Lambic Discussion Thread

[RyanG1]

Bay Area TBers, do we ever get any De Cam? I don't think I've ever seen it, but I haven't ever looked for it.

In an alternate universe it exists at Trappist Provisions and they sell it for $112.34.

 

[matedog]

Not that I've ever seen.

Any idea what their distribution situation is? They don't produce much do they? And how much of it gets to the US?

 

[stupac2]

Any idea what their distribution situation is? They don't produce much do they? And how much of it gets to the US?

I don't think very much comes to the US, but since diddly-poop comes here I've never paid much attention. I know other places get it sporadically.

 

[Envelopes]

Vanberg & DeWulf has begun importing their Oude Lambiek as of last summer. Limited numbers and from what I've seen about $40/750ml. As far as I know that's the only De Cam imported.

 

[drgarage1]

Vanberg & DeWulf has begun importing their Oude Lambiek as of last summer. Limited numbers and from what I've seen about $40/750ml. As far as I know that's the only De Cam imported.

Which is the weirdest one to import, given the general appeal of still lambic. I think I saw it on the shelf for $35 in Atlanta when I was visiting.

 

[ridglens]

question:

Does anyone have a feel for sort of relative, year-to-year numbers on geuze production from 3F and Cantillon (maybe a few others)?

I know Cantillon is all the rage/harder to find, but am wondering if its just demand or supply or both. I'm assuming 3F makes a **** ton more since they seem to have a larger operation, but i honestly have no idea!

 

[Envelopes]

Has anyone seen 2013/2014 neck Tilquin around? The 2012/2013 all dried up around here and I haven't seen any since. One shop I spoke to said 12% (the importer) has been out of stock for a while. I assumed they were just waiting on the new batch which I see was added to Etre a few weeks ago.

 

[Envelopes]

question:

Does anyone have a feel for sort of relative, year-to-year numbers on geuze production from 3F and Cantillon (maybe a few others)?

I know Cantillon is all the rage/harder to find, but am wondering if its just demand or supply or both. I'm assuming 3F makes a **** ton more since they seem to have a larger operation, but i honestly have no idea!

Someone on the other site says Cantillon is ~1,500 barrels a year.

This article says that 3F lost 50,000 liters in 2009 which is widely reported as 1/3rd of their annual production, so that would put them at ~1,100 barrels a year (in 2009, at least).

And just since there was talk of them recently: according to this article, De Cam only makes ~128 barrels a year!

 

[drgarage1]

Someone on the other site says Cantillon is ~1,500 barrels a year.

This article says that 3F lost 50,000 liters in 2009 which is widely reported as 1/3rd of their annual production, so that would put them at ~1,100 barrels a year (in 2009, at least).

And just since there was talk of them recently: according to this article, De Cam only makes ~128 barrels a year!

I think it seems like 3F makes so much more geuze than Cantillon because they probably do. They make a lot fewer variants on a regular basis. It's pretty much geuze and kriek on a regular basis, then occasionally Golden Blend, the seasons, Hommage ever 5 years, Framboos every 11... A pretty big difference from Cantillon geuze, kriek, rose, LPG, LPK, LPF, Vignerrone, Saint Lamvinus, Fou Foune, Mamouche, Cuvee St. Gilloise, and Bruocsella Grand Cru. That's a lot more beers to make with not much more base lambic to go around...

 

[stupac2]

Also Armand mostly blends other people's lambics, rather than brewing his own. I don't know, but it wouldn't be too surprising to me if the number quoted as destroyed was the stuff he was brewing.

 

[ridglens]

I think it seems like 3F makes so much more geuze than Cantillon because they probably do. They make a lot fewer variants on a regular basis. It's pretty much geuze and kriek on a regular basis, then occasionally Golden Blend, the seasons, Hommage ever 5 years, Framboos every 11... A pretty big difference from Cantillon geuze, kriek, rose, LPG, LPK, LPF, Vignerrone, Saint Lamvinus, Fou Foune, Mamouche, Cuvee St. Gilloise, and Bruocsella Grand Cru. That's a lot more beers to make with not much more base lambic to go around...

This makes a lot of sense. I also wonder on the proportion of 3F vs Cantillon that is actually distributed to the states/made available on-line...

I'm a bit surprised that Cantillon makes more beer, as it's exponentially harder to find (at least for me, at least for now).... but I guess it makes sense with hype/demand and possibly distribution issues, plus the fact that Jean is trying to save some 30K bottles in his bomb shelter #wouldtradeleftnutforkey. Cantillon wasn't exactly hard to find 4-5 years ago, either, i remember balking at the price so many times to "save money for Dark Lord"....

 

[ridglens]

Also Armand mostly blends other people's lambics, rather than brewing his own. I don't know, but it wouldn't be too surprising to me if the number quoted as destroyed was the stuff he was brewing.

Good possibility, too. Did i read somewhere he only brews something like 1/3 of the lambic he blends?

 

[mrk_d]

Cantillon wasn't exactly hard to find 4-5 years ago, either, i remember balking at the price so many times to "save money for Dark Lord"....

 

[stupac2]

Good possibility, too. Did i read somewhere he only brews something like 1/3 of the lambic he blends?

I have no idea. Besides the Armand'4 series I don't know of anything he has brewed himself.

 

[mrk_d]

I have no idea. Besides the Armand'4 series I don't know of anything he has brewed himself.

A&T uses some Armand-brewed lambic, at least according to Ratebeer (so who knows...): http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/3-fonteinen-oude-geuze-armand-tommy/173481/

 

[SeaWatchman]

I have no idea. Besides the Armand'4 series I don't know of anything he has brewed himself.

4yr Lambiek, A'4, A/T, presumably some of his gueuze bottlings between 1999 and 2009.

 

[ridglens]

I know man... you don't have to rub it in. I remember leaving cases of Iris on the shelf for $16, and Lamvinus all day for $30. And thinking "I don't know what a goo-eh-ooze is, but for $12 i'll buy Dreadnaught IPA"

**** me.

 

[ridglens]

I have no idea. Besides the Armand'4 series I don't know of anything he has brewed himself.

well ****, so he may "produce" a lot more beer than that 1100 bbls.

 

[tehzachatak]

I think it seems like 3F makes so much more geuze than Cantillon because they probably do. They make a lot fewer variants on a regular basis. It's pretty much geuze and kriek on a regular basis, then occasionally Golden Blend, the seasons, Hommage ever 5 years, Framboos every 11... A pretty big difference from Cantillon geuze, kriek, rose, LPG, LPK, LPF, Vignerrone, Saint Lamvinus, Fou Foune, Mamouche, Cuvee St. Gilloise, and Bruocsella Grand Cru. That's a lot more beers to make with not much more base lambic to go around...

I'm sure this is true. The Cantillon website says they make 50% gueuze, and I would assume 3F is much more like 75%+, based on what I see around...

I am nevertheless always seriously surprised at how LITTLE Cantillon gueuze I see relative to the other stuff. In the US, I rarely see bottles of gueuze, even relative to the fruited stuff. I have bought something like a dozen bottles of Cantillon off the shelf in the US in the past 6 months, and only three bottles were gueuze.

I guess I do see Classic on bottle lists at bars more frequently than anything else... And kegs, occasionally, which I've never seen of any other Loon except on Zwanze day.

 

[stupac2]

4yr Lambiek, A'4, A/T, presumably some of his gueuze bottlings between 1999 and 2009.

Has he completely stopped? I thought he was going to try again after Mikkel/Jeppe bailed him out.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Currently, Michael Blancquaert is working with Armand as an apprentice and has agreed to buy 50% of the brewery’s shares by 2017. After a four year brewing hiatus to regroup and get the necessary equipment, 3F is brewing their own lambic again, but it's unclear if any of it has gone into blends yet (I would guess not).

 

[stupac2]

Currently, Michael Blancquaert is working with Armand as an apprentice and has agreed to buy 50% of the brewery’s shares by 2017. After a four year brewing hiatus to regroup and get the necessary equipment, 3F is brewing their own lambic again, but it's unclear if any of it has gone into blends yet (I would guess not).

Is that guy someone we should know from somewhere?

 

[boogercrack]

looks young.

 

[ridglens]

looks young.

Think he'd be interested in my wife?

 

[GetchaPull]

looks young.

He is a really nice guy. Very willing to talk to people in the bottleshop or over a pour at the picnic tables.

He shared a beer-by-beer story with me where he and Armand just decided to tear into the cellar one random night (around the '4 releases), killing any bottle imaginable. Ghost whales for fun.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Ghost whales are stupid.

FTFY

 

[SeaWatchman]

Proof (not that many care or were looking) that like Fou'Foune, Lou Pepe Gueuze was once sold in Japan. I've only ever seen/heard of regular gueuze/Kriek and FF being there. I've also just been shown a LPK label that has the same sticker on it, so that's cool to know as well.

Does anyone know what it says?

 

[GetchaPull]

Does anyone know what it says?

All your lambics are belong to us?

 

[stupac2]

Proof (not that many care or were looking) that like Fou'Foune, Lou Pepe Gueuze was once sold in Japan. I've only ever seen/heard of regular gueuze/Kriek and FF being there. I've also just been shown a LPK label that has the same sticker on it, so that's cool to know as well.

Does anyone know what it says?

There's an LPK label that's something completely different:

Based on what bensw has said it's just some kind of tax information, I guess Japan taxes booze based on the kinds of grain it has, or something.

 

[SeaWatchman]

There's an LPK label that's something completely different:

Based on what bensw has said it's just some kind of tax information, I guess Japan taxes booze based on the kinds of grain it has, or something.

On the tax thing, that's true, as well as % of grain in the bill. That's why rice lagers are so common too. Cool pic of the LPK!