White Labs WLP001 Dry Yeast Coming Soon

[Onthebrew]

After reading through this thread I just think WL are hedging their bets. They have a premium liquid brand in a contracting market they will continue to hold but to grow their business they looking are looking to move into the expanding market of dry yeasts.

If their first offering is 001 and outsourced to llalemand then it makes sense to place it premium, otherwise it would be directly competing against Lallemand‘s own chico strain. as for Lallemand it gives them another hose in the chico market

 

[Bassman2003]

I'm actually happy that they are farming it out to people who already have a process worked out. And yes, I do believe that the fact that it is WLP001 instead of US-05 is the only real selling point.

I do have an opinion about attenuation, which is backed up by experience and which I believe is shared by many. But I thought I was pretty clear that I was "truly asking" about other things that people might be lumping together under the generic term "performance." But since you brought it up, I am also of the opinion (this time purely speculative) that the drying process just might damage the yeast less than shipping and handling of liquid preparations.

Could be. I hope the liquid and dry will be indistinguishable in all aspects and the price of the dry will come down to match the other market options. Cal ale is my favorite IPA yeast.

 

[Pennine]

After reading through this thread I just think WL are hedging their bets. They have a premium liquid brand in a contracting market they will continue to hold but to grow their business they looking are looking to move into the expanding market of dry yeasts.

If their first offering is 001 and outsourced to llalemand then it makes sense to place it premium, otherwise it would be directly competing against Lallemand‘s own chico strain. as for Lallemand it gives them another hose in the chico market

Llalemand doesn't have a chico strain and I'd be surprised if this one isn't simply borrowed US-05.

Dropped into my LHBS today and was chatting with the store workers, and I found out WL is going all in on pure pitch and they will all be $15 once current old stock runs out. Ridiculous to pay a premium to finally be able to pitch years directly when we have a local yeast company about a mile away who have been doing the same for years and it's only $10 and much fresher.

Anyways I am sure some will get on with this overpriced dry 001 and claim it has hints of pears to justify spending 3 times as much as US-05.

 

[VikeMan]

Llalemand doesn't have a chico strain and I'd be surprised if this one isn't simply borrowed US-05.

I guess it could be US-05, but if it is, they'd be lying, because WLP001 and US-05 are different strains.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

Llalemand doesn't have a chico strain and I'd be surprised if this one isn't simply borrowed US-05.

I guess it could be US-05, but if it is, they'd be lying, because WLP001 and US-05 are different strains.

Not just lying, but stealing Fermentis' strain. I'm quite confident that they supplied Llalemand with WLP001 to grow and dry for them under contract.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Llalemand doesn't have a chico strain

Yes they do - BRY-97, an unofficial name that came about because it was another derivative line from Siebel BRY-96, the "original" ancestor of the Chico family.

And for the nth time - we now have sequences of all of them; US-05, 1056, WLP001 are all closely related, but they are not the same - in particular the 1056/US-05 group has a BAT1 mutation that's been fixed by a chromosome translocation in the WLP001 group, and they all have a chromosome missing compared to the original BRY-96.

 

[Pennine]

So they will basically relabel Bry-97? Do we really think they will go through they process of drying another strain when they have a couple that are proven and virtually identical for brewing purposes?

 

[Pennine]

fwiw...

View attachment 816155

Cheers!

Thanks I haven't seen this in a long time. It's funny how Belle Saison looks more similar to 001 than US-05 and how different it is.

 

[Pennine]

Not just lying, but stealing Fermentis' strain. I'm quite confident that they supplied Llalemand with WLP001 to grow and dry for them under contract.

Where do you think they got the yeast from originally? I wouldn't call it stealing, they are just growing the yeast and providing a product as a farmer would.

 

[eliastheodosis]

People lie. I doubt anyone would argue that. In this case, I think the issue with lying is that they signed a contract and it'd be a relatively simple matter to spot check some packs of dry 001 see if they're being honest.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So they will basically relabel Bry-97?

No - because it's a different yeast, it probably doesn't even have the same chromosome count.

Do we really think they will go through they process of drying another strain when they have a couple that are proven and virtually identical for brewing purposes?

Yes - because they are under contract, would like to maintain a reputation, and it is trivially easy if you have the kit to test the difference between WLP001 and BRY-97. (and if there was even a suspicion that they were playing games, you can be sure that Fermentis would be sequencing them although even a BAT1 PCR would be sufficient)

 

[rtstrider]

fwiw...

View attachment 816155

Cheers!

Really curious to see where the Bells house strain fall, if at all, in the Chico lineage?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Really curious to see where the Bells house strain fall, if at all, in the Chico lineage?

It's very close to the original BRY-96 along with the Elysian relatives like Imperial A30, but unlike them has lost a copy of chromosome V

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

 

[madscientist451]

$12.95 for Cal Ale yeast? Does Sierra Nevada still bottle condition? You could buy a 6 pack, get buzzed, and then dump the dregs into a 1 gallon batch of homebrew and be good to go by the time you sobered up.....

 

[rtstrider]

$12.95 for Cal Ale yeast? Does Sierra Nevada still bottle condition? You could buy a 6 pack, get buzzed, and then dump the dregs into a 1 gallon batch of homebrew and be good to go by the time you sobered up.....

I don't know about that lol Their yeast, and Bells, takes quite awhile to wake up initially

 

[madscientist451]

Yeah, I was exaggerating on purpose.....I still can't believe they think home brewers are going to accept that price. So the bottle yeast is still viable on all Sierra Nevada? You hardly see it in the stores anymore around here.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Williams Brewing will give you a chance to try it for free! (You just have to spend a little money)

 

[k-daddy]

$12.95 for an 11g packet on their site. Where I live its $15 to ship one too if I order it from them. So why wouldn’t I just continue to buy the liquid?

Not to mention the recommended pitch rate. You’d need 2 packets for a 5 gallon batch, average gravity IPA. Seems a ripoff. Dry yeast packaging amounts appear to place profit over consumer satisfaction. I wish dry yeast manufactures would offer a 20g packet and charge a little more for it over the current 11g offerings.

 

[mac_1103]

Dry yeast packaging amounts appear to place profit over consumer satisfaction. I wish dry yeast manufactures would offer a 20g packet and charge a little more for it over the current 11g offerings.

Maybe this one does, but I and many others have never had a problem direct pitching one pack of Fermentis' dry ale yeasts into 5 gallons of mid-gravity wort. I don't use two packs unless my OG is >1.080, and even then it's probably not necessary. Their are whole threads on whether everyody's really overpitching most dry yeast most of the time.

Is there a spec sheet on this? What's the cell count?

edit - couldn't find a cell count, but tech sheet says 1 pack for 5 gallons

 

[k-daddy]

Maybe this one does, but I and many others have never had a problem direct pitching one pack of Fermentis' dry ale yeasts into 5 gallons of mid-gravity wort. I don't use two packs unless my OG is >1.080, and even then it's probably not necessary. Their are whole threads on whether everyody's really overpitching most dry yeast most of the time.

Is there a spec sheet on this? What's the cell count?

edit - couldn't find a cell count, but tech sheet says 1 pack for 5 gallons

Not according to the label for an average gravity IPA. While I understand that 1 pkg of dry yeast will oftentimes suffice, I hate to gamble and risk wasting a batch as a result of under-pitching.

 

[mac_1103]

"The requested page could not be found."

 

[k-daddy]

"The requested page could not be found."

I think I fixed it.

 

[jambop]

Maybe this one does, but I and many others have never had a problem direct pitching one pack of Fermentis' dry ale yeasts into 5 gallons of mid-gravity wort. I don't use two packs unless my OG is >1.080, and even then it's probably not necessary. Their are whole threads on whether everyody's really overpitching most dry yeast most of the time.

Is there a spec sheet on this? What's the cell count?

edit - couldn't find a cell count, but tech sheet says 1 pack for 5 gallons

Says on the front of the packet 0.5 - 1g per liter of wort. I know that I get a great fermentation from pitching one pack of Lallemand dried yeast into up to 27l of wort .

 

[mac_1103]

Well, 0.5 g/L means 11 g will do for 22 L. The middle of the range means a pack will do for 16.5 L. I guess if you want to be conservative you should go ahead and be conservative, but my guess is that it can be pitched just like most other dry yeasts and I would be really surprised if people start reporting failures using one pack for 5 gallons of an average gravity IPA.

Like I said, the (warning - pdf) tech sheet says 1 pack will do 5 gallons.

 

[Red over White]

The suggested pitch rates and pitch rate calculators are helpful, but to me actual performance in the fermenter is all that really matters. If I am having extended lag times and reduced consumption of intial gravity points, I messed up one of the most critical parts of the fermentation process for the types of beers I make. Now, I do understand that with certain strains for certain styles this is perfectly fine to have a long lag time. None of this is in any way meant to be inflammatory, just my view on fermenting just like the brewers and their beers that I am trying to replicate.

 

[Bassman2003]

Since when do we trust what the yeast companies say? Or to be for our benefit? This same company used to say over and over one could direct pitch their soda bottle tube back when it had 50-70 billion cells on a good day. Yes people made beer with those recommendations but obviously there was a better way.

Rather than just tell us to do something, I would rather White Labs actually say how many active cells will make it into the wort. Does one packet give you 50, 100, 150, 200 million viable cells? I venture to say they will not go that far.

 

[mac_1103]

I venture to say they will not go that far.

And one wonders why not, since they subcontact production to Lallemand who does go that far.

"For most strains, 1g of dry yeast contains a minimum of 5 billion viable cells, but the number will vary slightly from batch to batch."

And the specification of ≥ 5 x 10^9 CFU per gram of dry yeast is considered to be quite conservative by many. OTOH, if you think the liquid version is unreliable then I can see why you would also think the dry version is unreliable. But that's not a criticism of dry yeast.

 

[mac_1103]

If I am having extended lag times and reduced consumption of intial gravity points

Are you? Also not meaning to be inflammatory; just honestly asking. Every time I direct pitch dry yeast per the manufacturer's recommendations it's bubbling its butt off by the next morning and attenuates as expected. Full disclosure - I don't do lagers and acknowledge that that might be very different.

 

[beernutz]

I could see the dry strains performing better in the LHBS market. A LHBS told me that they have trouble pushing liquid strains prior to their expiration date. Having this dry option would help a good bit!

My LHBS stopped carrying liquid yeast altogether.