Lambic Discussion Thread

[stakem1]

Im gonna venture a guess that this has been in my cellar for bare minimum 6 years? The recent flood damage made me toss it in the fridge. This tastes exactly the same as Fantome bottles from the mid to late 90’s....

I know it has girardin lambic from 2010/11 in it but im uncertain of the rest of the details. I coulda swore it was a pilsner/lambic blend but in my searching 2 different resources claim its faro. The **** do I know...

 

[stupac2]

I disagree. Previously you could just buy individual bottles for their single costs. If you lump in other bottles that don't have high secondary rates and jack up the price of the box set you cut out the shitlordery. Someone that loves lambic is likely going to be just fine getting some shelf bottles to go along with their main beers.

...Why? If you can buy a bottle for 20 Euro and sell it for $500, it doesn't matter if you have to also pay 20 euro for a couple other bottles. As long as the total price of the package is well under the secondary price there will still be shitlordery, and it'll probably be roughly the same amount. And I highly doubt these to go prices are approaching the right number.

You can't stop shitlordery, youcan only hope to contain it.

Well, right, that's why I said "do anything". If it did "something" it would be containing it.

Really, there are only three ways to eliminate shitlordery with rare beer:
1) Make enough beer that the secondary price collapses.
2) Make it in-house only.
3) Charge roughly the same amount as secondary prices.

Anything else is just thumb-twiddlin'.

 

[rrryanc]

...Why? If you can buy a bottle for 20 Euro and sell it for $500, it doesn't matter if you have to also pay 20 euro for a couple other bottles. As long as the total price of the package is well under the secondary price there will still be shitlordery, and it'll probably be roughly the same amount. And I highly doubt these to go prices are approaching the right number.

Well, right, that's why I said "do anything". If it did "something" it would be containing it.

Really, there are only three ways to eliminate shitlordery with rare beer:
1) Make enough beer that the secondary price collapses.
2) Make it in-house only.
3) Charge roughly the same amount as secondary prices.

Anything else is just thumb-twiddlin'.

It's fun to watch places try different things that fail miserably though and then act completely befuddled when that happens.

 

[tylerk88]

...Why? If you can buy a bottle for 20 Euro and sell it for $500, it doesn't matter if you have to also pay 20 euro for a couple other bottles. As long as the total price of the package is well under the secondary price there will still be shitlordery, and it'll probably be roughly the same amount. And I highly doubt these to go prices are approaching the right number.

Well, right, that's why I said "do anything". If it did "something" it would be containing it.

Really, there are only three ways to eliminate shitlordery with rare beer:
1) Make enough beer that the secondary price collapses.
2) Make it in-house only.
3) Charge roughly the same amount as secondary prices.

Anything else is just thumb-twiddlin'.

i also think that releasing randomly helps curtail some of the shitlordery. i'm not saying cantillon's approach is necessarily working, but not announcing releases means that the people who are showing up anyway can sometimes luck into something limited.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Beligan Beer Barn or those other sketchy websites will be more then happy to buy other bottles and sell them at jacked up prices in addition to the rare bottles at 500% markup. And some idiot will buy them.

They blocked the Lambic.Info instagram account because I kept commenting on how ****** they were. Would absolutely love to know who runs it.

To add some context to the OBD discussion: The current idea (and this could change) is that 3F won't be announcing what is in the predetermined packs that are for purchase, and that there are a definite set number of packages that will be available in total and (I think) by day. I definitely agree with this decision. Will it 100% stop all of the muling and resales? Absolutely not, but it is a step in the right direction IMO. I think it would certainly be better if the "open" part of Open Beer Days meant open bottles and only regulars like OG/AG/OK were available to go and the rest of the special bottles were opened on-site, but a business needs to make money too and they're not going to sell nearly as much if they're not offering anything to go.

Really, there are only three ways to eliminate shitlordery with rare beer:
1) Make enough beer that the secondary price collapses.
2) Make it in-house only.
3) Charge roughly the same amount as secondary prices.

Anything else is just thumb-twiddlin'.

1) Secondary prices have been plummeting, particularly in lambic. This is a good thing. Thanks, pastry stouts and hazy IPAs! Barleywine still sucks.

2) Yes.

3) Never going to happen.

Anyhow, here is some lambic I drank with jedwards. He came over to do some hiking in Glacier and I let him pull whatever he wanted to from the cellar. Only had time for two bottles, sadly

08 OGV 375 - This continues to shine as the pinnacle of 3 Fonteinen blends for me with a great grass/hay nose, a perfect burnt orange color, and head retention for days. One could pick this out as a 3F bottle blind over just about anything. Taste was quite earthy with notes of citrus, damp grass, toasted biscuit, and all around very mellow. This blend is good to go for ages.

04 Vigneronne - The 2004 Vigneronne was made with Chasselas grapes rather than the standard white Muscat variety typically used. We both remarked that this beer had certainly attained the typical “old Cantillon” taste, but it’s always hard to pinpoint exactly what that is as it’s expressed differently in each varietal. Often times older Vigneronne can come out as quite sour, but this one maintained a great balance between being fruit forward and funky with just a light hint of acidity and an earthy/mineral/slate like notes. This was quite dry and not at all unlike a white wine as it was only lightly carved. We were both surprised that the cork came out completely intact and in such perfect shape with no black “gunk” under the cap and no saturation or any signs of having given up or affecting the beer adversely in 14 years.

 

[Marc2]

Secondary prices have been plummeting, particularly in lambic

I have been hearing this for a couple years now, I think people keep saying it hoping it comes true.

 

[Gonzoillini1]

I have been hearing this for a couple years now, I think people keep saying it hoping it comes true.

I don't follow the secondary market for lambic outside of what I see in a few FB groups, but this is certainly the case in the mead world. I very much agree with SeaWatchman that this is a great thing for folks who actually enjoy these things (be it Lambic / Mead / old Fantome / old English beers / etc...) as it pulls the speculators / flippers out of the market.

I wish more folks liks us (meaning TalkBeer / "Old Money" folks who have enjoyed these beers for a while and have a bit of disposable income) would stop buying anything on the secondary market as the demand is as much of a problem as the mules / flippers / etc...

Let the idiots spend hundred / thousands on Wakfield "rare" barrel aged stouts and Toppling Goliath nonsense...

 

[stupac2]

They blocked the Lambic.Info instagram account because I kept commenting on how ****** they were. Would absolutely love to know who runs it.

To add some context to the OBD discussion: The current idea (and this could change) is that 3F won't be announcing what is in the predetermined packs that are for purchase, and that there are a definite set number of packages that will be available in total and (I think) by day. I definitely agree with this decision. Will it 100% stop all of the muling and resales? Absolutely not, but it is a step in the right direction IMO. I think it would certainly be better if the "open" part of Open Beer Days meant open bottles and only regulars like OG/AG/OK were available to go and the rest of the special bottles were opened on-site, but a business needs to make money too and they're not going to sell nearly as much if they're not offering anything to go.



1) Secondary prices have been plummeting, particularly in lambic. This is a good thing. Thanks, pastry stouts and hazy IPAs! Barleywine still sucks.

2) Yes.

3) Never going to happen.

Anyhow, here is some lambic I drank with jedwards. He came over to do some hiking in Glacier and I let him pull whatever he wanted to from the cellar. Only had time for two bottles, sadly

08 OGV 375 - This continues to shine as the pinnacle of 3 Fonteinen blends for me with a great grass/hay nose, a perfect burnt orange color, and head retention for days. One could pick this out as a 3F bottle blind over just about anything. Taste was quite earthy with notes of citrus, damp grass, toasted biscuit, and all around very mellow. This blend is good to go for ages.

04 Vigneronne - The 2004 Vigneronne was made with Chasselas grapes rather than the standard white Muscat variety typically used. We both remarked that this beer had certainly attained the typical “old Cantillon” taste, but it’s always hard to pinpoint exactly what that is as it’s expressed differently in each varietal. Often times older Vigneronne can come out as quite sour, but this one maintained a great balance between being fruit forward and funky with just a light hint of acidity and an earthy/mineral/slate like notes. This was quite dry and not at all unlike a white wine as it was only lightly carved. We were both surprised that the cork came out completely intact and in such perfect shape with no black “gunk” under the cap and no saturation or any signs of having given up or affecting the beer adversely in 14 years.

Yeah, I agree with your take on it, the things I listed aren't really reasonable so you have to just do the best you can.

Also, you shouldn't see jedwards more than I do! I know Oakland is scary but it's a lot closer than Montana.

 

[beerscenes]

They blocked the Lambic.Info instagram account because I kept commenting on how ****** they were. Would absolutely love to know who runs it.

To add some context to the OBD discussion: The current idea (and this could change) is that 3F won't be announcing what is in the predetermined packs that are for purchase, and that there are a definite set number of packages that will be available in total and (I think) by day. I definitely agree with this decision. Will it 100% stop all of the muling and resales? Absolutely not, but it is a step in the right direction IMO. I think it would certainly be better if the "open" part of Open Beer Days meant open bottles and only regulars like OG/AG/OK were available to go and the rest of the special bottles were opened on-site, but a business needs to make money too and they're not going to sell nearly as much if they're not offering anything to go.



1) Secondary prices have been plummeting, particularly in lambic. This is a good thing. Thanks, pastry stouts and hazy IPAs! Barleywine still sucks.

2) Yes.

3) Never going to happen.

Anyhow, here is some lambic I drank with jedwards. He came over to do some hiking in Glacier and I let him pull whatever he wanted to from the cellar. Only had time for two bottles, sadly

08 OGV 375 - This continues to shine as the pinnacle of 3 Fonteinen blends for me with a great grass/hay nose, a perfect burnt orange color, and head retention for days. One could pick this out as a 3F bottle blind over just about anything. Taste was quite earthy with notes of citrus, damp grass, toasted biscuit, and all around very mellow. This blend is good to go for ages.

04 Vigneronne - The 2004 Vigneronne was made with Chasselas grapes rather than the standard white Muscat variety typically used. We both remarked that this beer had certainly attained the typical “old Cantillon” taste, but it’s always hard to pinpoint exactly what that is as it’s expressed differently in each varietal. Often times older Vigneronne can come out as quite sour, but this one maintained a great balance between being fruit forward and funky with just a light hint of acidity and an earthy/mineral/slate like notes. This was quite dry and not at all unlike a white wine as it was only lightly carved. We were both surprised that the cork came out completely intact and in such perfect shape with no black “gunk” under the cap and no saturation or any signs of having given up or affecting the beer adversely in 14 years.

I'm long overdue for a trip to Glacier.

 

[BelgianChris]

It's terrible to see this building in such an awful state
And soon they'll tear it apart to build appartments
Heritage should be preserved imo.

 

[SeaWatchman]

I'm long overdue for a trip to Glacier.

Don’t even think about showing up at my door with Funk Factory gear and expect to get lambic

 

[SeaWatchman]

This will be my only spammy post about the lambic raffle in this thread, but I just posted about the Nèfles. I am super excited to have this bottle in the raffle because there are definitely not very many of these floating around elsewhere and Jean from Moeder Lambic reached out to us about donating it. Flying home with and keeping this guy safe was nerve-wracking back in June.


(Link to media)

​

 

[SeaWatchman]

A few folks have been opening up a lot of Hanssens bottles lately in the group, so I thought I'd grab one of mine. This is an Oudbeitje from 2007 that my wife brought back from Cave à Bulles in Paris for me in June 2010. This is one of the oldest fruited lambics that I have in my cellar and also one of my favorites when it’s good. Fortunately this one isn’t too bad at all. There is still a huge nose of fresh strawberries, a sweet/funky combination, and zero head. The taste is trending towards towards sour but not in the enamel stripping sort of way you’d expect from a Hanssens this old. Beyond a slight lemon tartness, there is still a noticeable strawberry purée note, and a musty/earthy finish. All in all, I’m quite happy for an 11 year old Hanssens fruit lambic.

 

[mrk_d]

I'm having some friends over for a lambic-centric share tomorrow. I'd like to provide charcuterie/snacks to go with the beer but one couple is vegan. Any vegan, lambic-friendly, easy snack pairings you guys can think of?

 

[Compton25]

I'm having some friends over for a lambic-centric share tomorrow. I'd like to provide charcuterie/snacks to go with the beer but one couple is vegan. Any vegan, lambic-friendly, easy snack pairings you guys can think of?

Hummus is almost always vegan. I’d probably go for regular or a milder version as not to wreck the palate. Paired well with Mamouche at our last share for what it's worth.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

Jumping on the hanssens train. 2000 Oude Gueuze. Held up very well. The bottle opened with a much larger bang than I expected given its fill level and age. Deep musky funk and old cellar nose/palate. A bit acidic but nowhere near fresh bottlings and it was far from vinegary. A bit of leather and old oak to it, and frankly I think it could have aged even more without losing its quality. Overall a great beer and a bit surprising for 18 years old.

 

[mrk_d]

Hummus is almost always vegan. I’d probably go for regular or a milder version as not to wreck the palate. Paired well with Mamouche at our last share for what it's worth.

Good call, that should keep them happy!

 

[Digita7693]

Good call, that should keep them happy!

Add some fresh fruits with it too:
Figs, grapes, berries, and some carrots and celery for the hummus.

 

[andrewdrinks]

Maybe the 3F solution is to have a package that combines on-site drinking, merch and one interesting bottle to take away for $$$

 

[tosh1]

Random cellar pull for some dishwashing lambic.

Nice.

 

[Jonada]

Random cellar pull for some dishwashing lambic.

Nice.

I like where your head's at

Also SeaWatchman for the bottle log it looks like this is listed as a European bottling, but this one is a 12% imports

 

[SeaWatchman]

I like where your head's at

Also SeaWatchman for the bottle log it looks like this is listed as a European bottling, but this one is a 12% imports

Thanks! I’ll get this one uploaded today!

 

[BadJustin]

Random cellar pull for some dishwashing lambic.

Nice.

I'd like this but apparently I am a narc now

 

[MKtheGeneral]

I'd like this but apparently I am a narc now

 

[tosh1]

Grabbed some beers for dishwashing the other day, pulled three bottles in a row of 2012 3F. Guess that is a sign to drink one

 

[stakem1]

Local place got a shipment of tilquin in which includes geuze, quetsche and mure.

It got me thinking, and ****, I havent consumed anything by Tilquin in about 3 years. I think now is the time to remedy this. If bottles last until friday (lol who am i kidding) I might swing by and buy some.

But then I saw how much they are per bottle...
$27-30 per 375ml

Are you ******* serious clark?


And while im on the bitching and groaning spree about pricing. I think this is the first time I noticed the price flip flop of 3f OG now being more expensive than A&G. (per etre gourmet pricing)

 

[NClambicguy]

Local place got a shipment of tilquin in which includes geuze, quetsche and mure.

It got me thinking, and ****, I havent consumed anything by Tilquin in about 3 years. I think now is the time to remedy this. If bottles last until friday (lol who am i kidding) I might swing by and buy some.

But then I saw how much they are per bottle...
$27-30 per 375ml

Are you ******* serious clark?


And while im on the bitching and groaning spree about pricing. I think this is the first time I noticed the price flip flop of 3f OG now being more expensive than A&G. (per etre gourmet pricing)

I picked up some gueuze 375s last weekend for like $11. Mure 750s should also be priced around $30. The place you saw is gouging

 

[sjstraub]

Local place got a shipment of tilquin in which includes geuze, quetsche and mure.

But then I saw how much they are per bottle...
$27-30 per 375ml

Are you ******* serious clark

I picked up some gueuze 375s last weekend for like $11. Mure 750s should also be priced around $30. The place you saw is gouging

Pretty sure they were 17-20 in Milwaukee. Tends to sit at those prices.

 

[MikeG1]

Local place got a shipment of tilquin in which includes geuze, quetsche and mure.

It got me thinking, and ****, I havent consumed anything by Tilquin in about 3 years. I think now is the time to remedy this. If bottles last until friday (lol who am i kidding) I might swing by and buy some.

But then I saw how much they are per bottle...
$27-30 per 375ml

Are you ******* serious clark?


And while im on the bitching and groaning spree about pricing. I think this is the first time I noticed the price flip flop of 3f OG now being more expensive than A&G. (per etre gourmet pricing)

I think you're looking at different format size bottles on Etre. OG 750ml is same price as A&G 375ml.

And that's insane for Tilquin. Even here in NYC, it was $16 - $18 for Mure and $20 for a 750ml of Tilquin gueuze.

 

[Compton25]

Local place got a shipment of tilquin in which includes geuze, quetsche and mure.

It got me thinking, and ****, I havent consumed anything by Tilquin in about 3 years. I think now is the time to remedy this. If bottles last until friday (lol who am i kidding) I might swing by and buy some.

But then I saw how much they are per bottle...
$27-30 per 375ml

Are you ******* serious clark?


And while im on the bitching and groaning spree about pricing. I think this is the first time I noticed the price flip flop of 3f OG now being more expensive than A&G. (per etre gourmet pricing)

Tilquin OG 375mls turding the shelf here at $13. Let me know if you want me to pick you some up.