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Lambic Discussion Thread

Yakima 728
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I read the interesting (if a bit choppily translated) book Gueuze and Kriek by Jef Van den Steen which I believe is a few years old. They discuss Tilquin a bit which at that point had not produced their first gueuze yet (I guess they were less than 3 years old). From the book, it sounded like the head blender was hoping to expand once they got operations rolling and some day even brew his own lambic.

Since it's clearly been a few years and I occasionally see his stuff (only had it once or twice), it sounds like he has been fairly successful in a field that seems mostly dominated by old families. Does anyone know if Tilquin was continuing expansion? It seems as though it'd be a good time to be a lambic blender/brewer. Particularly one that makes as good a product as Tilquin.
 
BusinessSloth said:
Anyone who doesn't seek out Vig I will arrest for being mentally ill.


Srs though. I love Vigneronne. It's my favorite Loon by a long shot. Fresh or aged.
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Yeah I love it too - I didn't think it was that in demand (used to be on shelves here). Which sucks... because I don't want to have to order from Belgium every time I want some sweet sweet Vig action.
 
matedog said:
I read the interesting (if a bit choppily translated) book Gueuze and Kriek by Jef Van den Steen which I believe is a few years old. They discuss Tilquin a bit which at that point had not produced their first gueuze yet (I guess they were less than 3 years old). From the book, it sounded like the head blender was hoping to expand once they got operations rolling and some day even brew his own lambic.

Since it's clearly been a few years and I occasionally see his stuff (only had it once or twice), it sounds like he has been fairly successful in a field that seems mostly dominated by old families. Does anyone know if Tilquin was continuing expansion? It seems as though it'd be a good time to be a lambic blender/brewer. Particularly one that makes as good a product as Tilquin.
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He posted this on Facebook earlier this month:

"Today we get 69 new second-hand barrels of 400 liters, which means we will produce more beer in the future, but it will take us 2 to 3 years to get this additionnal volume..."

10527544_727439100647407_6281985891820989209_n.jpg
 
So, lambic pros:

On three separate occasions, i've accidentally frozen a Cantillon geuze. One was in my car on a cold day for consumption right after work (750), one was left in a car overnight (375), and one I tried to get cold very quickly and it frosted over (750). They've ranged from nearly solid and leaking (the 375) to barely having some ice crystals on the inside part of the cork.

Anyway, everyone of these tasted "off" in the same sort of way. fruity/grassy funk was replaced with stale/mineral/bitter funk. Still pretty good, but nowhere near what whey usually are (have several of the same vintage and even shipping history that were great).

Is this what happens when you freeze geuze? Or just Cantillon? or is it just because we drank them so quickly afterward, and didn't give them time to "go back to normal"? I find it pretty hard to believe that none of the other geuze I've ever had had been frozen at some point, between winter shipping/airlines/etc.

What's going on here anyway, is freezing forcing some chemicals out of solution or something?
 
ridglens said:
So, lambic pros:

On three separate occasions, i've accidentally frozen a Cantillon geuze. One was in my car on a cold day for consumption right after work (750), one was left in a car overnight (375), and one I tried to get cold very quickly and it frosted over (750). They've ranged from nearly solid and leaking (the 375) to barely having some ice crystals on the inside part of the cork.

Anyway, everyone of these tasted "off" in the same sort of way. fruity/grassy funk was replaced with stale/mineral/bitter funk. Still pretty good, but nowhere near what whey usually are (have several of the same vintage and even shipping history that were great).

Is this what happens when you freeze geuze? Or just Cantillon? or is it just because we drank them so quickly afterward, and didn't give them time to "go back to normal"? I find it pretty hard to believe that none of the other geuze I've ever had had been frozen at some point, between winter shipping/airlines/etc.

What's going on here anyway, is freezing forcing some chemicals out of solution or something?
Click to expand...

My guess would be that it causes the yeast cells to rupture and cause the off flavors
 
drgarage said:
Totally. Definitely sounds like autolysis...
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interesting, sounds pretty reasonable... but that would happen only if the water in the cells actually started freezing, right? One of these was just barely showing some frost on the outside with a little ice on the cork.
 
ridglens said:
interesting, sounds pretty reasonable... but that would happen only if the water in the cells actually started freezing, right? One of these was just barely showing some frost on the outside with a little ice on the cork.
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That's likely true -- we're definitely out of my depth here. I can only speak to those resembling some autolysis flavors.
 
drgarage said:
That's likely true -- we're definitely out of my depth here. I can only speak to those resembling some autolysis flavors.
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gotchya... probably is that then. If some cells bust but others live, will the surviving yeast clean up the mess?
 
i thought autolysis usually manifested itself in cat food/vomit/rancid meat/sometimes burnt rubber flavors?
 
boogercrack said:
i thought autolysis usually manifested itself in cat food/vomit/rancid meat/sometimes burnt rubber flavors?
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Cat food/vomit is usually more associated with butyric acid, I think.

I've definitely heard the meatiness thing for autolysis, but I've also heard soapiness pretty frequently, which is what I was assuming with the Cantillon example. But lambics are unique enough that it's actually difficult to infer what flaws taste like in them relative to other beers.
 
boogercrack said:
i thought autolysis usually manifested itself in cat food/vomit/rancid meat/sometimes burnt rubber flavors?
Click to expand...

drgarage said:
Cat food/vomit is usually more associated with butyric acid, I think.

I've definitely heard the meatiness thing for autolysis, but I've also heard soapiness pretty frequently, which is what I was assuming with the Cantillon example. But lambics are unique enough that it's actually difficult to infer what flaws taste like in them relative to other beers.
Click to expand...

I think butyric acid can be released during yeast autolysis.
 
LukeAleTime said:
From reading these articles they remind me of big beer sales people. Caught in a strange unchanging bubble that is narrowly focused and a little out of touch.

Also Real Ale comes in two styles, bitter or mid.

ok
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Remember to tick 60-minute IPA before you die!
 
I would like to take the cicerone test, just to impress places where I'd potentially get a job in the industry, and to let me know that I know my stuff, but every time I read something written by a cicerone, I can't help but giggle.
 
While I agree that cantillon Edward and heady topper are great, where is the average guy going to get these. If he is not on a list or near VT its next to impossible for a non trader to get them
 

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