What are the current thoughts on how much yeast to pitch in a 5gal batch of 5% beer?
LALBREW® VOSS KVEIK ALE YEAST
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Half a packet works well.
So basically, it behaves like every other beer.
I'm convinced now that there are no clarity issues with the voss strain. This is a kveik wheat beer that's been kegged about 3 weeks. It has just a hint of haze left at this point. Irish moss doesn't hurt though. A healthy dose of that stuff will clear up just about any beer.
nickbarley
Well-Known Member
After only 1.5/2 hours from pitching, this Voss dry yeast is already bubbling and fermenting like crazy. I have never had a batch kick off so fast. I sprinkled directly onto the wort at about 100 F. I could get used to this!
El Duderino
Well-Known Member
this stuff ferments angrily. 8 hours after pitching @90 degrees in 1.053 wort it blew all the starsan out of my airlock
nickbarley
Well-Known Member
Update: The Voss also blew through my airlock and some of the yeast dried on top of my fermenter. It's interesting how it dries into perfect flakes for you to preserve for later. Anyways - started at 1.055 and finished at 1.010 in 48 hours. Already cold crashed it and racked to my keg for carbonating. The sample had a subtle orange/citrusy note, which may dissipate as the yeast settles out, but no off flavors, super clean profile.
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nickbarley
Well-Known Member
Still hazy, but surprisingly drinkable for going grain to glass in 5 days. The flavor is remarkably clean for a young beer, and the citrusy notes are not overwhelming at all, it's very subtle and works well for a blonde ale. Those esters surely will fade with lagering.
In my experience, even after multiple months in the bottle, everything faded, except the flavour that came from the yeast, this stays. Which is actually great.
nickbarley
Well-Known Member
That would be nice if the flavors from the yeast stayed in there! It's very refreshing with this light grain bill. Just two row and melanoidin. Looking forward to see how this matures.
I must add, I did not use this yeast but the liquid form and an original from Norway, but they all displayed this behaviour, that the yeast based flavours stayed. As it's quite close to certain hop flavours used in ipas, I think it's possible to make a long term storage ipa with it, only with bittering additions.
I've found the same with my beers. Drinkable right away, but after a couple of weeks of conditioning (I bottle condition), the green flavors fade allowing the malt to come through more. My last batch, Haus Pale Ale, was step mashed, and finished out at around 1.007! It was (obnoxiously) dry, but after a couple of weeks in the bottle turned out to be much more drinkable.
I describe the green flavor of Voss to be more of a snappy bite if that makes any sense. Almost like hop bitterness, but a little weirder on the tongue. It fades with time, but who has time these days?
In my opinion, it's an acidic bite, which I have percieved with all three kveiks I've tried, which is lutra and Voss and one original mix from Norway from a friend who was there.
And I agree, over time this gets much better, but it does not truly fade. Especially in a cleaner and low abv beer, this can be a bit unpleasant and does not really fit into the picture. But in a higher abv beer, this acidic bite gets easily overpowered by residual sweetness and alcohol.
Obviously in a sour, this wouldn't be a problem as well.
That's a very good description! I hate not having fermentation control because I know there are more style-appropriate yeasts, but I keep sticking with the Voss because it's so darn hardy and you can't beat the turnaround time.
Got mine here LalBrew Voss Kveik Yeast (11g)
I'm going to backpedal my statement about the bite on this yeast... I just popped an American brown bottle last night after only 5 days of bottle conditioning, and it was pretty phenomenal. It's a clone of Avery's Ellie's Brown, and it is pretty spot on. I don't get any of that bite that I've gotten with past brews with this yeast, but I also fermented at the lower end of the spectrum.
Wort/beer temperature was around 75 degrees. I set my Inkbird to 80 which means my wort temp was about 5 degrees cooler. This is about as clean as I've had either the Omega or Lallemand Voss ferment.
I listened to a Brew Strong episode lately with a guy from Escarpment Labs in Canada, and he mentioned that some of the kveiks they've experimented with change character with temperature while others are consistent no matter the temp. Maybe Voss is one of the ones that change depending on fermentation temperature?
Either way, I might recommend fermenting at the lower end of Lallemand's recommended range for a cleaner profile.
Interesting.
What were the ogs and fgs of the beers that had this bite and what numbers did you have from your recent brew that didn't have the bite?
BolgBeorach
Active Member
I've fermented 4 beers with Kveik and never had that acrid bite that you describe. Latest two I fermented at about 35C (95F) and the two before at close to 40C (105F). Only flavour I ever really get from it is a tropical/orange hint, and that tends to fade out completely after sufficient conditioning.
I did an amber ale with OG 1.058, FG 1.010 that had it. I also did the Haus Pale Ale recipe that was 1.049 and finished at 1.008 that also had the flavor. Both of those were fermented at 85-90 degrees F.
This most recent brown ale was 1.056 and 1.010. Part of the pale ale's problems could have been that it went a couple of gravity points lower than anticipated. It's since mellowed significantly and is a much more approachable beer. The others just had a bit of a funk I couldn't quite put my finger on.
I'm also one of those people that perceive certain hops as "soapy". That was never the case in the past, but it seems to be something I've acquired over the years. Another thing.. I haven't yet done water treatments. That's about to change moving forward, but could very likely be a culprit in this flavor. Usually, I use 50/50 RO/tap water with Campden for chloramine. That's always been a good blend but probably isn't appropriate for all styles.
I'm interested to see what happens when I start treating water on my next batch. Hops may also be the culprit, but I'm not sure.
I finally got settled into our new house and am itching to brew something. I haven't made anything since last June!!!
I have a packet of Voss and like 11 lbs of 2-row that is starting to get old and a ton of cascade hops equally as old. Maybe I'll throw it together and make a Viking SMaSH since i don't have my fementation chamber set up yet.
I messed around with Hornidal someone gave me but haven't tried Voss yet. Screw it I'm brewing tonight!!!
I have a packet of Voss and like 11 lbs of 2-row that is starting to get old and a ton of cascade hops equally as old. Maybe I'll throw it together and make a Viking SMaSH since i don't have my fementation chamber set up yet.
I messed around with Hornidal someone gave me but haven't tried Voss yet. Screw it I'm brewing tonight!!!
That´s the spirit! My advice, keep the OG above 1.055. 1.065 is probably even better. If the tartness comes a bit through, higher OGs will mask it better.
Unfortunately, I'm a big fan of lower OG beers... so I'll stick to the english yeasts I guess.
BolgBeorach
Active Member
I use RO water without additions, if that is of any help.
With my most recent batch of ingredients, I ordered all of the water additions to start building my water from RO. BeerSmith does a great job of creating those profiles. I’ve never messed with it, but I’ll start on my next batch.
BolgBeorach
Active Member
I actually did the same thing last week, interestingly enough. Got a few bags of minerals to use in a weissbier I'll do soon. I figured I was making the extra effort on everything else, so I might as well level up on the water aspect as well. Being able to start from a neutral RO base is also worth making the full use of
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
I find that using nutrients in kveik beers make the beers better. Just my two cents. Especially for under 1050OG beers
What was the exact effect you got from the nutrients?
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Well in my opinion most kveik yeasts have this kinda sharp bitter taste to it. With the nutrients I've noticed that most of that is gone. Like there's still the citrusy taste but less of it. I always ferment at 38degrees celcius with Voss and at 33degrees with Hornindal. Actually have started to prefer the horningdal lately (3-4 batches)
Good info, I also really don't like that specific taste and had that a lot in my beers.
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Cool, glad you could use it. I've brewed with kveik now almost exclusively for over 2, maybe even three years now. Started with the real farm stuff from Voss, tried the lallemand stuff, didn't like it much. May have been my fault. Now I love Horningdal. It's awesome. I ferment under pressure at high psi and high temp. Last beer took just over 32 hours to finish
I also started with an original from Norway. That was fun! It infected my lager starter once and sloooowly turned that at first perfectly clean lager into a kveik
Then I also checked Voss, was a bit too tart for me. I hope this tartness is what you are referring to with "bite" because later on I got the same thing from lutra.
Lutra without this bite would be really nice.
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
Yes. Tart, that's the word I was looking for. Cool experiment with the clean lager!I also started with an original from Norway. That was fun! It infected my lager starter once and sloooowly turned that at first perfectly clean lager into a kveik
Then I also checked Voss, was a bit too tart for me. I hope this tartness is what you are referring to with "bite" because later on I got the same thing from lutra.
Lutra without this bite would be really nice.
Also I've found that you need to chill to room temp before adding dryhops. I think over 30 degrees brings out to much, eeeh I dunno... Resin haha, from the hops.
Still. I love my kveik strains. I must be on gen 15-20 on the Voss and 6-7 on the horningdal. They are still going strong. Love the stuff. I've also noticed that some hops don't agree well with voss. Like sabro. I made a simple smash from pale malt and sabro with Voss. It came out weird. Not bad. Just weird. Also with cascade if added late two of my beers have come out kinda sour, like a squeesed lemon. Don't know. I'm by no means a pro. But I've been doing this for over 5 years now.
Well.... That experiment was not on purpose, but it certainly was interesting to see that the typical kveik flavour took over more and more each day passed, after bottling. At first Vienna lager, after two months Vienna kveik.
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
I can imagine that was interesting. Hehe. Vienna kveik sounds awesome though so I'm sure it didn't feel like a loss. How are your results with clearness. Mine vary so much. I mean of course they clear up given enough time. But kinda defeats the purpuse if you have to wait a month, right? Some of mine take literally hours to clear, others take weeks. Kveik beers that is. I've started adding gelatine to the cloudy ones. I just think it's weird how different more or less the same recipe can be.
@Julian Høstan Urrea I’ve had similar results using Voss from two different sources. Most the of time they don’t want to clear. Sometimes they drop clear within a week. I’d like to hear if anyone has had success figuring out what causes this.
El Duderino
Well-Known Member
Julian Høstan Urrea
Soyyojuli
I'm thinking it could have something to do with late hop addicions? Like what happens with Neipa ( New England Pale Ale)? I do love my kveik though. My last one is a pale ale with some tropical hops fermented with horningdal. Wonderful
Has anyone tried combining the Voss kveik strain with simple sugars like invert syrup?
I'm thinking about adding a pound of homemade invert #3 to a wheat beer fermented with Voss and I'm wondering if it might result in some ester weirdness. I'm not aiming for a particular style here. Just a light amberish wheat beer with some interesting caramel and toffee undertones. It will be a moderate 1.050, 5% beer with balanced C-hop flavor and aroma. Something like:
50% Wheat malt
33% 2 Row
12% #3 invert
5% C60
I'm thinking about adding a pound of homemade invert #3 to a wheat beer fermented with Voss and I'm wondering if it might result in some ester weirdness. I'm not aiming for a particular style here. Just a light amberish wheat beer with some interesting caramel and toffee undertones. It will be a moderate 1.050, 5% beer with balanced C-hop flavor and aroma. Something like:
50% Wheat malt
33% 2 Row
12% #3 invert
5% C60
My concern would be that the invert won't provide any nutrients but sugar and kveiks really want their nutrients to metabolise the sugar.
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