Irish moss and trub settling

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frankvw

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Irish moss and Wirlflock are known for removing unwanted proteins from the wort, by clumping them together so they can settle down to the bottom of the kettle more easily, resulting in a cleaner wort going into the fermenter and improved beer quality.

However, I have noted that while Irish Moss does visibly promote clumping in my wort kettle, I don't see a marked improvement in trub settling. In fact, it looks like the protein clumps help to keep the spent hops in suspension which at the end of the boil makes for a much trubbier wort.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I doing anything wrong? Or do I misunderstand the way Carrageenan is supposed to work?
 

thehaze

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I use Protafloc with 10 minutes left in the boil. Once the boil is over, I quickly ( 10 to 15 minutes, depending on the season - well water ) cool down the wort to around 158F / 70C. Usually, at this step I add my whirlpool hops ( for those " hoppy " beers ) and create a whirlpool with my paddle. I let it rest for 5-10 minutes and come back and repeat the whirlpool with my paddle. I then let it sit for 10-15 minutes. I come back and transfer the wort to the fermenter.

The wort is clear, with no visible trub in sight and that means a very thin trub cake in my fermenter. The trub left in the kettle is nicely (almost ) compacted at the bottom of my Grainfather. When the pump begins to suck trub, I simply stop the transfer there. But I can easily see the effects of the Protafloc, together with whirlpooling and the lower temperature of the wort.
 

Smellyglove

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Carrageenan is mainly for those who can dump trub out of a conical. To get most use of it with a non-conical, you need to let it sit for a good while after the boil. I let my beers sit for about two hours. The difference in trub into FV is big comparing to just half an hour or one hour. I see this in the krausen and on the bottom of the FV after the beer has been kegged/bottled.

Carrageenan starts to drop out at 60C in the BK. but it takes time for everything to settle, hop particles too. If you use carrageenan and just pour the wort into the fermentor (of which you can't dump trub from) you're missing out on most of the effect as you'll still be pouring lot of trub into the fermentror, and it will be there for the whole ride.

Lot's of people believe they can do this and get very little trub since they've added a teaspoon of tablet of C into the boil, but it's incorrect if you can't dump trub out of the FV (it will settle nicely though, but in the FV), or wait long enough in the BK.
 
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ncbrewer

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Lot's of people believe they can do this and get very little trub since they've added a teaspoon of tablet of C into the boil, but it's incorrect if you can't dump trub out of the FV (it will settle nicely though, but in the FV), or wait long enough in the BK.
It seems to me that this drops out in the fermenter. Even if you can't dump the trub, it still stays on the bottom when you rack. In fact, I noticed when I increased the Irish Moss from 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp the appearance of the trub was very different after racking. It looked like about 1/4" pebbles all over the bottom.
 

Smellyglove

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It seems to me that this drops out in the fermenter. Even if you can't dump the trub, it still stays on the bottom when you rack. In fact, I noticed when I increased the Irish Moss from 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp the appearance of the trub was very different after racking. It looked like about 1/4" pebbles all over the bottom.
That was my point in my previous post. It drops out effectively in the FV, but if you want "no trub" into the FV, you need to let it sit in the BK before racking into FV.

The more Carrageenan you use the more proteins will fall to the bottom of the BK. But, there is a but. The more you use the more will drop, but it will not compact within a reasonable time. The more you use the more trub at the bottom of the kettle you'll get, but more will also be "floating" at the bottom. Giving you a a thicker layer of "trub" in the BK which is not very dense either.
 

RM-MN

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Irish moss and Wirlflock are known for removing unwanted proteins from the wort, by clumping them together so they can settle down to the bottom of the kettle more easily, resulting in a cleaner wort going into the fermenter and improved beer quality.

However, I have noted that while Irish Moss does visibly promote clumping in my wort kettle, I don't see a marked improvement in trub settling. In fact, it looks like the protein clumps help to keep the spent hops in suspension which at the end of the boil makes for a much trubbier wort.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I doing anything wrong? Or do I misunderstand the way Carrageenan is supposed to work?
There is no proof that cleaner wort into the fermenter gets you improved beer quality. Some research suggest the opposite, that the yeast like something in the trub. YMMV
 
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frankvw

frankvw

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There is no proof that cleaner wort into the fermenter gets you improved beer quality. Some research suggest the opposite, that the yeast like something in the trub.
In home brewing circles opinions vary. However, I've spoken with several commercial craft brewers in my area (luckily there are a few very good ones) and they all agree that kettle finings work and promote beer clarity, stability and cleanliness of flavour profile. Of course these guys control other parts of process much tighter than I can achieve in my garage, so it's possible that in home brewing the effects of kettle finings get lost in the "noise" of other variables.

The mantra of home brewing! :)
 

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