Lambic Discussion Thread

[JulianB1]

Not that it should be any surprise that some people bought the vintage Cantillon bottles just to flip them, but someone in a Hill Farmstead group is trying to trade Pineau d'Aunis 2010 for "arts and Ann's ratio tbd" [sic]. BadJustin suggested he actually keep it and *gasp* drink it, to which he replied "just dont love lambic".

 

[BadJustin]

Not that it should be any surprise that some people bought the vintage Cantillon bottles just to flip them, but someone in a Hill Farmstead group is trying to trade Pineau d'Aunis 2010 for "arts and Ann's ratio tbd" [sic]. BadJustin suggested he actually keep it and *gasp* drink it, to which he replied "just dont love lambic".

I know him from the art poster/print scene, he's a total noob. Started on beer six months ago and is suddenly "over IPA's" which hey, isn't a bad thing, but man.

You see what he wants? 4:1 with mixed Art(s)/Ann(s) lol.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Not that it should be any surprise that some people bought the vintage Cantillon bottles just to flip them, but someone in a Hill Farmstead group is trying to trade Pineau d'Aunis 2010 for "arts and Ann's ratio tbd" [sic]. BadJustin suggested he actually keep it and *gasp* drink it, to which he replied "just dont love lambic".

Impossible. Justin explained last week that he ditched all FB beer groups. #FakeNews

 

[BadJustin]

Impossible. Justin explained last week that he ditched all FB beer groups. #FakeNews

Shockingly, I mod in this one so it is somewhat tolerable. I can just delete what I don't like.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Shockingly, I mod in this one so it is somewhat tolerable. I can just delete what I don't like.

Ok, Tawd.

 

[BadJustin]

Ok, Tawd.

I'm shutting this down. Too far off topic.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Not that it should be any surprise that some people bought the vintage Cantillon bottles just to flip them, but someone in a Hill Farmstead group is trying to trade Pineau d'Aunis 2010 for "arts and Ann's ratio tbd" [sic]. BadJustin suggested he actually keep it and *gasp* drink it, to which he replied "just dont love lambic".

Saw this trade posted elsewhere on Facebook as well. So stupid. This is exactly why I don't trade for any rarer lambic anymore. The amount of times these kinds of bottles end up getting passed/shipped around anymore nearly guarantees that at some point they were baked in a truck or a trunk of a car.

 

[rfraga7]

Saw this trade posted elsewhere on Facebook as well. So stupid. This is exactly why I don't trade for any rarer lambic anymore. The amount of times these kinds of bottles end up getting passed/shipped around anymore nearly guarantees that at some point they were baked in a truck or a trunk of a car.

Or you can still get them from reliable sources in Europe. There are still some cellars with decent older lambic around out there. I refuse to go after bottles that are being passed around like a hot potatoe.

 

[MikeG1]

I know him from the art poster/print scene, he's a total noob. Started on beer six months ago and is suddenly "over IPA's" which hey, isn't a bad thing, but man.

You see what he wants? 4:1 with mixed Art(s)/Ann(s) lol.

Just needs the right set of eyes and a butt plug and a 9 in. toy.

 

[Digita7693]

Or you can still get them from reliable sources in Europe. There are still some cellars with decent older lambic around out there. I refuse to go after bottles that are being passed around like a hot potatoe.

Listen to Dan Quayle!

 

[BuckTuckian]

I'm shutting this down. Too far off topic.

Can't wait for the MS Paint glory hole in your outhouse picture....

 

[cosmicevan]

Still waiting for tracking info...

Did you get a paypal receipt? I know some people who got emails with tracking but they still show as processing. Bear in mind, it is at least 120 (or whatever number of La Vie they released) boxes to ship out so that takes time as well...but if you never got a tracking email, I'd definitely reach out sooner than later.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Did you get a paypal receipt? I know some people who got emails with tracking but they still show as processing. Bear in mind, it is at least 120 (or whatever number of La Vie they released) boxes to ship out so that takes time as well...but if you never got a tracking email, I'd definitely reach out sooner than later.

Yup, PayPal recorded the transaction and my order history on the Cantillon site shows as 'Payment Accepted'.

 

[CornAndBeer]

I should keep buying it?

Yes, and you should send it to me

 

[Gaseous Clay]

Not that it should be any surprise that some people bought the vintage Cantillon bottles just to flip them, but someone in a Hill Farmstead group is trying to trade Pineau d'Aunis 2010 for "arts and Ann's ratio tbd" [sic]. BadJustin suggested he actually keep it and *gasp* drink it, to which he replied "just dont love lambic".

That's upsetting
I could have drank that

 

[BadJustin]

That's upsetting
I could have drank that

He's not going to get anyone to let go of 4 bottles of Art/Ann.

 

[MikeG1]

He's not going to get anyone to let go of 4 bottles of Art/Ann.

Saugusbrewer

 

[sunnrider]

http://www.belgiansmaak.com/jean-van-roy-brasserie-cantillon/

Jean goes on a rant. Really well worth a listen, open a bottle and sit back

 

[Gaseous Clay]

He's not going to get anyone to let go of 4 bottles of Art/Ann.

I'll happily take the bottle off his ungrateful hands then.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

http://www.belgiansmaak.com/jean-van-roy-brasserie-cantillon/

Jean goes on a rant. Really well worth a listen, open a bottle and sit back

That was a really awesome podcast, thank you for sharing it.

Curious, toward the end of the podcast Jean discusses Zwanze and mentions that prior to 2008 Jean's experimental blends were being given names that Jean himself had not approved or known about. These names were reportedly given by online beer reviewers who had tried the beer at Cantillon. Are there any examples of this found anywhere?

Also super interesting to learn that the reason a majority of Zwanze beer is kegged instead of bottled is to curb black market reselling. Shitlords in the beer community did this, and that's incredibly unfortunate for the entire community.

 

[nathanmiller]

Also super interesting to learn that the reason a majority of Zwanze beer is kegged instead of bottled is to curb black market reselling. Shitlords in the beer community did this, and that's incredibly unfortunate for the entire community.

I actually think it's a really really positive reaction. I also think that Armand's recent statements that he may never sell OGV for offsite again comes down to the same thing.

There's something wonderful about Zwanze Day - more people get to try a unique lambic every year than ever before. I've been going since 2011 and have gotten to try many awesome lambics that otherwise I would never have had access to.

I've gone on and on (and will go on and on in the future) about the supply and demand problems in craft beer (and how imperfect of a market this hobby is). Because supply is so much lower than demand, price needs to go up. But there's more than one way to modify price, and raw dollar amount is not the only tool that these brewers/blenders have. Ability to restrict how supply gets out is another way to solve the same problem - this way, JVR or Armand or whomever can charge a number that they don't find repugnant, and still ensure that secondary marketeers aren't profiting off of their hard work.

If a LOT more breweries began following this model (massively increasing on-site or otherwise restricted availability and eliminating secondary market opportunities), the benefits would be enormous. Right now, there is a "secondary supply" constraint in that so few opportunities exist for things like Zwanze Day that if you miss it, you miss potentially your only opportunity for a unique experience. But if top tier breweries did this kind of thing frequently, you'd miss many but enjoy many as well. Meanwhile, secondary marketeers would fade away as overall demand for unique experiences would be (more) satisfied by such events.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

I actually think it's a really really positive reaction. I also think that Armand's recent statements that he may never sell OGV for offsite again comes down to the same thing.

There's something wonderful about Zwanze Day - more people get to try a unique lambic every year than ever before. I've been going since 2011 and have gotten to try many awesome lambics that otherwise I would never have had access to.

I've gone on and on (and will go on and on in the future) about the supply and demand problems in craft beer (and how imperfect of a market this hobby is). Because supply is so much lower than demand, price needs to go up. But there's more than one way to modify price, and raw dollar amount is not the only tool that these brewers/blenders have. Ability to restrict how supply gets out is another way to solve the same problem - this way, JVR or Armand or whomever can charge a number that they don't find repugnant, and still ensure that secondary marketeers aren't profiting off of their hard work.

If a LOT more breweries began following this model (massively increasing on-site or otherwise restricted availability and eliminating secondary market opportunities), the benefits would be enormous. Right now, there is a "secondary supply" constraint in that so few opportunities exist for things like Zwanze Day that if you miss it, you miss potentially your only opportunity for a unique experience. But if top tier breweries did this kind of thing frequently, you'd miss many but enjoy many as well. Meanwhile, secondary marketeers would fade away as overall demand for unique experiences would be (more) satisfied by such events.

That's an interesting thought and I like your perspective.

I've noticed in the Bay Area that Zwanze has become much harder to try than in years past. Keg holders are creating smaller, more intimate events, and charging a high amount in return for the experience. This seems to be a trend across the states as well. I think it not only further restricts access but it also makes the experience a bit exclusionary in practice. Something i don't necessarily equate with lambic and the lambic community.

I agree that Jean has every right to decide how his beer is packaged, distributed, and sold. It is, afterall, his product. And I also agree that we are left with a lower supply than demand which does bring about issues. However, the response to shitlord behavior is unfortunate as it further exacerbates supply/demand issues and restricts access to more lambic lovers.

I don't want to make it seem like I'm whining about my personal access here. I'm of the idea that lambic lovers should visit Belgium as much as possible and directly support the Brewers and blenders we all love so much, and I've been fortunate enough to do just that. That said, it's hard to not feel upset at the current situation for lambic in the states and the behavior of people who seek to profit off of the unfortunate circumstances.

Question: where did you read and/or hear that Armand will no longer sell OGV to go? Is that a response to reselling sites having it online almost immediately after OBD (and for a ridiculous mark up)?

 

[cosmicevan]

Yup, PayPal recorded the transaction and my order history on the Cantillon site shows as 'Payment Accepted'.

I'd email them, just for a status update. Everyone I know who got bottles all received tracking info around the same time. I know of a bunch of people who were able to get due to the sheer luck of refreshing in the moments before the facebook announcement, and all of them have tracking. As mentioned, their customer service is top notch.

 

[tehzachatak]

Did you get a paypal receipt? I know some people who got emails with tracking but they still show as processing. Bear in mind, it is at least 120 (or whatever number of La Vie they released) boxes to ship out so that takes time as well...but if you never got a tracking email, I'd definitely reach out sooner than later.

I am in this boat: have a tracking number but shows as still processing.

 

[cosmicevan]

I actually think it's a really really positive reaction. I also think that Armand's recent statements that he may never sell OGV for offsite again comes down to the same thing.

There's something wonderful about Zwanze Day - more people get to try a unique lambic every year than ever before. I've been going since 2011 and have gotten to try many awesome lambics that otherwise I would never have had access to.

I've gone on and on (and will go on and on in the future) about the supply and demand problems in craft beer (and how imperfect of a market this hobby is). Because supply is so much lower than demand, price needs to go up. But there's more than one way to modify price, and raw dollar amount is not the only tool that these brewers/blenders have. Ability to restrict how supply gets out is another way to solve the same problem - this way, JVR or Armand or whomever can charge a number that they don't find repugnant, and still ensure that secondary marketeers aren't profiting off of their hard work.

If a LOT more breweries began following this model (massively increasing on-site or otherwise restricted availability and eliminating secondary market opportunities), the benefits would be enormous. Right now, there is a "secondary supply" constraint in that so few opportunities exist for things like Zwanze Day that if you miss it, you miss potentially your only opportunity for a unique experience. But if top tier breweries did this kind of thing frequently, you'd miss many but enjoy many as well. Meanwhile, secondary marketeers would fade away as overall demand for unique experiences would be (more) satisfied by such events.

I love this.

Pliny the younger is another fine example of a successful DONG release that takes the model a bit further by not restricting things to a single day and moment. Even if brewers started all doing things like this regularly, I don't know if the secondary market will ever truly go away unless supply truly saturates such that people really just don't care about specific releases. The main problem is that with the internet, there is such a wide reach to consumers who not only don't mind the secondary market, but prefer it to putting in the legwork. Even ebay has slipped back into having beer sales. Search on cantillon or treehouse...there are many and they are selling.

 

[64vdub]

I think your already seeing things change on the secondary with prices of certain seasonals (Hommage, LPG, etc) falling because of the saturation in the market. Mostly due to the number of sellers (many new) on the secondary, but also due to the repetition and volume at which these beers are released because of ramped up production.

 

[nathanmiller]

Question: where did you read and/or hear that Armand will no longer sell OGV to go? Is that a response to reselling sites having it online almost immediately after OBD (and for a ridiculous mark up)?

On Monday of Open Beer Days, he said he was saddened by people coming in with their smartphones, looking at labels and prices online, not knowing anything about the gueuze inside, and buying simply to resell. He said that because of that he was considering OGV becoming an onsite-only thing.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

On Monday of Open Beer Days, he said he was saddened by people coming in with their smartphones, looking at labels and prices online, not knowing anything about the gueuze inside, and buying simply to resell. He said that because of that he was considering OGV becoming an onsite-only thing.

Wow, what a shame. I hope that's not the case but it's certainly understandable.

Armand is a kind and charming guy, as well as a great host. I'll take any chance I can to get back and drink more of his beers at the O-droom.

Really kicking myself for not grabbing more pate to bring home. It set off bells and whistles at every security stop along the way but in the end came through just fine. Too damn good to only have one tin of it

 

[stupac2]

http://www.belgiansmaak.com/jean-van-roy-brasserie-cantillon/

Jean goes on a rant. Really well worth a listen, open a bottle and sit back

Finally got a chance to listen to it, and one thing that jumped out at me was his vitriol for the "fake lambic producers" in HORALS, and how he'd only join if they left. Which is funny, because I've heard people in the Belgian lambic world go on rants about how he's making ******** fake lambic. It seems kind of odd to be upset about that while making Lou Pepe every year, but maybe it's more about the history of those places not supporting lambic during the hard times, instead de facto "selling out"? If it's that, he didn't really make it clear, but I got the feeling that he has some trouble expressing these things on the fly in English.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

Finally got a chance to listen to it, and one thing that jumped out at me was his vitriol for the "fake lambic producers" in HORALS, and how he'd only join if they left. Which is funny, because I've heard people in the Belgian lambic world go on rants about how he's making ******** fake lambic. It seems kind of odd to be upset about that while making Lou Pepe every year, but maybe it's more about the history of those places not supporting lambic during the hard times, instead de facto "selling out"? If it's that, he didn't really make it clear, but I got the feeling that he has some trouble expressing these things on the fly in English.

Interesting take. I understood him to mean sweetened lambic (and lambic made out of season) as "fake" lambic, not non traditional blending.