Lambic Discussion Thread

[Bill2]

Opened up this '94 with the OG label recently, no oxidation to speak of, which makes me wonder how long this could have gone. The cap was in excellent condition, no rust (had foil on it for 19 years), and the cork was super chill and just let us yank it out in one piece, no gushing .

The nose was straight prime time JVR rustic Loon terroir, and shocking amounts of raspberry. It had enamel stripping sourness, which was to be expected, but the raspberries provided a nice level of complexity beyond the raw sourness and funk.

This was a seriously excellent (9.5-7/10) treat enjoyed in a transcendentally magical house (The Sitting Room @ Kuhnhenn's).

 

[matedog]

Opened up this '94 with the OG label recently, no oxidation to speak of, which makes me wonder how long this could have gone. The cap was in excellent condition, no rust (had foil on it for 19 years), and the cork was super chill and just let us yank it out in one piece, no gushing .

The nose was straight prime time JVR rustic Loon terroir, and shocking amounts of raspberry. It had enamel stripping sourness, which was to be expected, but the raspberries provided a nice level of complexity beyond the raw sourness and funk.

This was a seriously excellent (9.5-7/10) treat enjoyed in a transcendentally magical house (The Sitting Room @ Kuhnhenn's).

Isn't Rose normally redder? Or is that just the kriek?

 

[Bill2]

Isn't Rose normally redder? Or is that just the kriek?

The raspberries give a bright redness to young RDG, but as it ages the color fades out. Krieks tend to stay red much much much longer.

 

[SeaWatchman]

The nose was straight prime time JVR rustic Loon terroir

Except really it's primetime JPVR rustic Loon terroir.

 

[stupac2]

Opened up this '94 with the OG label recently, no oxidation to speak of, which makes me wonder how long this could have gone. The cap was in excellent condition, no rust (had foil on it for 19 years), and the cork was super chill and just let us yank it out in one piece, no gushing .

The nose was straight prime time JVR rustic Loon terroir, and shocking amounts of raspberry. It had enamel stripping sourness, which was to be expected, but the raspberries provided a nice level of complexity beyond the raw sourness and funk.

This was a seriously excellent (9.5-7/10) treat enjoyed in a transcendentally magical house (The Sitting Room @ Kuhnhenn's).

Last time I was at Cantillon JPVR was ranting about having to put the dress on the woman in order to send the bottles into the US, and how it actually made it look dirtier. I hadn't really seen the label before, but I think he's totally right, it does look dirtier with her clothed...

 

[Michigan1]

"Terroir"

 

[Danimal1]

Opened up this '94 with the OG label recently, no oxidation to speak of, which makes me wonder how long this could have gone. The cap was in excellent condition, no rust (had foil on it for 19 years), and the cork was super chill and just let us yank it out in one piece, no gushing .

The nose was straight prime time JVR rustic Loon terroir, and shocking amounts of raspberry. It had enamel stripping sourness, which was to be expected, but the raspberries provided a nice level of complexity beyond the raw sourness and funk.

This was a seriously excellent (9.5-7/10) treat enjoyed in a transcendentally magical house (The Sitting Room @ Kuhnhenn's).

Im guessing you dinged it .5-.3 points for lack of tits on the label?

 

[ridglens]

Im guessing you dinged it .5-.3 points for lack of tits on the label?

Ding left man....

 

[mrk_d]

Pretty cool article on wheat/barley proportion in lambic over time:

https://translate.google.com/transl...21/een-eeuwenoude-verhouding-tarwe/&edit-text

 

[stupac2]

Anyone know what the deal with this beer is?

It's from Akkurat, and other people checking into it have just checked into the Schaerbeekse 2010 entry, so my guess is that's where to put it, but I figure someone here would know the deal.

 

[Pneill3161]

Anyone know what the deal with this beer is?

It's from Akkurat, and other people checking into it have just checked into the Schaerbeekse 2010 entry, so my guess is that's where to put it, but I figure someone here would know the deal.

I remember these on BiaB for a while about a year ago. Said it was just regular Oude kriek with schaerbeekse cherries, but not sure what's the difference between this and the regular schaerbeekse.

 

[Jonada]

I remember these on BiaB for a while about a year ago. Said it was just regular Oude kriek with schaerbeekse cherries, but not sure what's the difference between this and the regular schaerbeekse.

Amount of cherries used maybe?

 

[SeaWatchman]

Anyone know what the deal with this beer is?

It's from Akkurat, and other people checking into it have just checked into the Schaerbeekse 2010 entry, so my guess is that's where to put it, but I figure someone here would know the deal.

It's just the euro version of the Schaerbeekse Kriek label. No difference between that and the Schaerbeekse we get here in the states apart from that.

What is really interesting is that back when 3F was using the yellow label for (Oude) Kriek (2004 and earlier) they described both as young lambic with 100% Schaerbeekse cherries added and didn't mention the ratio of cherries added to the lambic. Newer bottlings of Schaerbeekse post-yellow label mention the 35% cherries added where as Intense Red is 40% cherries added. So you can probably assume that (Oude) Kriek has a smaller fruit:lambic ratio but likely still uses Schaerbeekse cherries. It seems for special fruited lambic that they're always looking to hit the 35% ratio given that Hommage is 30% raspberries and 5% cherries.

Armand is the master of marketing aferall...

 

[mrk_d]

So here's something I've been wondering for a while - how do you guys decide what to age vs. what to drink relatively fresh when it comes to different lambics? Is there some sort of rule of thumb for the various brewers/blenders you can share if you've had the opportunity to try a number of various vintages or the same beers?

Pretty much every time I get a nice bottle I wonder if I should age or drink it, and usually I don't have much of a shot at getting multiples. I suppose bottle variation and personal preference play a pretty big role, but perhaps there are some distinct characteristics that determine what will develop well (e.g. Loerik from what I hear) vs. what will drop off or not gain anything with age.

 

[stupac2]

So here's something I've been wondering for a while - how do you guys decide what to age vs. what to drink relatively fresh when it comes to different lambics? Is there some sort of rule of thumb for the various brewers/blenders you can share if you've had the opportunity to try a number of various vintages or the same beers?

Pretty much every time I get a nice bottle I wonder if I should age or drink it, and usually I don't have much of a shot at getting multiples. I suppose bottle variation and personal preference play a pretty big role, but perhaps there are some distinct characteristics that determine what will develop well (e.g. Loerik from what I hear) vs. what will drop off or not gain anything with age.

The easiest answer is to pretty much never age something that you'll only get one of.

Any other answer is just a guess, and unless we know a lot more about what you prefer it's going to be really hard to make that guess anything other than a blind shot in the dark. People disagree about this stuff a lot, I've heard someone say that they hate Fou Foune with <2 years on it, whereas I think aging Fou at all is madness. Some people like aged LPF, I think it's largely a waste. I've heard people say that LPG isn't worth aging but I love old LPG. Etc etc.

Compounding this is that aging gueuze isn't really a science, since you're depending on the bugs to keep doing stuff to change the flavors (I think, anyway). That's inherently pretty unpredictable. Fruit lambic you at least know that fruit tends to fade, but some don't seem to fade as much. LPK is pretty solid with age, but regular Cantillon kriek turns into a ridiculous warhead. Cantillon's grape lambics seem to hold up pretty well, but I don't really know if aging makes them any more interesting. Hommage b1 held up for a while, so b2 probably will too, but will it get better? I dunno.

So it's complicated.

 

[mrk_d]

The easiest answer is to pretty much never age something that you'll only get one of.

Any other answer is just a guess, and unless we know a lot more about what you prefer it's going to be really hard to make that guess anything other than a blind shot in the dark. People disagree about this stuff a lot, I've heard someone say that they hate Fou Foune with <2 years on it, whereas I think aging Fou at all is madness. Some people like aged LPF, I think it's largely a waste. I've heard people say that LPG isn't worth aging but I love old LPG. Etc etc.

Compounding this is that aging gueuze isn't really a science, since you're depending on the bugs to keep doing stuff to change the flavors (I think, anyway). That's inherently pretty unpredictable. Fruit lambic you at least know that fruit tends to fade, but some don't seem to fade as much. LPK is pretty solid with age, but regular Cantillon kriek turns into a ridiculous warhead. Cantillon's grape lambics seem to hold up pretty well, but I don't really know if aging makes them any more interesting. Hommage b1 held up for a while, so b2 probably will too, but will it get better? I dunno.

So it's complicated.

Figured that would be the case - I guess I'll stick to aging stuff that the cognoscenti have identified as good candidates (LPG, GCB, Cantillon Classic, 3F OG, etc.) and drink everything else as I get it.

 

[Rowingbrewer1]

Iris is pretty amazing with age

 

[stupac2]

Random question, anyone in good with Armand or someone else at 3F? I've been trying to get decent-quality images of their labels for ages without any luck. Many of the newer ones are around, but the older stuff (or the stuff that wasn't ever imported into the US) just doesn't exist. I hate using pictures for image uploads on Untappd, it looks so wrong.

 

[Michigan1]

Random question, anyone in good with Armand or someone else at 3F? I've been trying to get decent-quality images of their labels for ages without any luck. Many of the newer ones are around, but the older stuff (or the stuff that wasn't ever imported into the US) just doesn't exist. I hate using pictures for image uploads on Untappd, it looks so wrong.

I'm watching you...

 

[stupac2]

I'm watching you...

I have a label for 1999 framboos. If I wanted to **** **** up I don't think I'd need to beg publicly.

 

[tehzachatak]

What's the difference between Kriek Lambiek De Cam and De Cam Oude Kriek?

 

[ASUBeer]

What's the difference between Kriek Lambiek De Cam and De Cam Oude Kriek?

I'm not 100% sure but they are different beers. Their Oude Kriek is still the best Kriek I've ever had (2005 vintage).

I'm guessing the Oude Kriek might be a better barrel of lambic or batch of cherries.

 

[tehzachatak]

I'm not 100% sure but they are different beers. Their Oude Kriek is still the best Kriek I've ever had (2005 vintage).

I'm guessing the Oude Kriek might be a better barrel of lambic or batch of cherries.

Yeah, the reviews make it seem like the Oude Kriek is a definitely superior beer.

 

[PurityControl88]

Figured that would be the case - I guess I'll stick to aging stuff that the cognoscenti have identified as good candidates (LPG, GCB, Cantillon Classic, 3F OG, etc.) and drink everything else as I get it.

http://drinkbelgianbeer.com/breweries/1975-cantillon-kriek
Thought this might be of interest.

 

[matedog]

http://drinkbelgianbeer.com/breweries/1975-cantillon-kriek
Thought this might be of interest.

So, the general consensus states that fruit flavors in lambic fade over time. I've seen a lot of vintage lambic reviews of kriek and framboise that state that fruit is still very much present. Is it possible that this consensus is erroneous?

 

[stupac2]

So, the general consensus states that fruit flavors in lambic fade over time. I've seen a lot of vintage lambic reviews of kriek and framboise that state that fruit is still very much present. Is it possible that this consensus is erroneous?

No. Fruit fades, it's just a matter of how much. Even the 30-year-old Cantillon Framboise I had still had some perceptible fruit in it, but it was far less than you'd get in a fresh Rose de Gambrinus. (I'm assuming the recipe stayed roughly constant across time, which I think is fair.) Some fruits fade quickly, I think Fou has faded noticeably after a few months. This will also vary with palates, depending on how sensitive you are to various things you might not perceive beer as fading as much.

 

[callmemickey]

What's the difference between Kriek Lambiek De Cam and De Cam Oude Kriek?

The Kriek Lambiek is unblended, the Oude Kriek is a traditional Kriek.

 

[CypherEnigma]

What's the difference between Kriek Lambiek De Cam and De Cam Oude Kriek?

The terms "Oude Geuze" and "Oude Kriek" are European European Union 'TSG' (Traditional Speciality Guaranteed) designations as well.

 

[tehzachatak]

The Kriek Lambiek is unblended, the Oude Kriek is a traditional Kriek.

Sweet. Thanks man!

The terms "Oude Geuze" and "Oude Kriek" are European European Union 'TSG' (Traditional Speciality Guaranteed) designations as well.

Yeah, I knew this, and I guess I could have stated I knew this. But that still left me curious about what the difference in Kriek Lambiek was!

 

[LukeAleTime]

The Kriek Lambiek is unblended, the Oude Kriek is a traditional Kriek.

Aren't traditional kriek's unblended?