Yes it's called 'oxyclean', 'brush', 'starsan'. Glass and SS are not getting infected and plastic will be fine with good sanitation.Now the question is, if you were to brew a high fg porter and then bottle that using the same equipment would those bottles remain shelf stable at room temps for a prolonged time. Kudos on 1.001 though...
Yes. I rotate through my "always available" brews which normally include Saison, Red Ale, Vanilla Porter and Wit. Occasionally we throw in a Kolsch, Sour whatever, Milk Stout, or some other style. Been brewing on and off for over 20 years. Been doing Saison's with "real" Saison yeasts for at least 10 years. I have NEVER had a bottle bomb, unexplained keg overcarb, or a batch go flavor/growth south (definitely had a few that I wasn't happy with, but it was obviously the recipe or process/equipment malfunction). We also sometimes do multiple or double batch brew days where friends/neighbors bring their fermenters and ingredients over. I don't ever remember hearing of them having an issue in the last 5 to 7 years either. Lucky? maybe. But I have always practiced proper hygiene. Losing the money on a batch from being sloppy is bad enough, losing 6 to 8 hours of brew day efforts would piss me off. When you play with ANY yeast, brett's, pedio's, lacto's, or ingredients that yeast and bacteria feed on, be sanitary!Now the question is, if you were to brew a high fg porter and then bottle that using the same equipment would those bottles remain shelf stable at room temps for a prolonged time. Kudos on 1.001 though...
Don't forget... Clean your refrigerators/kegerators inside and out, work area, brew rig, and work surfaces occasionally. Lysol is a wonderful thing before starting a brew day but I never hear anyone mention it. Also sani-spray all those nasty bags, ziplocks and bottles of hops, yeast, and whatever else that you held with drippy wort hands, before you put them back in the fridge. They are just asking for all kinds of crap to grow on them. I have no problem dipping my hands in the sanitizer bucket throughout brewing, kegging, yeast starting or bottling.Yes it's called 'oxyclean', 'brush', 'starsan'. Glass and SS are not getting infected and plastic will be fine with good sanitation.
I agree, 3711 is scrumtrilescent, but what's 566?My 3711/566 blend of earth destroying saison contaminants went into the keg at 1.001 FG from a 1.058 OG, cleared, and carbonated. Sampled it tonight... As always, absolutely scrumpulously wonderfully yummy. If that's what disaster and evil tastes like, bring on the Armageddon
Is diastaticus susceptible to the antibiotic properties of hops like lacto?I agree, 3711 is scrumtrilescent, but what's 566?
BTW, if Diastaticus is a wild strain commonly found in nature, why aren't whole cone hops a vector for infection via dry-hopping? I know this doesn't happen in practice, but why are hops not covered with wild yeasts like just about all other vegetation? Is it the kilning? Is the handling post-kilning so well isolated from the raw hop processing areas that reintroduction of spores is prevented? Seems like a hop farm would be permeated by whatever wild spores raw hops contain.
566 is another one of those masochistic earth ending bacteria's from Russia or North Korea that will contaminate every brew within 500 miles, It even has the warning on itI agree, 3711 is scrumtrilescent, but what's 566?
Thanks!566 is another one of those masochistic earth ending bacteria's from Russia or North Korea that will contaminate every brew within 500 miles, It even has the warning on it
Blending it with 3711 makes for some awesome flavors. You can also culture Dupont dregs and grow them up to use alone or mixed with 3711. I've been washing and saving both blends for quite a while. I'm sure I've contaminated most of the west coast by now.
Just to be clear - you seem to view diastaticus as some kind of separate yeast species. It's not, it's just a label for regular yeast that contains one particular gene (STA1 glucoamylase) that's particularly good at breaking down complex carbohydrates. Think of it like the label "redhead" or "blue-eyed" in humans rather than a species name like "gorilla" or "chimpanzee".I'm not sure why this is so controversial. 3711 is diastaticus. Diastaticus contamination has caused recalls and a lawsuit. There seem to be reasonable grounds to treat diastaticus as a "wild" yeast like brettanomyces rather than a "clean" yeast.
My thoughts exactly. He's a good guy but bombastic is not an inaccurate descriptor!@TANSTAAFB Tasting diastaticus is a funny claim to make as there is no defining flavor of the identified strains. Saccharomyces as a genus is highly variable and diastaticus is a member of the Sacch. cerevisiae species and just variants of it.
If he can taste diastaticus then he needs to start charging breweries as a one-mouth quality analysis laboratory and we can throw away our molecular biology equipment!
@Northern Brewer I have 099 and 590 but not the other strains you mentioned. I can throw them into the mix when I get the next round of tests.
I'll hoist the BS flag on that, unless some bio guru can prove it throws detectable and tastable chemistry not similar to that of any other sacc c. The result of an "active" STA1 gene (or maybe STA2 or STA3) would result in a decrease of body, head, and maybe a little less malty. All of those vary anyway and can be caused by many things other than the very rare diastaticus muching down on more than we wanted them too. Having the gene does not mean it will show itself. Lots of brunettes have the redhead gene but you would never know it unless they throw a ginger offspring.The president of the local brew Club (also a biologist) tasted a saison in which I had tossed dregs of some good funky beers from Jester King, and said he could taste the diastaticus. Is that even possible?!
Oh..OK, 'science brewer' that claims to not be paranoid. Brett and diasticus don't require an autoclave to die. Fact. Simple sanitation is all that is required. Regardless, I'll bet the majority of homebrew is infected to a degree that doesn't matter. A reliable way to avoid bottle bombs is to buy a keg or be a very patient bottler which few people are.@Azura I agree good cleaning practices will generally keep contaminations in the background. But that doesn't mean you don't have contaminants in your process, you are just doing well to keep their populations in the noise. Homebrewing is allowed to be more forgiving than commercial setups for reasons you can review in this thread.
It's not paranoia to discuss organisms that can cause undesired effects in fermentations, especially not when those effects can potentially hurt someone. Just because you have had only impeccable brews and your process is better than an auto-clave doesn't mean the information shared is not valuable to someone else.
No one has advised not to use brett, diastaticus, or lactic acid bacteria. I use them all along with a bunch of other yeast. Like any tool in the trade, it's important for people to know their functions and their flaws so they can be best utilized. It's science, not paranoia fella.
Hops don't necessarily get heated. Many of them are just air-dried. For Commercial purposes, the maximum temperature they can be exposed to during the drying process is 140 FI know this doesn't happen in practice, but why are hops not covered with wild yeasts like just about all other vegetation? Is it the kilning? Is the handling post-kilning so well isolated from the raw hop processing areas that reintroduction of spores is prevented? Seems like a hop farm would be permeated by whatever wild spores raw hops contain.
644 is just a sacc yeast. No Brett in the mix.Now i'm getting a case of the pointys. Did the 644 come through with any sour or was it just generally more funky? I like brett's but i'm just not patient enough. I've heard that 644 is kind of a fake and fast replacement.
3711 has been available for many years. Many homebrewers have used it and sanitized their 'clean' fermenters with nothing more than Oxiclean and Starsan. 3711 has not created a homebrew over attenuation pandemic for many thousands of users.@Azura, every development in sophistication the homebrew community achieves the better brewers we all become. Reducing this thread to being alarmist is essentially saying "I'm taking time out of my life to assert that your discussion is meaningless to me." That doesn't contribute a thing to the conversation and dismisses the participants' interest.