Let's start some controversy....to secondary or not?

[Exbeerienced]

This is a forum. Which means we "talk", and it is completely inappropriate to tell someone they can't post or shouldn't because it's been done before. I'm sorry that some members feel that way- to say that they feel they should be confined to only reading other threads and using the search makes me feel bad.

No one is holding a gun to anybody's head making them answer- if you choose not to rehash/discuss/answer, that's cool. The great thing about having 80,000 members in this forum means that there is always something for everybody to discuss.

Thanks, Yooper. What I don't understand, is if a topic is old hat to an experienced poster, why doesn't he just ignore it then, and let the new folks enjoy discussing the topic? Really it's that simple!

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, Yooper. What I don't understand, is if a topic is old hat to an experienced poster, why doesn't he just ignore it then, and let the new folks enjoy discussing the topic? Really it's that simple!

Yes, it really IS that simple. I don't understand it either.

 

[bob1852]

Sadly, we missed many of those interesting discussions and are naturally discouraged from being allowed to discuss them again.

You did miss the great cinnamon debate of 2009...

 

[samc]

I understand it as being a loss of control of the discussion. Someone might have invested a lot of time posting "gospel" in one major thread and they might fear the outbreak of new ideas/thoughts in a new thread.

Not saying this is the case but it could be an answer.

 

[mikeysab]

To me, the OP was just looking to stir up some crap. Starting with the thread title "Let's start some controversy", but if starting controversy is within the rules, then that's fine. Then to continue that thread name with a "to secondary or not", which has been used in many previous threads, seemed like a little overkill on the subject.

We're all free to beat a dead horse if we want. I was looking out for HBT's interests, not my own.

 

[Homercidal]

Yes, it really IS that simple. I don't understand it either.

I ignored it. I only peeked again to see if this thread was actually still going.

Now it's back to the airlock thread!!

 

[wildwest450]

When you start a thread with "lets start some controversy", it's clear he has read more than a few threads on here and is just looking for attention. So in my book, he's open to whatever he get's.

_

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Thanks, Yooper. What I don't understand, is if a topic is old hat to an experienced poster, why doesn't he just ignore it then, and let the new folks enjoy discussing the topic? Really it's that simple!

Or POLITELY offer a link to another discussion that contains a discussion of the subject. It's home Homebrewtalk not Homebrewsearch or HomebrewctrlC/V

That said...when you start a thread with the title "Let's start some controversy", you're kinda asking for some, well, controversy.

 

[LandoLincoln]

There's another controversial subject. You're not dry hopping long enough

Heresy. Dry hopping is never necessary. Just use the right amounts of hops during the boil, you newb.

 

[BrewKnurd]

When you start a thread with "lets start some controversy", it's clear he has read more than a few threads on here and is just looking for attention. So in my book, he's open to whatever he get's.

_

I will agree that's an odd way to start a thread. I think someone else started a thread with a similar "lets fight!" tone to it a couple days ago. I don't get it.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Heresy. Dry hopping is never necessary. Just use the right amounts of hops during the boil, you newb.

LIAR! If you don't dry hope everything, including your blonde ales and octoberfests, you are a failure as a brewer!!!

 

[Yooper]

To me, the OP was just looking to stir up some crap. Starting with the thread title "Let's start some controversy", but if starting controversy is within the rules, then that's fine. Then to continue that thread name with a "to secondary or not", which has been used in many previous threads, seemed like a little overkill on the subject.

We're all free to beat a dead horse if we want. I was looking out for HBT's interests, not my own.

Ok, that makes sense to me, and I can see that.

The title of the thread does seem to be "let's start an argument", not "let's have a nice debate on the pros and cons and get some new ideas and opinions".

Even so, we can join the discussion or not. Someone who is trolling (not saying that is the case here) will stop if they don't get a reaction, while someone who is genuinely interested in the subject will find a new way to communicate that. My current pet peeves in this forum are the "cut and paste" answers, the "use the search noob" response, or, worse, the whole "if you would actually pay attention you'd know this was asked four times today already."

Let's all be a bit sensitive to that, remembering that many of new homebrewers might not be forum-savvy. I certainly wasn't, and the only reason I stayed on this forum (after working up the nerve to even post!) was because I was not treated like a stupid person who had the audacity to ask two very basic questions.

Ok, now- let's get back on topic and remember our manners.

 

[broadbill]

Ok, that makes sense to me, and I can see that.

The title of the thread does seem to be "let's start an argument", not "let's have a nice debate on the pros and cons and get some new ideas and opinions".

Even so, we can join the discussion or not. Someone who is trolling (not saying that is the case here) will stop if they don't get a reaction, while someone who is genuinely interested in the subject will find a new way to communicate that. My current pet peeves in this forum are the "cut and paste" answers, the "use the search noob" response, or, worse, the whole "if you would actually pay attention you'd know this was asked four times today already."

Let's all be a bit sensitive to that, remembering that many of new homebrewers might not be forum-savvy. I certainly wasn't, and the only reason I stayed on this forum (after working up the nerve to even post!) was because I was not treated like a stupid person who had the audacity to ask two very basic questions.

Ok, now- let's get back on topic and remember our manners.

As the person who posted a ""if you would actually pay attention you'd know this was asked four times today already."-type response....I saw the OP not as an earnest request for advice but someone who wanted to stir the pot a bit. As such, I decided some snark was in order.

 

[jwalker1140]

To this point, I've only made four extract batches and this has been my experience....

On batch 1, 3 and 4, my schedule was primary for 1 week, secondary for 2 weeks, bottle condition for 3 weeks. These beers came out clear with minimal sediment in the bottles.

On batch 2, a hefeweizen, I left it in the primary for 2 weeks and bottle conditioned for 3 weeks (in part, because of the comments in HBT). The beer tastes great but there is a tremendous amount of sediment in the bottles that stirs up easily, even after being in bottle for a couple months and spending up to a week in the fridge. I don't mind too much because of the type of beer, but I don't think I'd like this if I had made a non-cloudy style of beer.

This experience caused me to go back to using a secondary, but perhaps I should try again and spend 3-4 weeks in the primary rather than only 2.

 

[Revvy]

Funny, the OP didn't have and issue with anyone's answers, in fact he thought the responses in this thread were, in HIS VERY WORDS, "gentle."

All right, all right, I admit I should have searched through the threads first. Sorry, it had been on my mind all night and I had 2 minutes to dig, so I chose starting the thread. Not trying to be a troll

If it shows anything, it's that the community here is willing to jump in and help, even if it's been asked before. Thanks for being gentle, gentle-men.

I always find it amusing when, even if the original poster doesn't take offense to what is happening IN HIS OWN THREAD, someone else feels the need to be "indignant" for them.

I think most folks were more getting at the point that the OP wanted this thread to be some big controversial debate, when as many have said, it's no longer a debate, or a controversy- it's now seen as a mainstream choice these days.

Some folks thought he was trolling, though I didn't. But the tone did put folks on their guard.

It's not a big scandal like it was oh those many years ago when folks were trolled on here for DARING to believe that autolysis wasn't the rule rather than a rare exception and MAYBE John Palmer might not have been a brewing god, infallable, but may have made a mistake in his belief in that.

Now it is really just a matter of deciding to secondary or not...not that one method is any worse then the other.

Additionally, I truly believe that when folks start a thread, they truly want information. If I ask for some info, and someone points me to where the best info is, I don't feel shut down, I'm thankful. Especially if where I'm being pointed to has what I'm looking for.

Had "people with a lot of experience" just chosen to ignore this thread, the OP would have gotten basically a handful of inexperienced brewers with very little insights, nor would they necessarily been pointed to exactly where on here the answers to what they were looking for.

No-one's really stifling discussion on here. But in honesty if the OP really wants INFORMATION, then, well personally, I would rather be steared in the direction of said info, rather than maybe have a thread where the last 2 or 3 folks on here who haven't answered it a million times do so.

And all the folks most experienced in this topic ignore it, because they feel they've said it all in great detail already......

The information we've already posted doesn't vanish...it's here as long as the internet is. It can be tapped at any time.

And in this case, there's a lot of great info and opinion, in depth in THAT THREAD.


Me, I don't care whether the "opinions" or information is fresh, or not, I just would rather have it be good, and varied. And in reality, it wouldn't be if it were just here in this thread.

Just my two cents.

 

[broadbill]

To this point, I've only made four extract batches and this has been my experience....

On batch 1, 3 and 4, my schedule was primary for 1 week, secondary for 2 weeks, bottle condition for 3 weeks. These beers came out clear with minimal sediment in the bottles.

On batch 2, a hefeweizen, I left it in the primary for 2 weeks and bottle conditioned for 3 weeks (in part, because of the comments in HBT). The beer tastes great but there is a tremendous amount of sediment in the bottles and it isn't very compacted, even after a couple months and up to a week in the fridge. I don't mind too much because of the type of beer, but I don't think I'd like this if I were making a non-cloudy style of beer.

This experience caused me to go back to using a secondary, but perhaps I should try again and spend 3-4 weeks in the primary rather than only 2.

Your hefe is cloudy because its a hefe, not because you skipped the secondary.

 

[danorocks17]

sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. hope that's clear enough lol

 

[jwalker1140]

Your hefe is cloudy because its a hefe, not because you skipped the secondary.

Yes, but it's appropriately cloudy in the bottle before I stir the quarter- to half-inch layer of clumpy sediment. I've never seen this much sediment in a commercial hefe.

I concede that my issue may be related to something other than my decision to forgo a secondary (as I mentioned, I don't have much experience at this). I am thinking about giving it another try. Would certainly be easier.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I'm a newb, and I like to secondary. Clears my beer better..and since I primary in a bucket, secondary in a carboy gives me a chance to see whats happening in the beer a bit better, even if it's not as exciting as watching a beer in primary at high krausen.

BTW, I like NEW ideas too. I appreciate the wealth of information that this site offers, but sometimes the search feature leads you to old threads and more unanswered questions then you had when you started.

I don't know who said it (Mod I think), but the idea that some folks feel like they've made their case already and now new folks aren't bothering to read it has some merit (imho).

There's a reason I have like 4 posts. I end up using the search function on everything, and therefore I miss opportunities to forge relationships...via discussion.

It's no biggie, I have lots of friends, but I bet I'm not the only perpetual lurker. Posting a new thread subjects you to scrutiny, and sometimes ridicule, who wants any part of that?

 

[By-Tor]

Your hefe is cloudy because its a hefe, not because you skipped the secondary.

making me laugh.......what the hell is ....secondary?

 

[broadbill]

making me laugh.......what the hell is ....secondary?

? what do you find funny exactly?

 

[JonK331]

Maybe someone should start a thread called "Don't try to discuss anything because it's already been discussed, use the search function." But, oh wait, this is a forum.

 

[By-Tor]

? what do you find funny exactly?

Take no offence, i'm an idiot

 

[Revvy]

I

There's a reason I have like 4 posts. I end up using the search function on everything, and therefore I miss opportunities to forge relationships...via discussion.

But you can discuss in ANY thread, even an old one.

The Jamil/Palmer thread is one of the most active threads on here. At lest three times a day, morning, afternoon and evening when I click "new posts" or "user cp" that thread has new posts in there. It's got almost the same "legs" as the tap room.

That's the magic of this forum software, you can go as far back as the first post on here, quote it, reply to it, and it becomes active again. Someone's going to jump in, even maybe that person who wrote that thing x years ago. And the conversation continues. Nothing dissapears in this forum (unless it is locked by the mods.) The information is here, the opinions are here, and can come back to life anytime.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Maybe someone should start a thread called "Don't try to discuss anything because it's already been discussed, use the search function." But, oh wait, this is a forum.

We talked about that topic last week. Do try to keep up.

 

[Revvy]

making me laugh.......what the hell is ....secondary?

But actually to someone who has just started brewing in the last year or so, and especially in the next couple years, that's a valid question.

Now that long primary/no secondary has gone "mainstream" where instructions in kits, magazines, podcasts, even recent books, have started to reflect this major shift in brewing culture.

A lot of newer brewers don't necessary know what a secondary is. If all the new discussions, books, and instructions talk about no secondary as if it's nothing new then that will become less of something folks might know about.

 

[Revvy]

Maybe someone should start a thread called "Don't try to discuss anything because it's already been discussed, use the search function." But, oh wait, this is a forum.

Funny, for every who complains about this, you also have folks who post things like "I finally feel the need to introduce myself and say thanks, even though I've been on here for a couple years I rarely feel the need to post, because I find everything I need has already been asked and answered. But I just wanted to say thanks from a lurker, for all the great help I've receioved. I'm a better brewer from reading the stuff on here."

We see posts like that on here all the time...

It's just two sides of the same coin.....Some folks can't be bothered to search and want everything spoon fed, others love digging for their info.

Can't make everyone happy, if some folks just don't want to be happy.

*shrug*

 

[CGVT]

I don't know, maybe some people would like the interaction and the chance to forge relationships the same as people that have been here for years.

Lurking and searching will get you tons of information on this site and that certainly is appreciated, but forums are usually more than that.

Just a thought...

 

[Diver165]

Can't make everyone happy, if some folks just don't want to be happy.

*shrug*

AMEN!

Everyone, RDWHAHB!!!!

 

[nukinfuts29]

I swear every time Revvy posts an angel gets its wings.

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