Is there no such thing as premium bottling equipment?

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TxBigHops

TxBigHops

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First off, I don't keg. I only bottle, by choice. No plans to change that anytime real soon. But what's the deal with those chincy plastic spigots and bottling wands??? In almost every other area of homebrewing there are high quality options for those willing to spend a little more money. Why not for bottling?

The problem is, I get a small air bubble at the beginning of every single bottle that I fill. It's either coming in through the spigot, the bottling wand, or the hose connecting the two. Everything looks snug, there are no leaks, and after that initial bubble the fill seems to be bubble-free. I don't mind replacing all these pieces, but why can't I do so with something of a higher quality? I've searched a ton of equipment sellers, and they all sell what appear to be the same thing. If anyone out there can point me to some that are of a higher quality, please do so and I will be greatly appreciative.
 
Can't answer your question but I'm a bottler-by-choice too and have always wondered the same thing. I'd be interested to hear if there's something better out there also.
 
Counter pressure bottle fillers? I'm not sure what you are looking for as far as "premium" goes? What is your current bottling setup/process?
 
snow16 said:
Can't answer your question but I'm a bottler-by-choice too and have always wondered the same thing. I'd be interested to hear if there's something better out there also.
Click to expand...

So snow, do you get the same little bubble at the beginning of each bottle also?
 
cilestiok said:
Counter pressure bottle fillers? I'm not sure what you are looking for as far as "premium" goes? What is your current bottling setup/process?
Click to expand...

I have what I assume to be the standard bottling bucket with a plastic spigot and plastic spring loaded bottling wand. Outside of those who bottle from their kegs using CO2, I'm not aware of any other method. If there's something else, please clue me in. What I'm looking for is a higher quality replacement for the plastic spigot and bottling wand that doesn't leak air into each one of my bottles.
 
I use a standard plastic bottling bucket with plastic spigot. Cut a 2-3 in piece of tubing and attach to the spigot. Open the valve and fill the bottle, & shut valve when full. Simple, but works great. I always do this with a brew buddy. Once you get in a routine, you get good at not under or over filling, and avoiding any air bubbles. ... Definitely not a "premium bottling equipment" solution, but it works well.
 
TxBigHops said:
So snow, do you get the same little bubble at the beginning of each bottle also?
Click to expand...

Yes, every time. Been bottling beer for a long time and I've always had it - and I've always thought the whole standard bottling set-up was a little cheap and flimsy.

But to be honest, I really don't think it has ever been detrimental to my beer. I think it takes a lot more than that to oxidize your beer, and unless you're flushing everything with CO2 and using a fancy beer gun (neither one of which are options for me right now) - there's really no way to prevent absolutely every trace of oxygen from being introduced.

I'm a bit on the OCD side and it drives me crazy more than anything. I've had my fair share of off-flavors in this hobby but nothing that I can trace back to oxidation at bottling.
 
So you guys that are bottling, like my self, have you noticed that you get a LOT of CO2 discharge while bottling? Only reason I'm asking is because I am thinking it might be the cause of this air leak/air bubble being discussed. I've recently switched up my bottling routine and now am filling bottles from a different elevation. i.e. the bottling bucket is higher than my bottles on the floor. Ever since this change I've noticed a LOT of CO2 discharge through out the whole bottling session. I can see it through the bottling hose, it gets pushed into the bottles, inevitably I need to circle back to the 1st 12 or so bottles to top off again... Which has me wondering if free fall of liquid inside tubing has an affect on pressure... or perhaps it's just simply the head pressure of the volume of fluid in the bottling bucket which would ultimately let more CO2 escape as it is drained into each bottle? I dunno but it's really the only difference I can account for. Sounds crazy I know but it should have a simple answer I would think
 
snow16 said:
Yes, every time. Been bottling beer for a long time and I've always had it - and I've always thought the whole standard bottling set-up was a little cheap and flimsy.

But to be honest, I really don't think it has ever been detrimental to my beer. I think it takes a lot more than that to oxidize your beer, and unless you're flushing everything with CO2 and using a fancy beer gun (neither one of which are options for me right now) - there's really no way to prevent absolutely every trace of oxygen from being introduced.

I'm a bit on the OCD side and it drives me crazy more than anything. I've had my fair share of off-flavors in this hobby but nothing that I can trace back to oxidation at bottling.
Click to expand...

Thank you! This alone gives me some comfort, to know that it's common to others using this equipment. You're right, I'm not flushing each bottle with CO2, so this bubble is only a bit more exposure than the surface of the beer as it's rising in the bottle. Very unlikely that the bubble alone is causing oxidation. But like you, I too am a little OCD. It just seems that these two crappy $2.99 parts could be upgraded to some higher quality $8.99 parts, or something thereabouts... Ya know?
 
well for a beer gun, you still need a CO2 tank, which usually there is no point in owning unless you have a full kegging system. I got a beer gun to bottle some of my beer from kegs and have a long shelf life (it works great). But I wouldnt consider it a "premium" option for bottlers...more like an accessory for keggers

best thing I did to improve my regular bottling process was to use my dishwasher as my sanitizer/bottle rack/drip tray and hooked the bottle wand straight to my spigot on the bucket with like 1" of tubing for 1-handed bottle filling with no spills
 
m00ps said:
well for a beer gun, you still need a CO2 tank, which usually there is no point in owning unless you have a full kegging system. I got a beer gun to bottle some of my beer from kegs and have a long shelf life (it works great). But I wouldnt consider it a "premium" option for bottlers...more like an accessory for keggers

best thing I did to improve my regular bottling process was to use my dishwasher as my sanitizer/bottle rack/drip tray and hooked the bottle wand straight to my spigot on the bucket with like 1" of tubing for 1-handed bottle filling with no spills
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know why people are bringing up beer guns and counter pressure bottle fillers??? I guess they only read the title and not my actual post. I'm just looking for a higher quality spigot and a higher quality bottling wand. Probably no such thing, or even a need. Although I may look into rigging up a SS ball valve in place of the spigot. Gotta take some measurements first as it will probably require a different sized hole in the bottling bucket. And a new dip tube. I use a piece of pvc pipe on the back of my current spigot, and only leave about 4 ounces of beer in the bottom of the bucket.

I also bottle over the open dishwasher. Second best improvement (after the pvc dip tube) I ever made in my bottling procedure!
 
Why are you set on using a plastic bucket and plastic spigot? Just get a stainless pot and stainless spigot. Boil water in the pot to sanitize. Don't know how much more premium you're trying to get? Buy a super thick, triclad bottom pot with all triclover fittings?

I use a stainless pot and stainless racking cane. I start the siphon with a turkey baster/sample thief then attach the bottling wand to the end of the tubing. I don't see the need to bother with spigots and valves especially since they are more difficult to sanitize.

I suppose you could get a stainless or glass tube to replace the acrylic on the bottling wand.
 
JLeuck64 said:
So you guys that are bottling, like my self, have you noticed that you get a LOT of CO2 discharge while bottling? Only reason I'm asking is because I am thinking it might be the cause of this air leak/air bubble being discussed. I've recently switched up my bottling routine and now am filling bottles from a different elevation. i.e. the bottling bucket is higher than my bottles on the floor. Ever since this change I've noticed a LOT of CO2 discharge through out the whole bottling session. I can see it through the bottling hose, it gets pushed into the bottles, inevitably I need to circle back to the 1st 12 or so bottles to top off again... Which has me wondering if free fall of liquid inside tubing has an affect on pressure... or perhaps it's just simply the head pressure of the volume of fluid in the bottling bucket which would ultimately let more CO2 escape as it is drained into each bottle? I dunno but it's really the only difference I can account for. Sounds crazy I know but it should have a simple answer I would think
Click to expand...

So, you're saying that you fill all your bottles first, and when you go to cap them, the level of beer in the first 12 bottles has noticebly dropped? I wouldn't notice this because I fill about 12 bottles, then stop and cap them, then go back to filling, continuing to rotate tasks until I'm done. I like this little break in the action, plus my counter next to the bucket only has room for around a dozen bottles at a time. But I did read in another thread where someone suggested that the little bubble in the wand was CO2 offgassing, and not air at all, so you could have something there.
 
I wish there were better, more durable, bottling buckets, wands and especially spigots. At least a spigot I can entirely take apart to soak every bit of it in pbw and ease my mind. Instead Im just buying a damn new bottling set every 6 months or so
 
You can just make the same thing as a bottling bucket out of an SS kettle and valve if you want higher quality.
 
I don't understand the frustration with people (myself included) mentioning bottling guns. The thread says "premium" in the title. To me, standard bottling buckets and wands, even if made out of stainless, are not premium. They don't address oxygen exposure during transfer, during bottling or the trub from bottle conditioning that you have to avoid while pouring. Force carbonation in kegs and then pressurized transfer via bottling gun does address this. That to me is "premium", not a stainless bottling bucket with triclover spigot.
 
cilestiok said:
I don't understand the frustration with people (myself included) mentioning bottling guns. The thread says "premium" in the title. To me, standard bottling buckets and wands, even if made out of stainless, are not premium. They don't address oxygen exposure during transfer, during bottling or the trub from bottle conditioning that you have to avoid while pouring. Force carbonation in kegs and then pressurized transfer via bottling gun does address this. That to me is "premium", not a stainless bottling bucket with triclover spigot.
Click to expand...

Don't think anyone is frustrated. Just confused with answers that don't consider the parameters of the original question. I'm fully aware of beer guns and other bottling solutions using kegging equipment. That's why I stated in the very first line of the original post that I'm not looking for solutions that involve kegging equipment. You wanna post beer guns, then go ahead and post beer guns. The purpose of the thread was to see if there were any other "low tech" solutions utilizing higher quality materials than a $2.99 platic spigot and bottling wand. Not to have someone suggest common solutions that are readily accessable from a 5 minute Google search.

As far as the title, yeah, in hindsight I wish I could go back and change it. But I can't so it is what it is - a poorly worded title that gets cleared up in the first post.
 
orangehero said:
Why are you set on using a plastic bucket and plastic spigot? Just get a stainless pot and stainless spigot.
Click to expand...

normonster said:
You can just make the same thing as a bottling bucket out of an SS kettle and valve if you want higher quality.
Click to expand...

You know, this is probably the best suggestion yet. Thanks! Just bottle from the SS kettle and ball valve that I already have! Fit on a smaller hose barb to the valve that fits the hose size I use for my bottling wand. Use a longer hose since I'll need to make a 90 degree bend. Or maybe I can even find a 90 degree SS elbow in the right size that will screw into my ball valve. I may very well try this with my current batch in primary. To those of you who are interested, I will report back on how it works. To bubble or not to bubble, that is the question!!!
 
If you are going to use your kettle, I would recommend you also have a 3 piece ball valve, and you take it apart regularly. I have seen what builds up in my kettle valve, and I have read threads of others as well.

I would highly recommend you get a small stainless kettle, get a coupler sanitary welded in, then use a 3 piece ball valve that you religiously clean.

There are true sanitary valves out there, but the ones I have seen are only tri clamp, and very expensive, but they can be cleaned and sanitized using CIP. A 3 piece ball valve taken apart and cleaned regularly might be able to approximate that.
 
gnef said:
If you are going to use your kettle, I would recommend you also have a 3 piece ball valve, and you take it apart regularly. I have seen what builds up in my kettle valve, and I have read threads of others as well.

I would highly recommend you get a small stainless kettle, get a coupler sanitary welded in, then use a 3 piece ball valve that you religiously clean.

There are true sanitary valves out there, but the ones I have seen are only tri clamp, and very expensive, but they can be cleaned and sanitized using CIP. A 3 piece ball valve taken apart and cleaned regularly might be able to approximate that.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Good advice worthy of being stressed. If I do this, I will be using a 9 gal kettle with a welded coupler and a 3 piece ball valve that I disassemble and clean after every boil. Yes, no matter how much hot water and cleaner I run through it, I'm always surprised that it's still nasty when I take it apart!
 
TxBigHops said:
First off, I don't keg. I only bottle, by choice. No plans to change that anytime real soon. But what's the deal with those chincy plastic spigots and bottling wands??? In almost every other area of homebrewing there are high quality options for those willing to spend a little more money. Why not for bottling?

The problem is, I get a small air bubble at the beginning of every single bottle that I fill. It's either coming in through the spigot, the bottling wand, or the hose connecting the two. Everything looks snug, there are no leaks, and after that initial bubble the fill seems to be bubble-free. I don't mind replacing all these pieces, but why can't I do so with something of a higher quality? I've searched a ton of equipment sellers, and they all sell what appear to be the same thing. If anyone out there can point me to some that are of a higher quality, please do so and I will be greatly appreciative.
Click to expand...

There really isn't a high tech solution to your problem since filling a bottle with beer is very low tech. A bubble being present indicates another problem other than the equipment.

Which bottle filling wand are you using? What length of tubing do you use to connect the wand to the spigot? What is the inside diameter of the tubing? One-sixteenth of an inch to large of ID will allow air to be introduced. Is the lid on your bottling bucket vented?

This is the wand I use.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/spring-tip-bottle-filler

I connect it to the bottling bucket spigot with three inches of five-sixteenths ID tubing. The vent is open on the bucket lid. I position the first bottle, pushing the spring loaded tip open, then open the spigot on the bottling bucket. The air in the wand is pushed out, and remains filled with beer throughout the bottling.

It is possible the bubble you see is CO2 being released from solution, and getting trapped below the bucket spigot.
 
I've bottled a ton of beer and wine over the last 20+ years, and never had a "bubble" in the bottling wand.

I'm still using the el cheapo bottling bucket with the piece of tubing and the spring loaded bottling wand, at least for all of my wines (and I make more wine than beer usually).

One thing that may help you is to go ahead and keep the spigot open all the time, and then press the bottling wand down into a sanitized glass until the beer flows. Once it's completely filled with beer, it can't get an air bubble. If you're getting air bubbles, then the bottling wand tip isn't doing its job.

A cheap solution would be to try another bottling wand first. There is nothing wrong with the bucket/spigot/wand solution, not at all.
 
I think the OP might be seeing a little bubble at the junction of the spigot and the tubing or in the wand. I would be confident in saying that it is not air, unless you have a stream of bubbles, but just a bubble of co2.

I don't bottle much anymore but like the inexpensive plastic equipment. It serves me well and I can spend that money on more ingredients. A heavy stainless steel pot and 3 piece ball valve seems like so much overkill for something that gets used for an hour (for me when I am really on a roll) twice a month. or about 24 hours per year.

I am also still using the bottling bucket, spigot and wand that I bought when I started brewing 4 1/4 years ago.

I would also hazard a guess that you cannot find premium (low tech) bottling equipment because there is not a big enough market to encourage the manufacture of said items.
 
2477-13.jpg


Here is a premium, gravity fed, bottle filler.

Maybe a bit more than you might want to spend at $1800.00
 
Thanks all, I appreciate everyone continuing to weigh in on this. I will try to respond to the most recent questions and comments. First, I'm attaching a couple of photos of the equipment I'm using. Earlier this year I had my wife video record me filling bottles, but couldn't get good enough resolution to see the bubble.

flars, my wand is similar, but not identical to yours. The spring loaded pin at the bottom of mine is plastic, where yours looks to be metal. I'm not sure of the measurement of my tubing, but it fits extremely tight on the second tier of the spigot. Takes some real effort to get it off. It's not as tight of a fit on the wand, but I push it on about three inches, and I have tried putting some keg lube on the top of the wand to act as a barrier to air getting in from that part of the connection.

Yooper, yes I keep the spigot valve open the entire time that I am bottling. The issue is not with the tip of the wand. The bubble starts up at the top, right when I push down the tip into a new bottle. I think its coming in from the spigot, and I'm on my third one right now. That's why I was hoping to be directed to a better one. It's got to be either the spigot or the hose connection to the top of the wand.

kh54s10, how is using a SS pot and 3 piece valve that I already own overkill if it solves the problem?

Wayne1, ... nevermind. Very funny.

20151029_231919.jpg


20151029_230315.jpg
 
I'm thinking you're noticing inherent bubbles in the beer itself, there's no getting away from it unless you de-gas it prior to filling the bottles
 
I errored, a poor memory. After seeing your pictures I took a close look at the wand I'm using. It is made by E.C. Kraus, the tubing is three-eighths inch inside diameter. The tubing needs to be heated and stretched to fit the end of the wand. This makes a near smooth inside fit, no trap or constriction to hold air or gunk.
Link to photo: http://www.eckraus.com/plastic-bottle-filler-3-8.html

The spigot I use also looks like the E.C. Kraus model: http://www.eckraus.com/barbed-container-faucet.html
 
I'd say maybe ferment in a SS conical and just bottle off of that? Only trouble is you'd have to switch to carb. tabs or stir the solution in. So maybe not a good solution. I wonder though if light stirring is worse than racking? I'd bet about equal. Although is light stirring enough to equalize sugar distribution?
 
You could actually use a beer gun to fill bottles without having a kegging system. I'm not sure how this would qualify as premium, but it could be done. You would still have to batch prime in some kind of bottling bucket with a spigot and use gravity. If you wanted to flush with CO2, you'd need a tank and regulator. Otherwise it would be used like a trigger operated bottle filler wand. Not recommending, just saying it could be used without a kegging system.
 
Your spigot, tubing and wand are all different than mine. Mine are very old, certainly more than 10 years old- but sturdy and working well.

Here's my spigot:
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/easy-on-off-spigot-1-2-id.html

and my bottling wand:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fermenters-favorites-bottle-filler

My spigot "locks" open, with the top flipping down, and never gets a bubble in it once I start it by filling it completely with beer (the first bottle will get bubbles, so I start in a glass until the beer flows).

I don't know if that is the issue with yours.
 
flars said:
I errored, a poor memory. After seeing your pictures I took a close look at the wand I'm using. It is made by E.C. Kraus, the tubing is three-eighths inch inside diameter. The tubing needs to be heated and stretched to fit the end of the wand. This makes a near smooth inside fit, no trap or constriction to hold air or gunk.
Link to photo: http://www.eckraus.com/plastic-bottle-filler-3-8.html

The spigot I use also looks like the E.C. Kraus model: http://www.eckraus.com/barbed-container-faucet.html
Click to expand...

Yooper said:
Your spigot, tubing and wand are all different than mine. Mine are very old, certainly more than 10 years old- but sturdy and working well.

Here's my spigot:
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/easy-on-off-spigot-1-2-id.html

and my bottling wand:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fermenters-favorites-bottle-filler

My spigot "locks" open, with the top flipping down, and never gets a bubble in it once I start it by filling it completely with beer (the first bottle will get bubbles, so I start in a glass until the beer flows).

I don't know if that is the issue with yours.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Apparently I'm a horrible communicator, because these two posts are exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread, and it only took 30 posts to get here! Suggestions for equipment to replace what I'm using now that might be of a higher quality. Compared to these two spigots, mine looks like a toy!

My only remaining question before I buy one (or both) of these is, what is at the back of these spigots? The one I have now has threads, I think 3/4" diamenter, that I screw on my pvc elbow dip tube that picks up nearly every drop of beer in my bucket. So do these spigots also have threads on the back side for a dip tube, and do you know the size? What are you two using as dip tubes with these spigots?

Also Yooper, your spigot mentions that is uses 1/2" (ID?) hose. Does that mean that your wand also fits into half inch hose? That would make it considerably larger in diameter than any other bottling wand that I have seen.
 
TxBigHops said:
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Apparently I'm a horrible communicator, because these two posts are exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread, and it only took 30 posts to get here! Suggestions for equipment to replace what I'm using now that might be of a higher quality. Compared to these two spigots, mine looks like a toy!

My only remaining question before I buy one (or both) of these is, what is at the back of these spigots? The one I have now has threads, I think 3/4" diamenter, that I screw on my pvc elbow dip tube that picks up nearly every drop of beer in my bucket. So do these spigots also have threads on the back side for a dip tube, and do you know the size? What are you two using as dip tubes with these spigots?

Also Yooper, your spigot mentions that is uses 1/2" (ID?) hose. Does that mean that your wand also fits into half inch hose? That would make it considerably larger in diameter than any other bottling wand that I have seen.
Click to expand...

I'll get my calipers and measure the outside diameter of the threads which extend into the bottling bucket a little later this afternoon. I don't use a pick up tube inside the bucket. When I have three-quarters of the bottles filled, I tilt the bucket. Only leaves a four ounce taste in the bucket doing the tilt.

I use a second nylon gasket, same as the outside one, inside the bucket. Seals well without distorting the side of the bucket. Order two spigots to get the extra washer and have a spare spigot on hand.
 
flars said:
I'll get my calipers and measure the outside diameter of the threads which extend into the bottling bucket a little later this afternoon. I don't use a pick up tube inside the bucket. When I have three-quarters of the bottles filled, I tilt the bucket. Only leaves a four ounce taste in the bucket doing the tilt.

I use a second nylon gasket, same as the outside one, inside the bucket. Seals well without distorting the side of the bucket. Order two spigots to get the extra washer and have a spare spigot on hand.
Click to expand...

So it only ships with one gasket? That seems odd. I can probably use the gaskets that I have for the one I'm currently using.

Also, have you seen this one: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...-favorite-bottling-spigot-for-bottling-bucket
It looks very similar (maybe the exact same?) at half the price. And I just read the reviews for the one you're using. Quite a few people have experienced some breakage / quality issues. I'm assuming this hasn't happened to you. Do you have any quality concerns on yours?

Arrrggg... I've gone from no choices to too many! Ha!
 

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