Is this pellicle?

[kevinch417]

This is my first post in this forum, though I frequently find myself reading through the different threads.

I have an Irish stout sitting in the secondary fermenter. It was in the primary for 2 and a half weeks. It has been in the secondary for about two weeks (I plan to bottle it this weekend).

I keep this at my friend's house. Earlier this week my friend texted me a photo and a video of the fermenter. I've attached the photo, but the video file won't upload.

Reading through other forums I've seen that pellicle makes beer turn sour, but since this is the first time I've seen this (this is my 5th beer), I have never encountered it before and am unfamiliar with it. I've noticed most of the beers people have photos of are sour beers to begin with and they aren't worried about it. I've also noticed each person had their beers in fermenters for a longer stretch of time than the basic 1 week/2 week fermentation.

Will this be a bigger problem for stout? is this drinkable? what should I expect? will this get inside the bottles?

 

[flars]

Yes, your beer is infected. Take a sample from below the pellicle. The stout may be a little sour, but a may be a good sour stout you will want to bottle.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Congratualtions! You have a pellicle. Let it rideeeeee

 

[kevinch417]

Yep, and in addition to that a pellicle is a bad indicator of just about anything other than there might be a significant amount of air getting in your fermenter. It does help to protect over exposure to air if your airlock goes dry, but that's about it.

I saw this in another thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/do-i-need-wait-pellicle-fall-481991/)

Could this have resulted from their not being enough water in the airlock? The lid not being fully sealed?

 

[BGBC]

It's definitely a pellicle and infected with something you did not intend to be there. Difficult to say what exact organism(s) are causing it.

Take a sample. See how it tastes. It won't harm you.

It was likely infected while racking to secondary. Either the racking cane or fermenter may not have been completely sanitized, allowing these bugs to get in. The infection is present throughout the beer at this point (the surface pellicle is just the bugs on the surface, but they would be present in the rest of the beer too).

Several options:
- Dump it - if it tastes really bad, if you don't like sour/funky beers, or if you really want to drink the beer as you intended it to be.
- Rack from beneath the pellicle and bottle - you'll want to be careful about gravity readings here, as many bugs can cause attenuation well above normal sacch fermentations. You don't want to end up with bottle bombs.
- Let it ride - If you like the way it's tasting, it might even improve with time. You can also pitch additional souring cultures either from commercial yeast or bottle dregs, if that's something that interests you.

 

[kevinch417]

- Rack from beneath the pellicle and bottle - you'll want to be careful about gravity readings here, as many bugs can cause attenuation well above normal sacch fermentations. You don't want to end up with bottle bombs.
- Let it ride - If you like the way it's tasting, it might even improve with time. You can also pitch additional souring cultures either from commercial yeast or bottle dregs, if that's something that interests you.

Thank you for taking the time to respond with some helpful advice.

Is there somewhere you could point me further on racking beneath a pellicle and how to avoid bottle bombs? I am slowly learning about brewing in more detail with each new brew, but this being my 5th brew, I am still a total novice.

If I like the way it's tasting and want to let it wait longer, will the pellicle drop eventually? How will I know I have waited a good amount of time without having to repeatedly open it up to take a sample?

 

[twistyboy]

check this, brett aging in barrel : https://www.facebook.com/brasseried...0821768985492/793596157374713/?type=1&theater

 

[BGBC]

Thank you for taking the time to respond with some helpful advice.

Is there somewhere you could point me further on racking beneath a pellicle and how to avoid bottle bombs? I am slowly learning about brewing in more detail with each new brew, but this being my 5th brew, I am still a total novice.

If I like the way it's tasting and want to let it wait longer, will the pellicle drop eventually? How will I know I have waited a good amount of time without having to repeatedly open it up to take a sample?

By racking from under the pellicle, I just mean rack like you normally would, but stick the end of the siphon under the pellicle. You want to avoid siphoning any trub and any of the pellicle itself. Again, you can't really leave the infection behind, but it might help. If you do bottle soon, I'd keep the bottles in a separate container, to be safe and probably drink them quickly.

Depending on what is in your brew, if you decide to leave it, it might continue to slowly drop in gravity over an extended period of time. Personally, I'd sample and take a gravity reading now. If you like the way it tastes and decide not to dump it, I'd let it sit for a couple months and taking another gravity reading. If the gravity is stable over that period of time, it's probably safe to bottle.

Don't worry about the pellicle dropping. It may or it may not. I've never had a pellicle drop on one of my sour/funky beers.

 

[DrummoRC]

As for Bottle Bombs .. Someone I respect told me that a beer with a final gravity of 1.012 or lower will never be bottle bombs.

Since Bottle Bombs are created by the beer continuing to ferment in the bottle that have too much sugar left for the yeast to eat. so make sure your fermentation is complete and don't over prime the bottles.

I am luck and never had a bottle bomb but have had many Foam Overs which might have become bombs but never made it that far.

I am not the most experience brewer so I am sure someone can be a little more descriptive then I. But hope this helps!

 

[BGBC]

As for Bottle Bombs .. Someone I respect told me that a beer with a final gravity of 1.012 or lower will never be bottle bombs.

Since Bottle Bombs are created by the beer continuing to ferment in the bottle that have too much sugar left for the yeast to eat. so make sure your fermentation is complete and don't over prime the bottles.

I am luck and never had a bottle bomb but have had many Foam Overs which might have become bombs but never made it that far.

I am not the most experience brewer so I am sure someone can be a little more descriptive then I. But hope this helps!

I'm glad you respect that person, but I wouldn't trust that advice.

The general rule of thumb is that each point of gravity drop will yield ~0.5 vol CO2. Since we're talking about an infection here, some bugs can cause a beer to super attenuate (1.000 or lower). The problem is you don't know exactly how far this beer will drop, but a sour beer at 1.012 would likely have a ways to go before stabilizing. 12 gravity points would very likely cause bottle bombs if it ends up dropping to 1.000 (or even 1.004).

On top of that, if you're bottling, you're adding additional priming sugar so you'd have to take that into account as well.

 

[fermentology]

Thank you for taking the time to respond with some helpful advice.

Is there somewhere you could point me further on racking beneath a pellicle and how to avoid bottle bombs? I am slowly learning about brewing in more detail with each new brew, but this being my 5th brew, I am still a total novice.

If I like the way it's tasting and want to let it wait longer, will the pellicle drop eventually? How will I know I have waited a good amount of time without having to repeatedly open it up to take a sample?

The best way to prevent bottle bombs would be to measure your gravity, then wait a few weeks and measure again. If there is not drop then you're probably safe to bottle. You could also target low end carbonation in the event that you spark extra fermentation again and your gravity drops a little more.

If you l like the way it's tasting and the gravity is stable, there is no need to wait longer. Nothing says extra time will make the beer better and exposure to oxygen could hurt it. Some pellicles will drop, some will not.

Your beer may not be sour and may never sour, it all depends on your type of infection. If its just Brett it won't become "sour," you'll need bacteria for that.

Word of advice. There is usually no need to rack to a secondary fermenter, unless you're planning on adding extras to your beer and collecting yeast. It's just one more way to accidentally infect your beer.

 

[dantheman13]

I saw this in another thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/do-i-need-wait-pellicle-fall-481991/)

Could this have resulted from their not being enough water in the airlock? The lid not being fully sealed?

If you have a decent level of temperature shift from day-night cycles, a vacuum will form during the down temps and cause air to suck back through the airlock. With three piece airlocks, water gets sucked back into the fermenter as well. With S airlocks, the water levels will be skewed towards the fermenter side. With a lot of daily temp shifts, you can get some oxygen exposure.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Let it ride until summer. You could probably let it go even further and let the bugs in your beer really give it some good taste. I bet you would be surprised with it.