Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

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NeverDie said:
That's impressive on many levels. #1 that you seem to have unlimited patience. #2 that you can track how the taste of something has evolved over a 10 year timespan.
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The patience came from it being in the back of cabinet and forgotten for about 5 years after it finished. Very much an out of sight out of mind issue. The taste recollection comes from it being so ridiculously bad tasting that I should have dumped it but this is how it ended up in the back of the cabinet. Perhaps the impression of it improving is all in our heads but it certainly seems to be the case.
 
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The Last of the Mohicians. Started March 2006, Bottled Jan 2007. WOW THIS IS SMOOTH. I put about 3/4 of the Big Bottle in a Mini Keg Growler and I am Force Carbing it to see if it is better with bubbles.
 
Hello everybody. I have already brewed this recipe once and the result was excellent. However I seem to be having trouble with my second attempt. I have put everything in the fermenter about 3 weeks ago (17 of April). Starting gravity was 1.118. today I got a reading at 1.008. To my little experience this seems to soon. I didn't use the same honey but I don't think this makes any serious difference to the sg readings. On the other hand, my batch is still cloudy. Maybe it is because of the great amount of pollen in the honey, I don't know. I want to make half of it semi sweet and let the other half ferment till the end. My batch is 24 liters. I am planning on pouring some metabisoulphite after siphoning half to another bucket. Any suggestions on the amount of meta? I hope it will clear in the fridge after a few days. We will see. Any advice is highly valued!
 
I got hooked on mead with the Nordic Viking Blod mead which has hibiscus and hops in it. So for my first time at making mead I decided on trying JAOM, problem is that I'm not getting all the foaming action and such as people have said. I went with a 5 gallon batch and followed the directions to a T except for the yeast part. I did go buy brand new yeast and used three of the packets for the 5 gallon batch. That should have been 6.25 tsp of yeast but I didn't get every little yeast cell out of the package. I'm wondering if the fruit have made a cap on top and if I should swirl or prod it around a bit? Any advice would be great!!!
 
Well it has been in the carboy almost a week now and I have yet to see more than just minimal foaming and have not seen any action on the airlock.

So the fruit has formed a "cover" layer and i'm wondering if that might be the issue or is it just that slow or did I muck it up somehow?
 
Crazy Chemist said:
I got hooked on mead with the Nordic Viking Blod mead which has hibiscus and hops in it. So for my first time at making mead I decided on trying JAOM, problem is that I'm not getting all the foaming action and such as people have said. I went with a 5 gallon batch and followed the directions to a T except for the yeast part. I did go buy brand new yeast and used three of the packets for the 5 gallon batch. That should have been 6.25 tsp of yeast but I didn't get every little yeast cell out of the package. I'm wondering if the fruit have made a cap on top and if I should swirl or prod it around a bit? Any advice would be great!!!
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mead just doesn't foam the way beer does. can you see teeny little bubbles along the inside edge? if you sniff the air lock does it smell alcoholic? how long has it been fermenting? swirl if you want to, or stir the fruit down. or leave it alone to get to work by it self
 
I can see tiny bubbles inside. I gave it a little swirl and the airlock came to life so I think the fruit is just acting as a cover. Once I saw that it was working I left it be. I put it in the car boy on 5/5/19.
 
amber-ale said:
mead just doesn't foam the way beer does. can you see teeny little bubbles along the inside edge? if you sniff the air lock does it smell alcoholic? how long has it been fermenting? swirl if you want to, or stir the fruit down. or leave it alone to get to work by it self
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Thank you for the help!
 
the only other bit of info is that if your fruit is all on top and exposed to the air in the fermenter, you may get mold growth on the fruit (or so the winemakers say).
So you may wish to do what they do and occasionally stir the fruit down so it gets saturated in the alcoholic proto-mead /must.

I have never had a problem, but my fruit often sinks or is just under the surface of the liquid, and therefore protected.

Anybody else have experience with moldy fruit?
 
Yooper said:
Ancient Orange Mead (by Joe Mattioli)
1 gallon batch

3 1/2 lbs Clover or your choice honey or blend (will finish sweet)
1 Large orange (later cut in eights or smaller rind and all)
1 small handful of raisins (25 if you count but more or less ok)
1 stick of cinnamon
1 whole clove ( or 2 if you like - these are potent critters)
optional (a pinch of nutmeg and allspice )( very small )
1 teaspoon of Fleishmann’s bread yeast ( now don't get holy on me--- after all this is an ancient mead and that's all we had back then)
Balance water to one gallon

Process:
Use a clean 1 gallon carboy
Dissolve honey in some warm water and put in carboy
Wash orange well to remove any pesticides and slice in eights --add orange (you can push em through opening big boy -- rinds included -- its ok for this mead -- take my word for it -- ignore the experts)

Put in raisins, clove, cinnamon stick, any optional ingredients and fill to 3 inches from the top with cold water. ( need room for some foam -- you can top off with more water after the first few day frenzy)

Shake the heck out of the jug with top on, of course. This is your sophisticated aeration process.

When at room temperature in your kitchen, put in 1 teaspoon of bread yeast. ( No you don't have to rehydrate it first-- the ancients didn't even have that word in their vocabulary-- just put it in and give it a gentle swirl or not)(The yeast can fight for their own territory)

Install water airlock. Put in dark place. It will start working immediately or in an hour. (Don't use grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away in the 90's)( Wait 3 hours before you panic or call me) After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Let them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to smell every once in a while.

Racking --- Don't you dare
additional feeding --- NO NO
More stirring or shaking -- Your not listening, don't touch

After 2 months and maybe a few days it will slow down to a stop and clear all by itself. (How about that) (You are not so important after all) Then you can put a hose in with a small cloth filter on the end into the clear part and siphon off the golden nectar. If you wait long enough even the oranges will sink to the bottom but I never waited that long. If it is clear it is ready. You don't need a cold basement. It does better in a kitchen in the dark. (Like in a cabinet) likes a little heat (70-80). If it didn't work out... you screwed up and didn't read my instructions (or used grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away) . If it didn't work out then take up another hobby. Mead is not for you. It is too complicated.
If you were successful, which I am 99% certain you will be, then enjoy your mead. When you get ready to make different mead you will probably have to unlearn some of these practices I have taught you, but hey--- This recipe and procedure works with these ingredients so don't knock it. It was your first mead. It was my tenth. Sometimes, even the experts can forget all they know and make good ancient mead.
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Thank you for posting this, I tried the bread yeast recipe and also tried a Lalvin D47 recipe. Both turned out wonderful. The only thing I might change on the next batch’s would be to use less of the orange rind when fermenting.
Cheers to you all!

2ccuikk.jpg
 
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Daledownsouth said:
Thank you for posting this, I tried the bread yeast recipe and also tried a Lalvin D47 recipe. Both turned out wonderful. The only thing I might change on the next batch’s would be to use less of the orange rind when fermenting.
Cheers to you all!

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How old is it?
 
The 2 batch’s turned out fine and quite drinkable, but the navel oranges used in the recipe had very thick rinds that came on a bit strong in the flavor. Next batch’s I will be using a mix of navel and tangerines with less rinds.
Overall a great recipe and is drinkable after a few months with the 71B (I stated D47 originally please disregard) yeast but really shines after it sits for a year.
 
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I sampled the batches of JAOM that I started in March. The ones I made with blood mandarin oranges had the best orange taste (much better than plain Florida naval oranges). The one made with Costco clover honey turned out excellent. The one made with Costco RAW honey turned out much sweeter. That said, there was surprising variability among the 5 different one gallon batches. It seems that each batch, once isolated, is destined to be different.

I racked them and put them into storage and will sample them again in 6 months, or maybe 18 months.
 
Hey all--I'm very new to this but am interested in this recipe since it uses bread yeast. I am a Peace Corps volunteer with access to unlimited raw honey, but things like raisins are difficult to find in my village. I am wondering if I can make this mead as described without using raisins or orange peel? In other words, can I make this recipe successfully without the orange and raisins?

Things I DO have: ground spices (clove, cinnamon), and black tea bags for tannin content (could I throw in a tea bag to sub for the raisins?).

I apologize if this has been asked but I don't have reliable enough service to search through all 76 pages of this thread!

I am really thankful to you all who may help, and I look forward to learning!
 
Methinks the raisins are a nutrient of sorts, but could be mistaken.........So the tea won't help ya'.

Yes, meads are made successfully without orange peels and whatnot............Many more recipes out there other than this one.........;)


What fruits DO you have?
 
Stealthcruiser said:
Methinks the raisins are a nutrient of sorts, but could be mistaken.........So the tea won't help ya'.

Yes, meads are made successfully without orange peels and whatnot............Many more recipes out there other than this one.........;)


What fruits DO you have?
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Hey, thanks for the response! I can get fruits if absolutely necessary, but it is quite a journey. The only fruit I can find in my village are bananas. What I know about mead I've learned from Katz's "The Art of Fermentation", and his process seems to be adding water and raw honey at a ratio of 4:1, shaking daily and leaving cloth-covered for 7-9 days before transferring to an airlock. That's what I've done so far! I want to learn what the process looks and smells and tastes like in its basic form before I move onto more complex recipes.
 
Ryan Miller said:
Hey all--I'm very new to this but am interested in this recipe since it uses bread yeast. I am a Peace Corps volunteer with access to unlimited raw honey, but things like raisins are difficult to find in my village. I am wondering if I can make this mead as described without using raisins or orange peel? In other words, can I make this recipe successfully without the orange and raisins?

Things I DO have: ground spices (clove, cinnamon), and black tea bags for tannin content (could I throw in a tea bag to sub for the raisins?).

I apologize if this has been asked but I don't have reliable enough service to search through all 76 pages of this thread!

I am really thankful to you all who may help, and I look forward to learning!
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The raisins are for nutrients more than anything. You could probably use grapes for the same result. Another option for yeast nutrient is to take a couple of teaspoons of yeast and boil it to kill it and break it down. The resulting broken down yeast cells provide nutrients for the live ones you will add in accordance with the recipe. This all assumes you don't have access to commercial yeast nutrient or energizer
 
The answer to your question is yes I believe JAOM would work without the raisins or orange.

Other citrus fruit works, grapefruit or lime. The idea about the boiled tsp of bread yeast is a great one and would suffice. Although raisins do not only provide a little nutrient do impart some flavor as well.

What you will get is a more traditional mead vs. a true JOAM but should definately work. Allow it to age for a bit and you should be pleased.
 
Ryan - It might help to view JAOM in its parts and then re-construct based on what is available to you.

One take on the component parts includes: Honey, water, yeast + flavor (Honey, Oranges & spices) & yeast nutrient.
  • Honey - at a sugar level that will finish sweet. The pollination source can provide some flavor. Sounds like you have that.
  • Flavor - JAOM uses Oranges, which add some acid but primarily flavor. In FL, the orange blossom honey + orange = winner. You may have a similar combo in your area.
  • Flavor - Spices x 2 - JAOM uses for cinnamon & cloves (feel free to change based on what's locally available.)
  • Yeast Nutrient - JAOM uses Raisins, you received a good suggestion on a substitute. This will help eliminate any "industrial notes" in the flavor. Nutrient starved meads have a chemical note that diminishes over time, lots of time.
  • Bread Yeast & Water.

It sounds like you have honey, water, yeast and yeast nutrient (Suggestion above).
The rest can be mixed based on what flavors you have available, enjoy and believe will complement each other.

If there aren't fruits available that you like - skip that and go with spices.

It's a fast making recipe so try, try and try again. Good luck.
 
The oranges and a few of the raisins have been dropped in my batch for a few weeks now, so I plan on bottling this coming week. I don't have a link or a picture, but I found sparkling lemonade at aldi that comes in a bigger flip top bottle (clear bottle, maybe a liter? 750ml?). Will these work for mead? (or storing anything long term, I have some cider coming along as well). Ive only ever used flip tops for kombucha, which doesn't last very long in this house.
 
I have 7 of those bottles. They are .750L. It takes 5 per gallon and they will stay sealed. They wil not, however, allow the slight O2 exchange that cork does, so I'm not sure if they will allow proper long term aging.
 
Hmm, well I’m going to give em a shot. Probably buy two and see how it goes. Rest will get crown caps in beer bottles anyway, and long term might be a stretch for me anyways.
 
Blacksmith1 said:
I have 7 of those bottles. They are .750L. It takes 5 per gallon and they will stay sealed. They wil not, however, allow the slight O2 exchange that cork does, so I'm not sure if they will allow proper long term aging.
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they should age OK. I don't think the bit of 02 is essential for mead as it is a heavy red wine. I cork my mead but for bottles I plan to give away I also do a wax (actually hot glue gun glue, comes off much easier than way) seal. I have never been able to tell a difference between those waxed and those not.
 
Good to know. I have one of those bottles filled and waiting as an experiment next to a corked one. Both with the same mead.
In february they hit the 1 year mark an d Ifind out for certain.
 
Hello all, need some advice please!

I racked my JAOM to secondary after 10 weeks - when the fruit dropped and the mead was fairly clear. However my secondary didn't clear after another 3 weeks, despite being in my attic at temperatures of between 4 and 10 degrees C. I racked again last night and degassed a little, in the hope that I'll see it clearing more, but I'm worried that the large headspace could cause problems.

There's about 4 litres in a 5 litre carboy. There is some degassing going on, so I'm fairly confident that there's a CO2 blanket on the mead.

Should I give it another week or 2? Add finnings? Or just bottle? Buy the way, the specific gravity has been a consistent 0.998 for a few weeks.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
begbie1976 said:
Hello all, need some advice please!

I racked my JAOM to secondary after 10 weeks - when the fruit dropped and the mead was fairly clear. However my secondary didn't clear after another 3 weeks, despite being in my attic at temperatures of between 4 and 10 degrees C. I racked again last night and degassed a little, in the hope that I'll see it clearing more, but I'm worried that the large headspace could cause problems.

There's about 4 litres in a 5 litre carboy. There is some degassing going on, so I'm fairly confident that there's a CO2 blanket on the mead.

Should I give it another week or 2? Add finnings? Or just bottle? Buy the way, the specific gravity has been a consistent 0.998 for a few weeks.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
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An SG of 0.998 is low for JAOM. Once of the characteristics of JAOM is the residual sugars. So there are other things other than not clearing going on with this batch.

Anyhow, if it was degassing you probably have some CO2 in the head space but that will eventually dissipate. Mead is more tolerant of oxygen than beer but that much head space would make me nervous as well. I would add a little sparkaloid to try and get it clear as soon as possible and then bottle.
 
What kind of other things could be going on? My JAOM isn't exactly to recipe - I couldn't get fleischmann'bread yeast, so I used a local supermarket bread yeast. I also used a UK gallon carboy with the 3.5 lbs of honey - so essentially a more diluted must. Could these two factors result in a low FG?

The sample that I took when racking didn't taste too dry but was very orangey with slight spice notes. Maybe the flavours help to mask the dryness.
 
Normally a JAOM starts at about 1.125 and finishes about 1.020. The residual sweetness balances out the bitterness of the orange pith. I find that anything under 1.010 is too bitter to drink.

The process is typically 90-100 days. It'll clear on its own at room temp. No need for fining agents or cold crashing.
 
I know this is an older thread, but I made this mead and wanted to report in. I had a beekeeper friend, Karl who sent me his supply of honey before he died of cancer. I wanted to make a mead in his memory and have zero experience with mead. Been brewing beer for around six years, ten gallon batches, all grain. Also, did a few batches of skeeter pee that turned out pretty good.

Anyway, on Thanksgiving Day, Karl was on my mind so, I made this mead. Bottled it on January 25th. It is now very clear. I made three gallons and bottled and corked it (bought the corker just for this project). There was some left over after filling all my bottles and I put that in a mason jar and put it in the fridge.

This weekend, we had some friends over and we toasted Karl and sampled what was in the mason jar. I'm very impressed and once this ages a little it will be fantastic. I am now a beekeeper and will be producing my own honey, so this is a good start to my mead making.

Thanks Yooper for helping me honor my friend. Here is a pic of one of my bottles that will age very well....

83802913_10157803483132296_926831904999604224_n.jpg
 
Casey- that depends on your tastes, some people like real dry, some real sweet. This recipe seems like it is front loaded with fermentables, so it is very possible that the yeast that you are using will conk out before the sugar is gone. 1.010-15 is about the right spot for me.
Sugar syrup would be the easiest, 2-3 tablespoons per gal, perhaps with some sorbate to prevent bombs in your closet.
Variables- you, your selection of yeast, type of honey/fermentables, temp profile
I can suggest that you backsweeten a little less than you think you need/taste for two reasons:
1. As wine ages, fruit wine anyway, they are typically pretty rough for at least a couple months. During this time, the harsher compounds are being shredded, and the rough alcoholic, tannic, parts solvent turns into wine. After this happens you may end up with a wine sweeter than you like.
1. Easy to put sugar in, hard to take sugar out- you can sweeten at any time, even in the glass
 

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