Lag time extreme, US-05 dry yeast

[gosolo]

I’m closing in on 4 days, and have yet to see a single burp. It’s in a bucket, so I can’t see if there’s Krause. Ambient temperature temperature is 60*, 5 gallon extract brew with grains.
I’m planning to pop the lid this afternoon and add another package of rehydrated yeast.
Is there anything I might have done wrong? Should I wait any longer? I’m worried that other bugs or mold might have a free lunch. Thanks for your feedback

 

[CodeSection]

The ideal fermentation temp is 64F-82F. I have never gone below 68F. I'm guessing the 60F fermentation temp will have some slowing affect. With that said, could you have a leak in the bucket's lid? Perhaps it is not fully sealed? Smell anything?

https://fermentis.com/en/fermentation-solutions/you-create-beer/safale-us-05/

EDIT: When touching the outside of the bucket, does it feel warmer?

 

[ncbrewer]

The ideal fermentation temp is 64F-82F. I have never gone below 68F. I'm guessing the 60F fermentation temp will have some slowing affect. With that said, could you have a leak in the bucket's lid? Perhaps it is not fully sealed? Smell anything?

+1
You can check for krausen. Darken the room and set a flashlight on the bucket lid shining down. You can see a liquid/krausen line on the side of the bucket. But sometimes it's hard or impossible to see where the liquid stops and the krausen starts, so it helps if you know exactly what the liquid level was.

 

[McKnuckle]

Buckets don't always seal perfectly, which then prevents the airlock from working. My bet is on your beer - it's probably cruising along just fine. Open the lid and peek before fermentation gets too far along. Chances are you've got a protective head of krausen on there now.

 

[gosolo]

Can’t see a clear demarcation line with the flashlight.
Smell isn’t conclusive, there’s another bucket next to it that is percolating happily.
Temperature test, by hand, seems slightly warm, but I’m not sure.
Agree it’s most likely the bucket seal, but I’ve had virtually zero issues with these bucket gaskets (only a few months on beer, but decades of use with paints, solvents, thinners, etc)
I did spray stuff around the cork and air lock, (similar to looking for a gas leak, but using starsan not soap) With no visible leak.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Just let it ride. Although it happens most of the time, airlock activity is not a tell tale of fermentation. Although US-05 can go down to 60, I wouldn't bet the barn that it will ferment vigorously that low.

I had a leaky seal that prevented airlock activity. I've missed any activity that may or may not have happened. One time I even forgot to fill the airlock. At the end of the day beer was still the end result.

 

[CodeSection]

Can’t see a clear demarcation line with the flashlight.
Smell isn’t conclusive, there’s another bucket next to it that is percolating happily.
Temperature test, by hand, seems slightly warm, but I’m not sure.
Agree it’s most likely the bucket seal, but I’ve had virtually zero issues with these bucket gaskets (only a few months on beer, but decades of use with paints, solvents, thinners, etc)
I did spray stuff around the cork and air lock, (similar to looking for a gas leak, but using starsan not soap) With no visible leak.

Do you have a thermapen or something similar to measure the outside temp of the bucket? The slightly warm feeling by touch is a good sign that fermentation has started. I know it will be difficult, but have you tried spraying StarSan under the bucket's lid to see if any bubbles appear?

At this point I would be inclined to do nothing except trying to warm up the room or area the bucket is in. Then check the touch again after a day of so if you do not see any activity in the airlock. I just can't imagine the US-05 is stalled.

 

[Dland]

Only thing I can think of other than leaking seal is forgetting to pitch the yeast in that bucket.

 

[Yesfan]

Where do you have the bucket located? You mentioned the room's temp is 60F. If the bucket is in a garage, basement, etc. on a concrete floor, I bet that bucket is much cooler than 60.

My cousin ran into something similar when trying to get some beers to bottle condition. He had them on a concrete floor in his basement. The floor was very cold to the touch despite the room being in the mid 60s. Once he moved them to a warmer place, the bottles conditioned.

 

[gosolo]

The buckets are in the bathtub of a centrally located bathroom. Very stable and well insulated. I’m new to this, but all 10 brews I’ve done were done there, and fermentation was rapid and complete. Although I have no temperature monitoring on the bucket surfaces, I have been assuming that the fermentation process has raised the actual contents by 3 to 5*, which should be about optimum.

 

[CodeSection]

^^^^Again, increase the room's temp by at least 4F-5F and check for activity after waiting at least 24 hours....

 

[gosolo]

Okay, moved it out to the living room. Temperature running around 65*
I spent more flashlight time and only see one line.
I haven’t sprayed around under the bucket lid because it would have to be a much thicker solution than starsan. Soap would work, but any contamination at all will ruin it.

 

[Yesfan]

65 is better than 60. If you haven't opened the lid, I'd wait until it's been 24hrs as suggested before doing. Then, check and see if it's fermented out or is fermenting. At least you'll know whether to pitch another packet of US-05 or not by then.

The last stout I did, I used 05 and it kinda done the same thing. I can't remember the temps, but was lower than I wanted (I like mid to high 60s for mine). There was hardly any activity at all. The stout looked like fizzing Coke during active fermentation. The beer still turned out pretty decent.

 

[Positronic_Matrix]

This is quite a coincidence. I am right now having the same problem with the same yeast. I’m also a bit cooler at about 18 °C (65 °F) in my garage.

On Thu night on a whim I decided to try a DME no-boil IPA instead of the usual all-grain process I use. I pitched a US-05 starter into my fermenter and still two days later I have no activity. It’s the longest lag I’ve had in years of brewing (and the first time I’ve used US-05). I have a perfectly still vessel of pure wort staring back at me. Last night I pitched in another vial of yeast. Still nothing.

There are complications in my case though. I am using frozen US-05 yeast for the first time. A few weeks ago, I placed US-05 into a starter, let it go for a few days, and then froze the lot using the proper amount of water and glycerol.

As a backup plan, I’ve now got a starter going with frozen WLP051. It’s clearly doing well in the starter. Although I planned it for a brew on Sunday, I’m going to pitch it into my dormant batch tonight if it doesn’t start showing activity with US-05. I’m just not comfortable leaving a vat of wort sitting about without active yeast.

Edit: I checked the temperature and it’s in fact 16 °C (60 °F) in my garage. I’ve brought the vessel in the house per the advice above. It will give me something to obsessively check until my back-up starter is ready to pitch in the evening.

 

[gosolo]

Right now, Saturday noon, it’s been 96 hours since I closed the lid. The present location is probably 65 to 68 degrees and if nothing is happening by morning, I’ll probably pitch another rehydrated pack.

 

[CodeSection]

Right now, Saturday noon, it’s been 96 hours since I closed the lid. The present location is probably 65 to 68 degrees and if nothing is happening by morning, I’ll probably pitch another rehydrated pack.

You may not know, but you do not need to rehydrate the yeast and can pitch directly into the wort. Could you explain your process when you rehydrated? In particular, what was the temperature of water when you added the yeast?

 

[gosolo]

You may not know, but you do not need to rehydrate the yeast and can pitch directly into the wort. Could you explain your process when you rehydrated? In particular, what was the temperature of water when you added the yeast?

I did not measure the temperature but I waited until the little pot I used was cool enough to keep my hand on. From experience, that’s probably between 105 & 120f.
I understand it’s not essential to rehydrate the dry yeast, but understand it could be preferable.

 

[CodeSection]

I did not measure the temperature but I waited until the little pot I used was cool enough to keep my hand on. From experience, that’s probably between 105 & 120f.
I understand it’s not essential to rehydrate the dry yeast, but understand it could be preferable.

Yikes! At 120F temperature, I suspect you severely injured or killed a lot if not all the yeast. If the temp was 105F, I believe the yeast was injured and stressed too much. This probably along with the 60F fermentation explains why there is no or very little fermentation activity. In the future, I would buy a cheap thermometer to measure the temp and add the yeast below 85F. That being said, I do not hydrate US-05 or US-04 yeast anymore and just directly pitch them into the wort.

With this new information, I would spray Starsan on the outside of a US-05 package and on the blades of scissors; cut open the package and dry pitch directly into the bucket.

I'm curious, how was your process different with this batch using US-05 vs the other batch you have going? Different yeast, style, hydration method?

 

[Positronic_Matrix]

This is quite a coincidence. I am right now having the same problem with the same yeast.

After getting my wort up to 18 °C (68 °F) I thought I’d check the gravity with a hydrometer. My OG was 1.050 and this reading was 1.049, which is within measurement error. It’s doing nothing. Additionally, the beer had a slight off smell. I thus made the call to quit messing around with US-05 and go straight to my WLP051 starter.

Good luck, OP! If you get it going, let us know.

 

[CodeSection]

After getting my wort up to 18 °C (68 °F) I thought I’d check the gravity with a hydrometer. My OG was 1.050 and this reading was 1.049, which is within measurement error. It’s doing nothing. Additionally, the beer had a slight off smell. I thus made the call to quit messing around with US-05 and go straight to my WLP051 starter.

Good luck, OP! If you get it going, let us know.

I seriously doubt slightly over two hours will have any affect to increase fermentation activity in such a short time. I don't even think the wort can warm that fast with an ambient temperature increase of 8F.

Just curious, you made a starter with the frozen US-05? Is it fair to assume the starter was active and at the necessary yeast pitch rate needed? Did you pitch the whole starter or did you decant first before pitching? Lastly, is it fair to assume you have been using frozen yeast before without problems or issues? You are making slants, correct?

Good luck with the WLP051! Let us know the outcome.

 

[dwhite60]

Another side issue. If you get US-05 too cold it will impart a "peach" flavor to your beer.

Things have a preferred range for fermentation.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Yesfan]

I did not measure the temperature but I waited until the little pot I used was cool enough to keep my hand on. From experience, that’s probably between 105 & 120f.
I understand it’s not essential to rehydrate the dry yeast, but understand it could be preferable.

Next time you use dry yeast, you can pitch it straight or rehydrate it. If you rehydrate it, try to get the water you're using to the same temp or a few degrees cooler, than the wort. With the temp being between 105-120, you probably massacred most of the colony and the rest may have went dormant going into the much colder wort.

Everyone's different, but when I re-hydrate yeast I usually....

1) collect and heat 4oz of water in a pryex measuring cup in the microwave until it starts boiling.
2) pour the boiling water in a sanitized stainless steel pint cup. I like the single wall as they will dissipate the heat better than the vacuum sealed ones. I stick a thermometer (my Thermopen) in to monitor the temp drop
3) fill a large stainless steel mixing bowl with ice water and set in sink, place the pint cup in the mixing bowl of ice water.
4) I stir the water in one direction with a sanitized spoon, while stirring the ice water in the other direction. I'll watch the temp drop til it's near the same as the wort (in the mid 60s)
5) While all this is going on, I have the yeast packet and a pair of scissors sitting in a small pitcher of Star-san.
6) pour the yeast in the cup, and stir all the lumps out until it's milky smooth.
7) Aerate or oxygenate the wort, then pitch the yeast into the fermenter.


Takes me about 10 minutes start to finish. I've been doing it this way with the last few batches and noticed my lag time was cut in half. One batch took off in about 6 hours. Hope this helps.

 

[Positronic_Matrix]

I seriously doubt slightly over two hours will have any affect to increase fermentation activity in such a short time. I don't even think the wort can warm that fast with an ambient temperature increase of 8F.

I used a space heater with a built in fan near the face of the FastFerment conical to drive the temperature up in that short period of time. I did not expect fermentation to noticeably progress in this short period. Instead, I got spooked by the odd smell and confirmation from the hydrometer reading that the fermentation was not happening. Since I had another starter that was looking good, I just tossed it in to be done with the issue.

I’ve never tried a no-boil DME beer before. I’m starting to wonder if that has something to do with the lack of activity, although I couldn’t imagine what would prevent DME in water from fermenting.

Just curious, you made a starter with the frozen US-05? Is it fair to assume the starter was active and at the necessary yeast pitch rate needed? Did you pitch the whole starter or did you decant first before pitching? Lastly, is it fair to assume you have been using frozen yeast before without problems or issues? You are making slants, correct?

I did make a starter and informally it appeared to be active, as I seem to recall that the color changed from clear brown to light milky. However in retrospect I wonder. I’ve only recently started using starters and realise now I should be taking a hydrometer reading to be sure.

I did not decant and pitched the whole starter (1 L).

This week was the first time I’ve used my frozen US-05 and WLP051 yeasts. I can confirm the WLP051 is alive and kicking but I’m wondering about the US-05. I think I’ll make a starter with another vial of the US-05 tomorrow and see if it’s actually viable.

I’m banking yeast as opposed to slanting. I multiplied the yeast in a large starter with a couple of steps, let the yeast settle, decanted, and added the yeast to 50 mL centrifuge vials with glycerol and water per online instructions.

Edit: The new yeast did the trick. It’s gone from 1.05 to 1.04 overnight and is bubbling. I did discover my lid was leaking. Thus I think the US-05 was slow going but would have eventually gotten there.

 

[gosolo]

I got the package of yeast and scissors sterilized and ready, then opened the lid.
......no krauzen. I pitched the package of dry yeast and sealed up the bucket.
My evaluation is that when I was dehydrating the yeast originally, I mixed it into water too hot and killed it.
If I’m cooking with bubbles in the morning I’ll be happy.
Equally important, the beer smellsawesome! We’re going to have to wait till tomorrow to see if I’m back on track (of course, it’ll be over a month to see if it’s good beer!)

 

[fendersrule]

I go in phases if I re-hydrate or not.

Honestly, I've found that doesn't matter very much at all.

Lag-time may slightly be reduced, but flavor is the exact same.

 

[gosolo]

FINAL REPORT:
I’m happy! The yeast is doing it’s thing!
Thank y’all for the feedback, help and suggestions.

 

[CodeSection]

FINAL REPORT:
I’m happy! The yeast is doing it’s thing!
Thank y’all for the feedback, help and suggestions.

I'm glad it worked out. Happy brewing!

 

[beersk]

Right now, Saturday noon, it’s been 96 hours since I closed the lid. The present location is probably 65 to 68 degrees and if nothing is happening by morning, I’ll probably pitch another rehydrated pack.

Personally, I would have done this after about 36-48 hours. But that's just how I roll.

 

[gosolo]

I’m sure I should have done this re-pitch sooner. I picked up extra yeast to have on hand for any future incidents.
I didn’t move on this more quickly for several reasons;
1) I’m a novice
2) Lot’s of posts on here about beginner impatience caused problems
3) over an hour round trip to the HBS

living, learning, and drinking beer along the way!

Reality is only for people who can’t handle drugs and alcohol.

 

[CodeSection]

I’m sure I should have done this re-pitch sooner. I picked up extra yeast to have on hand for any future incidents.
I didn’t move on this more quickly for several reasons;
1) I’m a novice
2) Lot’s of posts on here about beginner impatience caused problems
3) over an hour round trip to the HBS

living, learning, and drinking beer along the way!

Reality is only for people who can’t handle drugs and alcohol.

Don't forget about you fermenting well below recommended ideal temperatures. Typically, fermentation just slows way down. In your case, you severely injured or killed the yeast PLUS had a very low fermentation temperatures. It wasn't until in later posts that you gave additional information that correctly diagnosed the real issue. Could you have started the thread 12-24 hours earlier? Perhaps.

Maybe some would have arbitrarily thrown additional yeast in without thought or reason a little sooner. But what does that really accomplish? It is better to find out what occurred to not only correct the current issue on hand, but also to learn so as to prevent future issues.

If you had just pitched additional yeast without thought or discovering the cause of the problem, I suspect you would have continued to re-hydrate the yeast with 105F-120F using just your hands to measure the temperature of the water. I believe now you will have a different process involving re-hydrating yeast.

So, don't beat yourself up. That really wasn't a fair comment....almost like Monday morning quarterbacking.

 

[fendersrule]

Just empty the dry pack into the wort next time after a few hours of it sitting on your counter. I wouldn't worry about re hydrating yeast until you're further down the road in experience. It's one more thing that can go wrong, and it appears that it did.

Don't be surprised if your beer is funky from sitting for 96 hours, which is a long time for fresh wort that's prime for wild yeast and other critters to get into without any protection (fermentation).

It's "probably" fine, but it would be one of my concerns.