Kind of bland cider - advice?

[Con-Rad]

I have 5 gallons of cider fermented with EC-1118, and 5 gallons with cote de blanc. both were made with sweet cider that i added 3 1/2 cups brown sugar to. both have finished fermenting, and i was going to bottle this weekend but i sneeked a taste and it's less than impressive. it doesn't taste too strong, has a light tingle to it, and tastes kind of watery. not something i want to drink or give away 10 gallons of.

so what to do? i have more carboys, should i rack on top of more sugar and fruit? maybe raisins and apples?

thanks!

conrad

 

[vinylrooster]

I have 5 gallons of cider fermented with EC-1118, and 5 gallons with cote de blanc. both were made with sweet cider that i added 3 1/2 cups brown sugar to. both have finished fermenting, and i was going to bottle this weekend but i sneeked a taste and it's less than impressive. it doesn't taste too strong, has a light tingle to it, and tastes kind of watery. not something i want to drink or give away 10 gallons of.

so what to do? i have more carboys, should i rack on top of more sugar and fruit? maybe raisins and apples?

thanks!

conrad

Check the forums for the following ideas:

1. Tea bag
2. Cinnamon/vodka extract
3. Back sweeten with unfermented cider


Those are my personal favorites fir adding body to a cider. There are many many methods for doing ask of these, so check some of the most read cider threads to find a method that works for you.

 

[vinylrooster]

http://brewingtv.com/episodes/2012/9/7/brewing-tv-episode-67-how-to-make-hard-cider.html

By the way, this video really helped me out when I did my first cider. He had some nice tricks for making your cider a little meaty-er

 

[ThorGodOfThunder]

Did you use actual cider or juice? Because I've made cider using basically the same recipe (I don't add any sugar though), and it is delicious. I've never like the taste of juice or concentrate.

 

[Con-Rad]

it's made with fresh pressed cider that i pressed myself. the juice itself was delicious and very sweet.

i don't want to back sweeten with sweet cider, as i was aiming for a dry, still cider with a good alcohol kick to it.

i'll check out those options, thanks. any other ideas?

conrad

 

[vinylrooster]

I didn't realize you had fresh pressed your own apples. I seem to remember reading that if you don't get a diverse (and proper) blend that your cider will become very one-note. Sorry but I don't have any experience using anything but already pressed cider. You might try letting people know what apples you started with and maybe what kind you can add?

 

[ThorGodOfThunder]

Hmmm. I use fresh cider from my own trees as well (its the only cider I can enjoy), but you do have to mix them, like Rooster said. Even if the cider tastes great right after pressing, its important to have a good mix when you want to ferment it.

My cider is a bit untraditional, but very popular. Its about 80% staymans, 10% asian pears, and 10% red delicious. Some people get really aggressive about what apples you have to use for cider, but I've found that after doing this for almost 20 years that balance is more important than the specific species you use.

 

[Cider123]

Ok, I started on this forum a few years ago with the thought of making cider (hence my forum name). I made some dry and some backsweetened a bit. All in all, after the first 12 or so ciders I decided that, you know what, cider is not that exciting.
This time of year you get a bunch of folks posting on making cider because of it being apple season in many places and it is a popular thought in the fall. I was one of them. When you make dry cider, you're like "Wow, this doesn't taste like what I expected. It is more like white wine" (which sucks BTW). When you backsweeten correctly and don't create bottle bombs, then after the first dozen ciders, you're sayin" "Hmmm, this is freakin' sweet. I think the novelty has officially worn off. Time for a beer" The next thought becomes, "Hey honey, you want to start drinking some of this freakin' cider?" Then eventually you think, "Ok, time to dump this cider to free up bottles for my beer".

Solution for me....start brewing beer. For you? Maybe you'll be hooked on yummy cider? Maybe not...

Uh oh, I just posted this in the Cider section. I'm about to get my @#^% handed to me, ain't I?

 

[vinylrooster]

Hmmm. I use fresh cider from my own trees as well (its the only cider I can enjoy), but you do have to mix them, like Rooster said. Even if the cider tastes great right after pressing, its important to have a good mix when you want to ferment it.

My cider is a bit untraditional, but very popular. Its about 80% staymans, 10% asian pears, and 10% red delicious. Some people get really aggressive about what apples you have to use for cider, but I've found that after doing this for almost 20 years that balance is more important than the specific species you use.

Thanks for clarifying thunder. I knew it was important, just had no experience myself.

 

[Con-Rad]

we had a pretty good combination of apples, there were gala, macoun, macintosh, and another one or two types. could have used some tart apples but we didn't have any.

i was thinking about spicing some of the cider, but not all of it... i'll watch those videos and do some thinking...

conrad

 

[Yooper]

it's made with fresh pressed cider that i pressed myself. the juice itself was delicious and very sweet.

i don't want to back sweeten with sweet cider, as i was aiming for a dry, still cider with a good alcohol kick to it.

i'll check out those options, thanks. any other ideas?

conrad

we had a pretty good combination of apples, there were gala, macoun, macintosh, and another one or two types. could have used some tart apples but we didn't have any.

i was thinking about spicing some of the cider, but not all of it... i'll watch those videos and do some thinking...

conrad

A good thing to try might be some acid blend and/or some powdered wine tannin. Both are cheap at a homebrew store.

I'd take out a little sample, and see if squeezing a bit of lemon into it helps (that's citric acid, one of the three acids in 'acid blend'). If you used mostly sweet apples, acid blend will probably provide some nice acidity to the cider.

Powdered tannin is nice in TINY amounts. I mean like 1/8 teaspoon for 6 gallons of cider. You could add some by dissolving it in some of the cider and stirring it gently into the cider. That provides some "bite" to the cider.

Another thing that can really help is adding some raisins to the cider. That will provide some fermentables and give body to the cider if you're looking for some body as well as depth of flavor. A pound of chopped raisins is plenty.

 

[blakelyc]

My experience with wine yeasts is that time can heal a lot. I had an ec-1118 cider last year that took 9 months to be drinkable. It is getting more apple-y as it ages, which I did not expect.

 

[Con-Rad]

well, this is what i ended up doing. hopefully it works out; i'll keep everyone posted.

for the batch fermented with EC1118, we chopped 3 or 4 apples and put them in a pot with a package of unsulfited raisins (about a pound?) and two cups dark brown sugar and enough water to cover it, boiled it to sanitize and melt the sugar, funneled into the carboy and racked onto that. i had airlock activity almost immediately after putting on the airlock!

for the batch with cote de blancs yeast, we boiled a package of cranberries and one large chopped orange and 2 cups dark brown sugar to sterilize, funneled it in, and racked ontop of that. also got airlock activity very soon.

for the naturally fermented batch (which tasted the worst and most bland), we're making an infusion of two chopped apples, cinnamon sticks, and cloves with vodka. we'll add that when the haze settles in that carboy.

we also bottled 1/2 gallon of the EC1118 plain, to see how it ages in a year or so.

thanks for the help! the tannin also sounds like a good idea, i'll keep it in mind if it needs it later on. what do you do with it, just mix it in right before you bottle?

conrad

 

[Yooper]

the tannin also sounds like a good idea, i'll keep it in mind if it needs it later on. what do you do with it, just mix it in right before you bottle?

conrad

I add it "whenever". Normally, if the cider or wine needs it, I add 1/8 teaspoon (to 6 gallons) and wait a day or so. Sample again, and add more if it needs it. In this case, "less is more" applies. It can give it a certain depth and "something" but is harsh and unpalatable when overdone. I also add acid blend like that, or lemon juice, as each apple crop is different and it's hard to know what each year's apples will need in advance.

 

[ThorGodOfThunder]

Next time you make cider, make sure you add some tart apples. The staymans I use aren't super tart, but since they make up the bulk of the pressing it evens out. Apples that rely on sweetness for flavor don't ferment well because when the sugar is gone there isn't much left to taste.

I'd strongly suggest you just let everything age for a few weeks at least, a few months if you can. I let my last cider age almost a year before I bottled it and it was amazing. Things mellow and flavors develop a lot with age when you ferment any kind of fruit. Don't decide now if you need to add things; decide in a few months.

What was your OG/FG?

Do you live near the south-east corner of PA, conrad? I'd be happy to share some of my cider with you (hard cider, that is. we don't have any plain cider left).

 

[Con-Rad]

Yea, i do wish we had some tarter apples in the mix. next year we'll have to make sure of that.

the cider has been in the carboys for 5 weeks, and they finished most of the fermenting after about 2 weeks, so it has been sitting for a little while, but not too long. i'll let them sit in secondary for two months or so then before tasting and bottling. unfortunately i did decide now to add things to it rather than let it sit, but i don't think i hurt anything...?

OG was "very sweet" and FG is "not sweet, and boozy"...next year i'll invest in a hydrometer. it tasted like 7-9% alcohol by my guess.

i wish i did! while i do go to PA one or two times a year, i live in CT. thanks for the offer though! i appreciate it.

what is the difference taste-wise between tannin and acid blend?

thanks!
conrad

 

[Yooper]

what is the difference taste-wise between tannin and acid blend?

thanks!
conrad

That's like asking "What is the difference between salt and eggplants?"

Two different substances, with two totally different qualities, and not even in the same family. Acid blend is a blend of three acids. Tannin is, well, tannin, usually derived from grape skins.