say is great!

Thanks yet again to everyone in this thread who have helped me through the journey of making my first "real beer"! Special mentions to @Miraculix and @BrewnWKopperKat <3