Is it just me or are bottled conditioned Homebrew better than kegged?

[CascadesBrewer]

Bottle priming...2 of those carbonation tabs in a 16 ounce bottle and i'm good to go!

What is your process for transferring to kegs? What styles of beers are you brewing? I would not be surprised if it had to do with differences in oxidation between the two.

These days I keg most of my beers. I have noticed oxidation issues with bottling hoppy beers, but I tend to bottle my Saisons and Trappist styles so I can push up the carbonation level. That makes me wonder if the carbonation level between your kegs and bottles could be different.

 

[Sammy86]

What is your process for transferring to kegs? What styles of beers are you brewing? I would not be surprised if it had to do with differences in oxidation between the two.

I do a closed transfer as possible with my Big Mouth bubbler as seen here:

Like I said in the OP I have just been enjoying the bottled brews more than kegged.

 

[deuc224]

If you keg, and give your beer as much time to condition in the keg as you have to give it to condition in the bottle, you probably won’t see much difference. Patience. Even for experienced brewers it can be the missing ingredient.

Exactly what I was gonna reply. My hefes young really has a yeast bite or a tingyness i dont know how to describe, fter 2 weeks on gas, its so mellow and perfect.

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Exactly what I was gonna reply. My hefes young really has a yeast bite or a tingyness i dont know how to describe, fter 2 weeks on gas, its so mellow and perfect.

+1 on that. I keg, force carbonate in keg, then sometimes bottle from that. Insert that elusive patience factor and some of those bottled ones have improved with age.

 

[PberBob]

It would be nice to get that last 1/2 oz out of the bottle…

It would be extremely interesting to do a series of side by side comparisons to see how they age with time. My ales change pretty dramatically over the course of 12-16 weeks. Flavors, aromas, body, head, - everything but color.

Do kegs have a similar ageing process?

 

[Sammy86]

Do kegs have a similar ageing process?

Absolutely do! Most of my kegged beer really hits it stride weeks 4-6. Sometimes I have plenty left and other times I don't get to enjoy the goodness.

 

[T Murph]

My brewing partner and I| brewed 10 gallons of an imperial stout, 12% abv roughly. We bottled his 5 gallons, kegged mine. 2 months later we both realized there was no discernable difference in them except that he tended to drink more from my keg than from his bottles.

Lol and there you have it. Anecdotally speaking the bottled beer fans are really fans of others kegged beers. I'm starting to put two and two together here.

 

[soccerdad]

I'm lazy. I prefer kegging. But I also like having 6 to 10 bottles of certain styles so sometimes I will keg the whole batch and sometimes I will bottle a gallon or so of the batch. I treat them differently. Bottles are naturally carbed and conditioned in the bottle. The draft beer is artificially carbed and (I feel) has less chance of being oxidized. My palate isn't sophisticated enough to tell an enormous difference .. small differences maybe.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I do a closed transfer as possible with my Big Mouth bubbler as seen here:

That tends to support my initial thoughts that it was likely that your bottled beers are oxidized more than your kegged beers. Your comments "the flavor is deeper and richer" it was people often tie to minor oxidation character. There is this thread on using a secondary (What does a secondary fermenter do?) where in a side by side tasting, often the beer transferred to a secondary was preferred, even when it visually showed typical signs of oxidation.

Oxidation has a lot of negative connotation associated with it, but it is not always a negative and can also be a preference. Barrel aged beers likely have significant oxidation, and aged bottled beers do as well. My opinion is generally that there are a few styles that minor oxidation ruins, a lot of styles where minor oxidation is very hard to detect, and some styles were minor oxidation lends an often expected character.

 

[JimRausch]

Can't say with authority because in 10 years of brewing, and approaching my 200th batch, I've never kegged. Yes, everything is in bottles. Store those bottles in styrofoam lined boxes in my garage- maybe 25 boxes that contain up to 72 bottles each.. I probably still have a stray bottle from 2011. Just cracked open a Winter Spiced Wee Heavy from 2018 which was surprisingly good. Yeah, I'm odd.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Is kegged beer less oxidised than bottled?

I'd say sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends on methods and equipment. I had a bottled beer judged by a brewery QA person and the notes said there was no oxidation. I don't work that hard at avoiding oxidation. I'm careful obviously. Fermentation in the bottle will reduce oxygen. Kegging has to be done well cos any oxygen introduced is going to stick around, I think.

So I'm a bit confused about this tbh.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

There are styles that will benefit from one method or the other. That said, you can perfectly do any style with any method of packaging

 

[Pablo 54]

1. Kegging for me on all of my lagers since I attempt to keep as much O2 out as possible. I bottled 1 lager in my life and 8 weeks later, I had a nice, crystal clear beer that tasted like cough syrup.
2. Keg condition some cream ales and hefes. Nice to be able to plug in a keg that is pretty much all carbed up "naturally". I've not had any discernable issues with staling.
3. Bottle some cream ales and hefes. This is my preferred way of packaging my hefe's since I open ferment that style.

How I prime the bottles and keg (for conditioned) makes a difference. I use either DME or sugar. The DME leaves a slight, malty "punch" whereas the sugar seems to be undetectable. That is me though.

 

[Beermeister32]

I both keg and bottle. Kegs are great for a full 16 oz crystal clear pint. Bottles are great for putting up different batches you only drink once in a while.

One thing to add about bottles is always having to pour off until you hit the dregs. Always sad as a beer lover to lose that last ounce in the bottle. Also you will frequently get stray yeast in the beer even if you decant properly.

Kegs are great - always a crystal clear pour!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I 99% keg. Nice thing about bottling though is it lasts longer than kegs. I have bottles of RIS, Barley wine, Belgian strong and such that are from 2016 and up, when that keg is long gone.

 

[bwible]

Brulosophy did this experiment:
“I struggle with the idea the carbonation from bottle conditioning produces a perceptibly different character than force carbonation– CO2 is CO2 regardless of the source. With increased curiosity, I shelved my hatred of the bottling process for the sake of learning and decided it was time to put this to the test!”
https://brulosophy.com/2016/09/26/c...n-vs-bottle-conditioning-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As mentioned above, natural vs force carbonation is an old debate in the UK thanks to CAMRA.

In turn that means you do get opportunities to try the same commercial beer in different formats - even eg cask-conditioned lager (which can be great, although no doubt the LODO mob would disagree). I've had different beers that were best in each of can, cask, keg and bottle. It just depends on the style, and talking about this kind of stuff without reference to style is meaningless.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Brulosophy did this experiment:

I wonder if they did anything to purge CO2 from the bottles. The process they used was to transfer the beer into a keg first and fill bottles with the flat beer that has priming sugar. They then filled the bottles with a beergun.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread so if I repeat anyone's ideas, I'm sorry.

Reasons why bottle conditioned portions of a batch can taste better:

1. Kegging process introduces some oxygen. It's not that the bottling process doesn't, but the refermentation scavenges the oxygen in the bottle.
2. The new yeast activity acts a little like krausening and can help cleanup some fermentation induced flaws like diacetyl and acetaldehyde.
3. Conditioning time. You may be leaving the bottles alone for 2 or more weeks allowing for a more full carbonation and particle settling while burst carbing the keg quickly and to some unreliable level.

 

[Beermeister32]

One thing about bottling - early on, I would bottle using standard 12 ounce bottles. I’ve changed.

Today when I bottle, use the larger 16.9 ounce/500 ml bottles exclusively, either flip top bomber style brown, or the Weihenstephaner type bottles which I find are a little thicker than others.

When you pour a full pint, a 12 ounce bottle does not fill a standard pint glass and you are more inclined to get dregs in your glass, a real bummer.

A 16.9 ounce bottle is darned near perfect. It fills a 16 ounce glass nicely and leaves the remaining ounce or so of murk at the bottom of the bottle, not in your glass.

Prost!

 

[soccerdad]

I can't explain why this is, but 2 taste precedents rule my life.
More unexplainable quirks than precedents.
1) with commercial beers I always (at least 99% of the time) examine the draft list first. If there is nothing there I like or want to try, I'll order a bottle.
2) with.my own beer I am highly critical of either draft pours or bottle pours ... But invariably when it is just right - carbed right, conditioned right, cleared right, tastes great - the keg burps or it's the last bottle.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Reasons why bottle conditioned portions of a batch can taste better:

The bubbles are different, in the same way as champagne has different sized bubbles to Coke although not as extreme as that difference. Given time, bubble size may equalise, but over the typical drinking period, natural carbonation will typically have smaller bubbles than force carbonation and that leads to a different delivery of flavour compounds to your mouth.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

I don't find any difference between keg and bottle beer if both are conditioned properly including especially a correct level of carbonation. I mostly keg. I have bottled. Sometimes I miscalculate and I have never had a bottle bomb but I have had some that were inconveniently overcarbonated and very messy to open. If a keg is overcarbed, easy enough to fix. Just relieve the pressure daily until you get a good pour, then hook up the gas and properly regulate it. I also like being able to pull just a small glass or a big glass or a giant stein, instead of having to drink in 12oz or 16oz or 22oz increments.

I suppose in theory the priming sugar could change a beer's balance, adding alcohol and reducing body, but I can't tell the difference. It's just not enough sugar.

I prefer kegging but not because the beer tastes any different. It is so I can easily correct dissolved CO2 levels, dispense freely by any amount, and because it is easier (for me) and less messy. (for me) I can also see advantages in bottling. Portability, share-ability. Keeping 10 different recipes in one fridge. No need for tanks and regulators and stuff, The best way forward for those who are able to put together a kegging setup is of course to keg some or most, and bottle some, too. Properly done, I doubt if many guys can tell the difference in taste, though. YMMV.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

The bubbles are different, in the same way as champagne has different sized bubbles to Coke although not as extreme as that difference. Given time, bubble size may equalise, but over the typical drinking period, natural carbonation will typically have smaller bubbles than force carbonation and that leads to a different delivery of flavour compounds to your mouth.

That is interesting, and I do not doubt that you are correct. But I don't notice the difference with my perhaps not so sophisticated or discriminating palate. However, it is another detail to agonize over, and for many of us that is half the fun of brewing, I think.

 

[TestTickle]

Properly done, I doubt if many guys can tell the difference in taste, though. YMMV.

I tend to agree with this statement as well as a couple earlier regarding patience.

When I first started kegging, I also felt that maybe my bottled beer was slightly better than my kegged beer. The problem was that I was listening too much to keggers who were "grain to glass" in two weeks. I soon learned that even in kegs, the beer benefits from some time to condition.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

The difference between cask and keg is pretty obvious. That's partly the level of carbonation, but also the difference in the carbonation. Cask has a smooth carbonation, part of its appeal. I find bottled is closer to that than keg.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

I tend to agree with this statement as well as a couple earlier regarding patience.

When I first started kegging, I also felt that maybe my bottled beer was slightly better than my kegged beer. The problem was that I was listening too much to keggers who were "grain to glass" in two weeks. I soon learned that even in kegs, the beer benefits from some time to condition.

Absolutely! I have 4 kegs in rotation now, and a keg lasts me a month or a bit less. So it is conditioning for about 3 months, then it goes in the kegerator to chill when the on-tap keg is down to about 1/3 judged by the feel of the keg when lifting it. I have lately started releasing the pressure after a couple days chilling, then again the next day and then the next if there is still a lot of pressure. When it is time to change kegs, it is usually in the ballpark. I tend to overcarb my kegs and maybe I should be more systematic about that, but I do it so if there is a leak, it takes longer to flatten the beer and for expansion and contraction to bring air into the keg. Also to make sure that when the keg is chilled there is still positive pressure in the keg.

Anyway when I first started kegging of course I began with just one keg. Three weeks after brew day it was on tap. Good, maybe a few rough edges. Just some faintly troubling off tastes, but still good. When I added a couple of kegs to the rotation I was at first concerned about storing it too long at room temperature but the results were very pleasing. This is subjective, of course, but that is my impression, that a couple of extra months on the floor improve a beer whether it is in keg or bottle, even if it isn't a super duper deluxe imperial.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread so if I repeat anyone's ideas, I'm sorry.

Reasons why bottle conditioned portions of a batch can taste better:

1. Kegging process introduces some oxygen. It's not that the bottling process doesn't, but the refermentation scavenges the oxygen in the bottle.
2. The new yeast activity acts a little like krausening and can help cleanup some fermentation induced flaws like diacetyl and acetaldehyde.
3. Conditioning time. You may be leaving the bottles alone for 2 or more weeks allowing for a more full carbonation and particle settling while burst carbing the keg quickly and to some unreliable level.

On your second point, you may have something there. It is logical, anyway. I never see any krausen in my bottles, but that doesn't mean that no fermentation related cleanup is occurring. I don't taste the difference but that doesn't mean it isn't there. A more discriminating critic than me might notice the difference, I don't know, but I won't discount the possibility.

As for introducing oxygen when kegging, not necessarily. I fully purge my kegs by filling to the top with star san solution, then forcing it out with CO2, resulting in a completely purged keg with a slight positive pressure for safe storage until kegging day. Then for the beer transfer I use a closed loop. Beer flows from fermenter into the keg. CO2 flows from keg into fermenter. Pressure stays equalized, gravity does all the work, no air gets in anywhere. And it isn't any great hardship to do it that way.

There is really no reason why a keg that doesn't leak can't be stored / conditioned for months. I overcarb a bit, but it is easy to correct once the keg is chilled to serving temp and waiting its turn to be tapped. OTOH, if priming is miscalculated and bottles are overcarbed, you are just stuck with it that way. You can't gradually bleed off gas over several days like you can with a keg. I have made some real geysers and it is sad to see beer lost. Then again it is possible to under carb. Not a major tragedy as long as there is some CO2, but if you want it perfect, you could be out of luck. A few days with a couple extra pounds of CO2 pressure on the keg and you can make it right. Careful calculation should give you perfect bottle priming, but sometimes stuff happens.

Which all reminds me, my latest bottles have been over three weeks conditioning. I should put one in the fridge for a few days and see how it is coming along.

 

[Beermeister32]

Check out the picture of the neck of that bottle I posted. You can see a bit of a bottle/conditioning fermentation ring. Good for cleaning up O2 I think, that Pilsner was fantastic. I need to brew some more.

 

[BrewChem]

It depends on the astrological centering surrounding your carbonation process… lower ABV ales are best keg carbonated during the two weeks surrounding the lunar apogee with a waning crescent being optimum if the IBUs run above 53. Higher ABV ales should be bottled with their priming sugar when the moon reaches perigee. Lagers are a different story completely and are not dependent solely on the lunar cycles. For Lager carbonation one must also observe oceanic cycles … keg on the neap ride and bottle condition on the first spring tide following the vernal equinox for best results.