Let's talk Oats

[the_ale_scale]

So are instant oatmeal's really good enough quality for brewing? And as for rolled and flaked oats do they really need to be pre cooked before the mash?

 

[m00ps]

I only use 1-minute/instant/quick oats for all my brewing. You can use any kind, even steel cut, but they require mashing and stuff to work. Rolled or Flaked works fine. But my favorite thing to do with aots is toast a few pounds in the oven and use maybe 1/2 lb in any oatmeal beer. Unlike just regular old oats, it gives a nice oatmeal cookie character

 

[biertourist]

I only use 1-minute/instant/quick oats for all my brewing. You can use any kind, even steel cut, but they require mashing and stuff to work.

All oats require mashing; they don't have enzymes necessary for conversion.

If you're not mashing oats you're just adding starch to your beer and food for unwanted microorganisms.



Adam

 

[biertourist]

So are instant oatmeal's really good enough quality for brewing? And as for rolled and flaked oats do they really need to be pre cooked before the mash?

Instant oatmeal oats are really good enough for brewing. Having said that you DO have to mash them; they are not for use as "steeping only" additions.

Rolled / Flaked oats are the same thing oats are put through a roller which presses them into a flake, some people call them "rolled" oats for that reason while others call them "flaked" oats because of how they look.


There's a few additional items you may want to know:

• Raw oats and steel cut oats require gelatinization prior to be used in the mash so that their starches are accessible for extraction and conversion.
  Cooking / boiling before using them gelatinizes the starches. Oats start gelatinizing between 127-138F so any temperature of 138 or above will do the job.
• We covered that rolled/ flaked oats are essentially the same thing. They are graded so that they're the same size and broken/ pest infected ones are thrown out, they're cleaned and "pearled" which removes the outer husk material. (If you cook raw or steel cut oats (what they sound like -raw oats that have just been chopped up into smaller pieces) you will still have the husk on them -this is why they're considered "more healthy" -more fiber) Then the rolled/ flaked oats are steamed which heats the oats above their gelatinization temperature and makes them easier to flatten in the next step. Finally they're rolled flat between metal rollers that crush them flat.
• "Quick" vs. "Old Fashioned" oats: both are rolled/flaked oats but quick oats are cut into smaller pieces so they cook faster.
• You're going to get better / faster extraction if you mill those oats or break them up by pounding on them with a mallet / rolling pin prior to using them but most home brew stores look down upon doing this with their grain mills as flaked grains can clog up the mills.

Mash temps are higher than oat gelatinization temps so even if they've only been partially gelatinized during processing by the steam and partially broken up, they'll continue gelatinization in the mashtun and then the starches become available for conversion.


Obviously if you're just looking for the slick velvety feeling that you get from oats in a stout you technically COULD use oats as a steeping addition in an extract beer and you WOULD extract the velvety beta glucans, BUT the problem is that you're adding lots of unfermentable and haze forming starch that also serves to feed unwanted microorganisms. You'll also miss your target gravity because you won't get any gravity points from steeping oats since you won't be getting any actual sugars from them. (Only starches.)

My gelatinization + conversion analogy:
Gelatinization is essentially the same in all of our brewing grains/adjuncts: the starches are packaged up in tight efficient-for-storage-but-not-for-using coiled packages and they're pretty hard for enzymes to "attack" / react with in this state. Once you reach the gelatinization temperature of your particular grain (gelatinization temp varies by the specific grain) the starches get "unpacked" and are now much more accessible by the enzymes. -Think if you had a HUGE plastic bag filled with 200 marshmallows and you had 50 small children who were rushing into the room trying to eat as many mashmallows as they could in as little time as they could. They'd all be in fighting and clawing to get around that bag to the marshmallows and would only be able to grab the marshmallows on the outside of the bundle -if this were your mash, your 60 min mash would probably be over before the kids can get to the marshmallows in the middle of the mashmallow mass/ball. Now if you "gelatinize" your marshmallow bag before the kids get there you break open the bag and throw the marshmallows everywhere about the room -when the kids rush in they can be equally distributed through the room and just each quickly gobble up the marshmallows around them. This is the gelatinization / conversation problem.

Adam

 

[WayFrae]

All oats require mashing; they don't have enzymes necessary for conversion.

If you're not mashing oats you're just adding starch to your beer and food for unwanted microorganisms.



Adam

I think he means you have to cereal mash steel cut oats before you should add them to your mash tun. but you can just throw instant/flaked/rolled oats in your mash tun.

 

[imasickboy]

.....a bunch of useful oat stuff.....

Adam

That is seriously much more thought than I've ever put into oats, and I use them somewhat more often than many others do, I imagine.

Thanks for the in depth info. Appreciated.

 

[AerationStation]

But my favorite thing to do with aots is toast a few pounds in the oven and use maybe 1/2 lb in any oatmeal beer. Unlike just regular old oats, it gives a nice oatmeal cookie character

I've tried this in oatmeal stouts a few times and I feel like I get a sort of harsh, astringent flavor from them (as opposed to untoasted oats). A guy from my club brought in one of his that used toasted oats and I still picked up that same harshness.

Could be that I'm letting them toast too long or it could be all in my head.

Just my 2 cents

 

[m00ps]

I've tried this in oatmeal stouts a few times and I feel like I get a sort of harsh, astringent flavor from them (as opposed to untoasted oats). A guy from my club brought in one of his that used toasted oats and I still picked up that same harshness.

Could be that I'm letting them toast too long or it could be all in my head.

Just my 2 cents

When I first read about toasting malts, people recommended to store them in a paper bag to absorb any harsh aromatics. They said after 2 weeks in the bag, they are good to go. So all of mine are kept in paper bags, but I never noticed a harshness even using them a few days later

 

[F_R_O_G]

I've made a number of oatmeal stouts and this is what I've found.

instant oats is easier (same at regular oats in taste and quality)
you should, but don't have to mash the oats
when cooking regular oats for beer add more water to the oats than you would with making oatmeal

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-2.html

edit: just noticed you live in Woodinville biertourist. I'll give you oatmeal stout I made with steeped oats that everyone i know likes. if your up for it

 

[biertourist]

I think he means you have to cereal mash steel cut oats before you should add them to your mash tun. but you can just throw instant/flaked/rolled oats in your mash tun.

No I just mean that you have to mash them SOMEHOW. You have to hold them between 60 and 70 degrees Celsius for roughly an hour with a decent amount of high diastastic power basemalts to ensure converstion.

This mashing could be done in your regular mashtun, or you could just do a mini-mash with a bit of basemalt and the oats separately -the mini mash in a separate vessel would be the equivalent of a mega brewery's "cereal masher" but it's really unnecessary to do two separate mashes. And of course there isn't a mega lager brewery that uses oats in their cereal masher- really just corn or rice.


Adam

 

[biertourist]

I've made a number of oatmeal stouts and this is what I've found.

instant oats is easier (same at regular oats in taste and quality)
you should, but don't have to mash the oats
when cooking regular oats for beer add more water to the oats than you would with making oatmeal

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-2.html

edit: just noticed you live in Woodinville biertourist. I'll give you oatmeal stout I made with steeped oats that everyone i know likes. if your up for it

Free beer? -Yea, I'm game.

I didn't say you couldn't use steeped oats, simply that you'd be adding unwanted starches to your beer that will make it cloudy and more susceptible to long-term infection. (You won't notice the cloudiness in a dark stout, but go ahead and use the same steeped oats in any non-black beer you will see the cloudiness. You're also not getting any additional gravity points from the oats by just steeping, but you would if you mini mashed them.

Long term flavor stability is the issue. (Yea I realize not really a major concern for home brewers.)


Adam

 

[the_ale_scale]

Thank you all for your help. Let me make sure I've got this right, "instant oats" can be mashed straight away with the other base malts. And rolled or flaked oats need to be pre cooked and then mashed? A few extra steps I wasn't really planning on but that's ok

 

[WayFrae]

Thank you all for your help. Let me make sure I've got this right, "instant oats" can be mashed straight away with the other base malts. And rolled or flaked oats need to be pre cooked and then mashed? A few extra steps I wasn't really planning on but that's ok

No, flaked/rolled oats are already precooked in the process that makes them flaked/rolled. You can just throw them in the mash tun.

 

[the_ale_scale]

How about malted oats?

 

[gwapogorilla]

Malted oats can be crushed and added to your mash...just as you would 2 row malt. They don't convert themselves, so when using in larger amounts be to have some well modified malts in the mix with them.

I love oats, and I am currently pushing "my" limits as to the uses of them.
Example...last week I brewed "Oatlander"...a IPA recipe I whipped up using 40% golden naked oats. The other 60% of the grist was 6-row. I whirl-pooled Jarrylo and Caliente hops. It smelled great brewing!
How did it look? Murky.....just like when you mix Quaker oats instant cereal. After 7 days it settled out a little, but I can assure you I'm going to have to use some gelatin in this batch to clear it up.
5 more weeks until a glassful. I am looking forward to it.

 

[m00ps]

Malted oats can be crushed and added to your mash...just as you would 2 row malt. They don't convert themselves, so when using in larger amounts be to have some well modified malts in the mix with them.

I love oats, and I am currently pushing "my" limits as to the uses of them.
Example...last week I brewed "Oatlander"...a IPA recipe I whipped up using 40% golden naked oats. The other 60% of the grist was 6-row. I whirl-pooled Jarrylo and Caliente hops. It smelled great brewing!
How did it look? Murky.....just like when you mix Quaker oats instant cereal. After 7 days it settled out a little, but I can assure you I'm going to have to use some gelatin in this batch to clear it up.
5 more weeks until a glassful. I am looking forward to it.

dude golden naked oats are the shucking fit. I've been adding them to just about everything lately. I always eat a handful every time I open the bag to add some to my grain bill. I want to try them with milk and a cereal bowl. Let me know how that turned out. I've been curious sabout those two 2 hops too.