Is my smack pack still viable?

[mac_1103]

So one guy is talking about resurrecting one very old and certianly almost dead smack pack and the other guy is talking about maintaining his yeast bank and these two guys think they're arguing about the same thing? Did I miss anything?

 

[beren]

Did I miss anything?

it's all the same thing? I just made starters for 4 yeast packs that were best by Aug-Oct 2022. Turned out great, lots of yeast to harvest once decanted. The first one I made a 2nd 1l starter to test and it took off within hours so it was pretty viable, I'd say. I did do 1c of 1.020 wort to start then added 1l of 1.040 or so of wort to each pack, gives them a gentler wake up from the back of the fridge...

 

[mac_1103]

I just made starters for 4 yeast backs that were best by Aug-Oct 2022

So out of curiosity, does "just" mean last week, last month, or back in March?

 

[beren]

in the last 2 weeks I made 4 starters, decanted, doing another 4 starters starting today (with fresh packs)

 

[mac_1103]

I was wondering specifically about the expired packs. IOW, just how expired were those?

 

[beren]

starters for 4 yeast packs that were best by Aug-Oct 2022.

3 were 9 months expired and one was 7 months. They were kept in the fridge.

 

[mac_1103]

thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

in the last 2 weeks I made 4 starters, decanted, doing another 4 starters starting today (with fresh packs)

Are those starters on stir plates? That would be a much better/more efficient way to propagate the yeast. They need Oxygen.

 

[beren]

It is a plate, but last week I learned of this bit:
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2020/12/09/shaken-not-stirred-the-stir-plate-myth-buster/
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311550#msg311550

 

[beren]

Also some great info about different strains and pitching rates

 

[IslandLizard]

It is a plate, but last week I learned of this bit:

So are you making S-n-S starters now?
4 at a time, using large jugs with 1 liter wort in each?

 

[beren]

No I’m using a stir plate but I learned that a shaken starter can be just as good

 

[VikeMan]

It is a plate, but last week I learned of this bit:
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2020/12/09/shaken-not-stirred-the-stir-plate-myth-buster/
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311550#msg311550

I find it interesting that the title of the blog article is "Shaken, not Stirred: The Stir Plate Myth Buster." But there is not a single piece of quanitative data to indicate that anything has been "busted," in terms of the "new" method (which wasn't really new, BTW) resulting in better beers.

I've said this before, in various ways (about other topics)... the fact that someone has tried a new process and acceptable beer was the result does not imply a best practice. It could be, but it doesn't follow naturally.

That said, I'm all for the "shaken not stirred" folks doing what they want to do.

 

[beren]

I think it’s more that the myth is “shaken is nowhere near as good as a starter” but if you shake vigorously and get a lot of foam your starters makes your beer just as fast as a star plate. You’re right there’s no numbers posted but if every beer starts visible and vigorous fermentation quickly, you’re doing something correctly. I’m actually surprised more people don’t say they use an oxygen wand for the starter. I don’t even use one for the wort. I’m pour from a glass carboy 3 foot down into the fermenter, let it splash and foam.

 

[day_trippr]

I’m actually surprised more people don’t say they use an oxygen wand for the starter.

[Raises hand] I do.
I have the Williams .5 micron wand, and a 20 cubic foot O2 bottle with a flow meter, might as well use it for a jump start on the starter

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I’m actually surprised more people don’t say they use an oxygen wand for the starter.

[Raises hand too].
Similar to @day_trippr, just using a "fancier" wand.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

[I'll raise my hand too]. I have the same thing as day_trippr, except I used the little red oxygen tanks you can buy at Home Depot. For starters and wort.

 

[SaisonMan]

UPDATE: I made an 1800ml starter 24 hours ago, and there is zero activity. Every time I shake it, there is absolutely no foam. Smells like wort, not like yeast and beer. I know it's relatively early, but I've never had no response from a starter after one day. I'm pessimistic. The question is, should I be? I'm having technical issues trying to add a photo, but trust me, it's a dark, lifeless flask that I think is cackling at me. Any thoughts?

 

[IslandLizard]

UPDATE: I made an 1800ml starter 24 hours ago, and there is zero activity. Every time I shake it, there is absolutely no foam. Smells like wort, not like yeast and beer. I know it's relatively early, but I've never had no response from a starter after one day. I'm pessimistic. The question is, should I be? I'm having technical issues trying to add a photo, but trust me, it's a dark, lifeless flask that I think is cackling at me. Any thoughts?

Give it another day or 2.

BTW, how do you "shake" an (erlenmeyer) flask? Especially an almost full 2 liter one? I can't even swirl one when it's that full.

 

[SaisonMan]

Give it another day or 2.

BTW, how do you "shake" an (erlenmeyer) flask? Especially an almost full 2 liter one? I can't even swirl one when it's that full.

Yeah, it's more of a swirl. And a very careful swirl at that.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you happen to have gallon (3.5 or 4 liter) "wine" jug with a screw lid, or a well fitting stopper? That makes a decent s-n-s vessel.
Shake it to create lots of foam.
You can't do that with an erlenmeyer flask, and shouldn't, it's not safe, much too fragile.

 

[SaisonMan]

Do you happen to have gallon (3.5 or 4 liter) "wine" jug with a screw lid, or a well fitting stopper? That makes a decent s-n-s vessel.
Shake it to create lots of foam.
You can't do that with an erlenmeyer flask, and shouldn't, it's not safe, much too fragile.

I don't. Would a glass growler fit the bill?

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't. Would a glass growler fit the bill?

Yeah, got a gallon one? Or perhaps even better, two 1/2 gallon ones?

Make sure to always release the stopper or lid somewhat after shaking, so there won't be any pressure built up when the yeast gets active. Or "tent" the opening with aluminum foil.

Keep good sanitation, you don't want to grow bugs.

 

[SaisonMan]

Yeah, got a gallon one? Or perhaps even better, two 1/2 gallon ones?

Make sure to always release the stopper or lid somewhat after shaking, so there won't be any pressure built up when the yeast gets active. Or "tent" the opening with aluminum foil.

Keep good sanitation, you don't want to grow bugs.

Ah, it looks like I only have one half-gallon growler. Back to swirling, I guess.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ah, it looks like I only have one half-gallon growler. Back to swirling, I guess.

I'd pour half of the starter into that growler, splitting the starter. That will make swirling the flask much more efficient with much less risk of blow off once it takes off.
Before transferring, homogenize the starter in the flask by giving it a good stir, using a long sanitized spoon, or stirring stick, or so.

S-n-s the growler as if it owes you money with the screw cap on it. But let air get in there (while CO2 off gases) between shakes using the loosely crimped aluminum foil cap. Use good sanitation with all that.

 

[SaisonMan]

I'd pour half of the starter into that growler, splitting the starter. That will make swirling the flask much more efficient with much less risk of blow off once it takes off.
Before transferring, homogenize the starter in the flask by giving it a good stir, using a long sanitized spoon, or stirring stick, or so.

S-n-s the growler as if it owes you money with the screw cap on it. But let air get in there (while CO2 off gases) between shakes using the loosely crimped aluminum foil cap. Use good sanitation with all that.

I'll give it a shot!

 

[beren]

That seems like a pretty big starter for an older pack of yeast. I would have gone smaller and weaker for a few days then bumped it up. It might take a few days for activity to be noticeable.

 

[SaisonMan]

I'd pour half of the starter into that growler, splitting the starter. That will make swirling the flask much more efficient with much less risk of blow off once it takes off.
Before transferring, homogenize the starter in the flask by giving it a good stir, using a long sanitized spoon, or stirring stick, or so.

S-n-s the growler as if it owes you money with the screw cap on it. But let air get in there (while CO2 off gases) between shakes using the loosely crimped aluminum foil cap. Use good sanitation with all that.

How often should I shake with the lid on?

 

[petersongod]

There's a chance your Wyeast 2278 yeast pack is still viable, even though it's past the best-by date. Make a starter to check its activity. If it ferments successfully, the yeast is likely good to use.

 

[IslandLizard]

How often should I shake with the lid on?

Since it's s-n-s, whenever you can, say 4-6 times a day. More won't hurt, but there are diminishing returns at some point. When shaking you want to create as much foam as you can. Each (tiny) foam bubble holds 21% Oxygen, surrounded by a film of suspended yeast cells.

Just don't forget to release the lid after each shaking.