Conditioning with or without carbonating

[csantoni]

I’m currently fermenting a Weihenstephaner Helles clone recipe that calls for the following ferment/condition/lager schedule:

Ferment at 50F to FG
Transfer to secondary (for me, a keg) and condition at 45F for 10 days
Lager at 32F for 30 days
Carbonate

I don’t have the ability to do the true lagering so I’ll be keeping it at 45F for 3 to 4 weeks as I’ve done for my other light lagers. My question is whether there is likely to be a significant difference if I carbonate as soon as it is in the keg at 45F or if I should condition and “lager” first and only put it on gas when it has matured. I usually put light lagers on gas right away but I’m curious if there’s any benefit to waiting.

 

[Dland]

I don't see any benefit in waiting, brew will condition just as well carbed as not, and then you will be assured keg is sealed w pressure. Also, it will be ready to drink once conditioned.

If you want to take it to the next level, transfer to keg just before brew has reached final gravity, seal keg ( w a blast of CO) and beer will naturally carb as it conditions. I usually rack when there is an estimated .004-008 left to ferment, or when fermentation bubbles slow down but have not completely stopped, if one can not easily take a gravity sample. This is also the best way time to rack and do a successful diacytl rest, when there is still some yeast activity.

No worries if timing is not perfect, if it ends up under carbed, force carb it some. If it is over carbed, let some gas out or use extra pressure to serve already tapped kegs.

 

[csantoni]

Yeah, I usually spund at about 10 psi in the fermentor for the last few points of gravity. For this recipe I want to follow their process as close as I can the first time. If I like it I’ll probably tweak a bit on the next batch based on what seems to work for me on other recipes.

 

[ClaudiusB]

I’m currently fermenting a Weihenstephaner Helles clone recipe that calls for the following ferment/condition/lager schedule:

Ferment at 50F to FG
Transfer to secondary (for me, a keg) and condition at 45F for 10 days
Lager at 32F for 30 days
Carbonate

I don’t have the ability to do the true lagering so I’ll be keeping t at 45F for 3 to 4 weeks as I’ve done for my other light lagers. My question is whether there is likely to be a significant difference if I carbonate as soon as it is in the keg at 45F or if I should condition and “lager” first and only put it on gas when it has matured. I usually put light lagers on gas right away but I’m curious if there’s any benefit to waiting.

Which of the two Helles did you brew, the original Helles or the newer version Helles?

 

[csantoni]

Which of the two Helles did you brew, the original Helles or the newer version Helles?

It’s just called Helles Lager. It’s from the Modern Lager Beer book by the guys from Jack’s Abbey.

 

[redrocker652002]

I would love to see that recipe. I had a Helles by them and it was really good. I have looked around but cannot find the recipe. If you could point me in the right direction I would sure appreciate it.

 

[sibelman]

use extra pressure to serve already tapped kegs.

Now there's an interesting idea -- not sure I ever would've thought of that.

 

[csantoni]

I would love to see that recipe. I had a Helles by them and it was really good. I have looked around but cannot find the recipe. If you could point me in the right direction I would sure appreciate it.

It’s from this book Modern Lager Beer

 

[day_trippr]

If you want to take it to the next level, transfer to keg just before brew has reached final gravity, seal keg ( w a blast of CO) and beer will naturally carb as it conditions.

And if done with a spunding valve set to the appropriate chart pressure one can start a couple points early with no concern about overcarbing...

Cheers!

 

[SonomaBrewer]

Bottom line, CO2 is always your friend after fermentation.

 

[ClaudiusB]

It’s just called Helles Lager. It’s from the Modern Lager Beer book by the guys from Jack’s Abbey.

Thanks.
If you brewed the original Weihenstephan Helles, called in the US Original Premium the recipe should call for one type of hops and grain. The newer Weihenstephan Helles uses three kinds of hops and a single malt. The original is decoction mashed and the newer Helles is step-mashed.

 

[Dland]

Now there's an interesting idea -- not sure I ever would've thought of that.

 

[csantoni]

Thanks.
If you brewed the original Weihenstephan Helles, called in the US Original Premium the recipe should call for one type of hops and grain. The newer Weihenstephan Helles uses three kinds of hops and a single malt. The original is decoction mashed and the newer Helles is step-mashed.

Recipe has three hops, a single malt, and two decoctions so it doesn’t match either of your options. I don’t think the recipe is relevant to the question of carbonation during or after maturation in any case.

 

[csantoni]

picture

I’m incredibly jealous of that amount of space for beer.

 

[johnsonpvb17]

I don't see any benefit in waiting, brew will condition just as well carbed as not, and then you will be assured keg is sealed w pressure. Also, it will be ready to drink once conditioned.

If you want to take it to the next level, transfer to keg just before brew has reached final gravity, seal keg ( w a blast of CO) and beer will naturally carb as it conditions. I usually rack when there is an estimated .004-008 left to ferment, or when fermentation bubbles slow down but have not completely stopped, if one can not easily take a gravity sample. This is also the best way time to rack and do a successful diacytl rest, when there is still some yeast activity.

No worries if timing is not perfect, if it ends up under carbed, force carb it some. If it is over carbed, let some gas out or use extra pressure to serve already tapped kegs.

After reading hundreds of posts on this general subject after stepping up to a five gallon all grain routine of kegging after two weeks in the fermenter, letting it sit in the keg for 2 to14 weeks depending on style at 68 to 70F, and then cool to 40 F and force carbonate for two weeks, yours is the first that makes sense to me as it seems to dovetail with my planned routine.

My question is, is your method of naturally carbing in a keg possible at a higher than refrigerated storage temperatures, say 68 to 70 F? Or does it need to be at a lower refrigerated temp?

(I've done a 100+ bottles with fizz drops sitting at +/- 70 F and that seems to work fine.)

Thanks,

 

[Dland]

If one is naturally carbonating by letting yeast finish off in kegs, that would be done at whatever temperature you are fermenting at, or slightly higher, if D resting a lager at same time as carbonating.

If one is force carbing, it can be done at room temp, but works more quickly and lower required CO2 pressure at lower temps as CO2 dissolves more easily in cold liquids.

 

[johnsonpvb17]

Thanks for your help on this. The best benefit you provided, aside from saving a little CO2, not having to mess with a prime process, and maybe better tasting naturally carbonated beer, is better turn around of the single GF Fermenter. Well worth my $29.99 annual HBT subscription today!