Lambic Discussion Thread

[The Red Viper]

Loosely related to above, I'm aware that lambic generally ages "well." I've had 14 year old lambic once and see plenty of great reviews of similar lambic from 98, 99, 00 range. I don't see too much older, let alone a lot older beyond a few trainwrecks (dontdrinkbeer's review of the 81 Belle Vue gueuze comes to mind). Is there a general consensus of how lambic can age beyond 15 years? I'm talking 25, 40, 50 years. Are you going to have more luck with Cantillon vs. some of the lesser gueuzeries (is that word?)?

I'm not a veteran at drinking super old lambic or anything but my guess is it's hard to say partly because there is so little lambic older than 10-15 yrs where the storage conditions can even be accurately accounted for, much less where you can be assured those conditions were really appropriate for long term aging. The older bottles that are out there seem mostly to be crapshoots in this sense. In other words I would imagine the sample size of bottles that are this old, that were high quality to begin with, and that have been properly stored is too small to draw any clear conclusions. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Rowingbrewer1]

Loosely related to above, I'm aware that lambic generally ages "well." I've had 14 year old lambic once and see plenty of great reviews of similar lambic from 98, 99, 00 range. I don't see too much older, let alone a lot older beyond a few trainwrecks (dontdrinkbeer's review of the 81 Belle Vue gueuze comes to mind). Is there a general consensus of how lambic can age beyond 15 years? I'm talking 25, 40, 50 years. Are you going to have more luck with Cantillon vs. some of the lesser gueuzeries (is that word?)?

http://drinkbelgianbeer.com/breweries/1975-cantillon-kriek

 

[Quatz]

The only old bottle I've ever had was a Mort Subite Gueuze with a best by date of 1996. Wasn't horrible, wasn't great. No off flavors but the sourness was a bit overwhelming. I can imagine higher quality geuzes have a better chance of aging well but as I understand it, it's always a gamble.

 

[LukeAleTime]

http://drinkbelgianbeer.com/breweries/1975-cantillon-kriek

Dat full pour

 

[stupac2]

Loosely related to above, I'm aware that lambic generally ages "well." I've had 14 year old lambic once and see plenty of great reviews of similar lambic from 98, 99, 00 range. I don't see too much older, let alone a lot older beyond a few trainwrecks (dontdrinkbeer's review of the 81 Belle Vue gueuze comes to mind). Is there a general consensus of how lambic can age beyond 15 years? I'm talking 25, 40, 50 years. Are you going to have more luck with Cantillon vs. some of the lesser gueuzeries (is that word?)?

I had a Hanssens from the 70's that was great, a 1982 Cantillon Framboise that was just okay, as well as some mid-90's Hanssens and Cantillon that's been good. I think that you can get good results after 25+ years, but it starts to get more and more random as you get older, even with good storage conditions. At the same time, even if you get something that's not gross, it's probably not at its best. I think 20 years is approaching the sensible maximum for lambic, and anything older is largely novelty.

 

[jimmyr78]

gueuzeries (is that word?)?

I think the correct term is "Gozer"

 

[andrewdrinks]

Do you guys know when LPK, LPF, and Vigneronne are usually released at Cantillon?

LPK has been and gone for the year, unless there's a stash hiding in the cellar - was on sale through the autumn.
LPF I haven't seen, and I've been there about once a month since September. Either it's yet to come or I missed it. (LPG is still on sale, so perhaps when that's all gone, LPF will appear)
Vigneronne is currently sitting in the cellars in the brewery while they work out what to do with it - it would normally go on sale in January, but this years batch has some serious carbonation problems, with bottles varying from slight fizz to pancake flat. Will be interesting to see what happens with it.

 

[Rowingbrewer1]

Vigneronne is currently sitting in the cellars in the brewery while they work out what to do with it - it would normally go on sale in January, but this years batch has some serious carbonation problems, with bottles varying from slight fizz to pancake flat. Will be interesting to see what happens with it.

I think as someone mentioned before they should just give it a special loreik label, maybe include two concubines, one fanning the lazy boy, while the other feeds him white grapes. and then send half of it to me for the awesome idea.

 

[andrewdrinks]

I'm on board. Alternatively sell it all through the brewery repackaged into bag-in-a-box so local wannabe blendmasters can get their kicks mixing it with homebrew.

 

[Rowingbrewer1]

I'm on board. Alternatively sell it all through the brewery repackaged into bag-in-a-box so local wannabe blendmasters can get their kicks mixing it with homebrew.

no reason you can't pop a few bottles in order to blend

 

[tripsforjoe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Vigneronne squared.

 

[cosmicevan]

i participated in drinking one of those 2 1959 lambics and all i can tell you was that it was peel the enamel off your teeth sour. i can dig up my notes if you want, but that was likely after a full 8 bottle BA DL tasting.

 

[matedog]

I had a Hanssens from the 70's that was great, a 1982 Cantillon Framboise that was just okay, as well as some mid-90's Hanssens and Cantillon that's been good. I think that you can get good results after 25+ years, but it starts to get more and more random as you get older, even with good storage conditions. At the same time, even if you get something that's not gross, it's probably not at its best. I think 20 years is approaching the sensible maximum for lambic, and anything older is largely novelty.

I guess I was basically looking for first hand reports that there are some very old lambics that are still in good shape, so thank you.

Lambic appears to be unique relative to other beers people like to "extreme age" (quads, old ales) in that oxidation seems to be less inevitable or at least play a different role.

 

[owens99]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Vigneronne squared.

 

[cfh64]

I think I read somewhere in this thread that it's advisable to take the foil off of the corks if aging for a long time. I assume to prevent mold build up? If so, is it really that much or a problem and does it affect trade value? Or was it complete horse **** and I'm a fool? The last part of that question is rhetorical.

 

[ASUBeer]

LPK has been and gone for the year, unless there's a stash hiding in the cellar - was on sale through the autumn.
LPF I haven't seen, and I've been there about once a month since September. Either it's yet to come or I missed it. (LPG is still on sale, so perhaps when that's all gone, LPF will appear)
Vigneronne is currently sitting in the cellars in the brewery while they work out what to do with it - it would normally go on sale in January, but this years batch has some serious carbonation problems, with bottles varying from slight fizz to pancake flat. Will be interesting to see what happens with it.

I'd drink flat Vignerrone all day long. I bet that would be an amazing beer with a nice outdoor dinner.

 

[stupac2]

I think I read somewhere in this thread that it's advisable to take the foil off of the corks if aging for a long time. I assume to prevent mold build up? If so, is it really that much or a problem and does it affect trade value? Or was it complete horse **** and I'm a fool? The last part of that question is rhetorical.

It's to prevent the cap from rusting. Shouldn't affect trade value, I would think.

I guess I was basically looking for first hand reports that there are some very old lambics that are still in good shape, so thank you.

Lambic appears to be unique relative to other beers people like to "extreme age" (quads, old ales) in that oxidation seems to be less inevitable or at least play a different role.

Oxidation is mostly different. The reason why that Eylenbosch that DDB reviewed was so bad is that it was a lambic with overly oxidized malts. That's a combination of flavors that's really hard to like (though I'm sure jedwards could find a way!). I think that as long as there's some kind of healthy microbiota in there that nasty oxidation is less likely, and lower residual sugar probably helps (another reason I think those Eylenbosch beers were bad, they seemed to have a lot of sugar left). But either way the longer it goes the more likely gross oxidation is.

 

[Pneill3161]

My take on the eylenbosch's are there are some that are sweetened (one with labels) and unsweetened ones (no label just plastic wrap around cork. The unsweetened '84 I had was very different with a good amount of oxidation, but tasted very good still.

 

[RyanG1]

Horal Mega Blend, hard to trade for domestically?

Edit: Question answered, thanks.

 

[LukeAleTime]

Horal Mega Blend, hard to trade for domestically?

Edit: Question answered, thanks.

Curious to know what the answer was. I would've thought that it's not one that people cram boxes full of from Belgium, but rather people grab one or two in an order to drink themselves - so hard to trade for because it's not super sought after (if that makes sense?)

 

[mjohnson171]

I'll also chime in on the Eylenbosch. I opened an 84 a few months ago (unlabeled, with the Plastic wrapped cork) and it was fantastic given its age and the likelihood of tasting like ****. Did it taste better than fresh lambic? Or some 5-8 years old, no. But for its age it held up very well. Given the chance I would go after another bottle of that vintage, although at that age bottles really are a crapshoot.

 

[RyanG1]

Curious to know what the answer was. I would've thought that it's not one that people cram boxes full of from Belgium, but rather people grab one or two in an order to drink themselves - so hard to trade for because it's not super sought after (if that makes sense?)

Similar reply. And shouldn't be to difficult to track down for a trade. Best with 2 to 3 years on it . Just been wanting to try It.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Horal Mega Blend, hard to trade for domestically?

Edit: Question answered, thanks.

Can get you as many of those as you want from each vintage easily.

 

[davey101]

Well that was fast. It somehow survived these crazy temperatures!

3 x 2014 3F, 3 x 2013 3F, 2 x 2013 Bio, 6 x 2014 Bio

Only issue was a 2014 3F that lost maybe half an oz, so into the fridge it goes

/already ordered some B1 Tilquinnns!

 

[RyanG1]

Can get you as many of those as you want from each vintage easily.

Awesome. Thank you sir. Will ping you.

 

[BusinessSloth]

Awesome. Thank you sir. Will ping you.

If you don't work something out with Adam, hit me up and I got you

 

[davey101]

Anyone know how the Girardin dating goes? Got some 2011 corks. Read somewhere that was the sell by and it's three years out? Or is 2011 the vintage?

 

[RyanG1]

If you don't work something out with Adam, hit me up and I got you

Thanks, amigo.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Anyone know how the Girardin dating goes? Got some 2011 corks. Read somewhere that was the sell by and it's three years out? Or is 2011 the vintage?

The bottles are not dated; however, beginning in the mid 2000's the corks began to show bottling batch numbers. For example Ax2013 is commonly referred to as a 2013 batch. However, bottling batch numbers should only be used as a reference and may not necessarily indicate the bottling year as certain batches have arrived on store shelves prior to the year marked (e.g., Ax2013 arrived on store shelves in the United States in late-2012).

 

[davey101]

Haha, I literally just read that. Figured I'd check out your site for an answer