IPA burnout

[bleme]

I've brewed more IPA's this year than ever I think and enjoyed both of them.

 

[Miraculix]

I like ipas in which you actually can still taste that the main ingredient is malt.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I like ipas in which you actually can still taste that the main ingredient is malt.

I'm thinking there is more hops than malt in some of the IPAs I've had

 

[Shwagger]

IPA is short for hipster, I've heard

 

[zoned_post_meridiem]

I always thought I liked IPAs best (and I still do like them!), but after a while realized that I really mostly just liked hops. High-aroma, hoppy, low-IBU APAs like Odell's Rupture or Lagunitas' Born Yesterday are my sweet spot: a ton of hop flavor without too much bitterness.

 

[Miraculix]

Hmm..... wouldn't it be fun to design an "IPA" that is actually made up almost entirely out of table sugar, maybe a bit molasses with 120 ibus and excessive dry hopping?

Just for the sake of not lying on the ingredients list, a tiny amount of barley flour ould be added. Looks cloudy and the hipsters will kill for it!

Let's call it... 5 o'clock Hop Tea.

 

[user 246304]

First off - styles don't really matter, a rose by any other name and all that. But if you need to put it in a style, it's way too strong for a bitter or even a best bitter, and it's not really bitter enough for any of the English styles (depending on alpha content I make it 26 IBU, so BU:GU of 0.5?). Sounds a little bit too sweet for an English beer, USians generally seem to think English beers are sweeter than they are. And cask beers are rarely over 4.5%, things like ESB seem to be far more common in the US than in the UK.

You could just about call it a Scottish Export (leaving aside what I think of BJCP guidelines for Scotland ) but that hop bill really points to something on the Continent. It would need a change of yeast really, but you're not far off things like patersbier and marzen.

Northern, from a British perspective, how would you call a best bitter's BU:GU at 88% and a strong bitter's at 82.7% (emphasizing a bit more malt, bit more dextrin, bit more residual sweetness in the strong bitter, as well)?

To the subject: Count me in. I cannot stand what I perceive to be imbalanced beers. Silver, on your pilsner/IPA comparison, totally agree with you. A cleaner, simpler (and low gravity) beer will expose the brewer's art, and any and every flaw in the selection of materials and making of the beer. Why I love Coniston's Bluebird Bitter. What a pint. My memory could be off but I recall a humble little beer, yet resonating with a total harmony of flavors.

 

[Devin]

It is funny how irked people get by the IPA craze. I love IPAs. The more hops, the better. The more "unbalanced", the better. Sure, I like other beers also - but I will take a good, high IBU IPA over others most of the time.

People that complain about how "strong" and "out of balance" and "turpentineish" IPA's are remind of friends from out east that come and visit me here in New Mexico and complain about how intense and spicy our food is here. It's not my fault that your delicate senses can't handle the intensity. Quitchyerbitchin.

 

[GHBWNY]

Drinking only one style incessantly is like working out only one set of muscles in your body. It's always a good thing to change it up if only to find out what you really enjoy, you enjoy that much more. Afterall, who wants to be a skinny twerp with no chest or biceps but huge legs?

 

[user 246304]

It is funny how irked people get by the IPA craze. I love IPAs. The more hops, the better. The more "unbalanced", the better. Sure, I like other beers also - but I will take a good, high IBU IPA over others most of the time.

People that complain about how "strong" and "out of balance" and "turpentineish" IPA's are remind of friends from out east that come and visit me here in New Mexico and complain about how intense and spicy our food is here. It's not my fault that your delicate senses can't handle the intensity. Quitchyerbitchin.

"Balance" is in the eyes of the beholder. In other words, for you, cool.

Oh, coming from Cali and cooking a ton of SW, bring it on.

 

[Devin]

"Balance" is in the eyes of the beholder. In other words, for you, cool.

Oh, coming from Cali and cooking a ton of SW, bring it on.

That is why I said people from out east. And that is a generalization, which I know I shouldn't do, but more often than not I get complaints from my midwestern and east living friends. People from out west seem to mostly love the hot stuff. Nothing better than a big bowl of Carne Adovada and a bottle of Project Dank.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yesterday I had a landlord ale and I think I figured out what I do not like about British ales in general, at least about the ones I had here in the South of UK.

They are all painfully sweet to my German Pilsener influenced taste and I think I really really do not like the crystal malt character that they all show so highly accentuated. I heard you say that the ales from the north should be way dryer than the southern counterparts. What would you recommend as two or three (best would be easy to get here in the South) typical northern English ales?

Tim Taylor beers are always difficult in cask, as the yeast works slowly and they need much more cellar conditioning than almost any other mainstream beer. Almost no pub gives it long enough in cask, and there's definitely been pints when the dominant flavour has been conditioning sugar. It's great when the cellarwork has been up to scratch but it's consistently the most underconditioned beer I come across. And it's a shame, because it's usually in pubs that are trying to make a bit of an effort on the cask front (it's the most expensive trad bitter in the wholesale market, so they're taking a bit of a hit to put it on the bar). I've not had the bottles in a while, can't imagine they're as good as well-kept cask but they're probably better than a lot of what you get in pubs.

And condition is vital for trad brown bitter - even the good ones only have a pretty short period of a few hours mebbe where they're truly great, they soon decline into "OK" and then into "why do people drink this stuff?".

It's tempting to send you to the Black Country to get a proper pint of Batham's Best, which is just glorious and a good example of the dry style of trad brown beer. There's a very slight hint of toffee sweetness to start with, but then it's all dry and bitter.

But you're not going to get Batham's locally - they keep distribution very tight so you pretty much have to go up to Stourbridge/Dudley/Wolverhampton to find it, the odd cask makes it to GBBF but that's about all. In terms of easy to find stuff, probably Black Sheep.

But I tend to think more in terms of the Manchester tradition which has its roots in pre-1981 Boddington's - paler than trad bitter, and much more dry and bitter. Modern Boddies just isn't the same (but again it's maybe worth trying just to get some idea, just realise that it's a pale shadow of what it was), things like Marble's Pint and Lees' MPA are pretty good attempts to bring together that tradition with a nod to modernity. I've seen MPA in supermarkets down south, they've started doing Pint in cans (after a bit of fuss about them being 500ml cans...). But it's merging into the pale n hoppy thing - you could argue that Boddies is the true ancestor of the APA, but there does seem to be a distinct Manc spin on it, they tend to have more pilsner and sugar in the grist (so lighter and drier), and are just that bit more bitter compared to many southern equivalents. I guess Track Sonoma is one of the benchmarks there. I know we're getting rather away from trad brown beers, but the whole Manc/Boddies thing is a notable regional style in its own right.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Not quite sure what you're asking about BU:GUs? In the .8s looks fine for a best, possibly a smidge high for a strong - the more bitter strong ones call themselves IPAs.

"Balance" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Not really. With beer it's pretty easy, there's four ingredients and you should be able to perceive all four of them in a balanced beer. The beholder may prefer the taste of an unbalanced beer, but that preference doesn't make the beer balanced.

Of course, a cuisine based on strong sauces is only necessary when there's a history of poor-quality and half-rotten meat - they didn't need to invent curry in Aberdeenshire or on Romney Marsh, because the local meat is so great on its own....

 

[Shwagger]

Blimey!

 

[user 246304]

Not quite sure what you're asking about BU:GUs? In the .8s looks fine for a best, possibly a smidge high for a strong - the more bitter strong ones call themselves IPAs.



Not really. With beer it's pretty easy, there's four ingredients and you should be able to perceive all four of them in a balanced beer. The beholder may prefer the taste of an unbalanced beer, but that preference doesn't make the beer balanced.

Of course, a cuisine based on strong sauces is only necessary when there's a history of poor-quality and half-rotten meat - they didn't need to invent curry in Aberdeenshire or on Romney Marsh, because the local meat is so great on its own....

You'd commented on Mary's range of beers, using BU:GU and English bitters as a guideline. I was just asking if a ratio of 88 and 82.7 was a reasonable set for a best bitter and strong bitter, respectively. In other words, high 80's for a best, and low 80's, with the other "sweetish" elements I mentioned, for a strong.

On "balance," it was a bit of a riposte to Devin, who gave some slight to my use of the word. I'm really saying, to each his own, because quantifying taste - "a Parker 95 point Bordeaux is so much better than that lousy 89 point Burgundy!" - is useless, and I truly, truly loathe it. My cooking of haute cuisine was, for me, an act of love, and I'm serious. It's what drove me since I was 12 or so, to learn and master its traditions, and share, give it over. I got out because I couldn't do it any longer but more, because it deeply saddened me its cost meant not everyone could partake of it.

So, enough screwing around. Perhaps "fine" is a better word. "That's a fine pint" is all that matters in the, gullet, of the beholder.

Balance and cuisine. Yes. Just don't tell the French their haute cuisine isn't theirs, but rather Italian. "Balance" was brought to Henry II's court by an Italian lady by the name of Catherine de Medici.

Edit: Adding, I have made many beers I, friends and family, judges (first and only entry, so that doesn't go far, admittedly) have enjoyed. To toot my own horn, Matt Brynildson once told me, "you have the touch. You should keep at it." I've lost the feeling I have a touch for much anymore. Bereft of a lot left as flotsam behind. I have to find what remains and try to smile and the pleasure it gives myself, and others.

So I could keep on going by what I do. But I have to tell you, as I love English ales, I'd like to steal the body and soul of the English palate, and English approach. So brother I will tap your knowledge, and that of your compatriots.

 

[Miraculix]

Tim Taylor beers are always difficult in cask, as the yeast works slowly and they need much more cellar conditioning than almost any other mainstream beer. Almost no pub gives it long enough in cask, and there's definitely been pints when the dominant flavour has been conditioning sugar. It's great when the cellarwork has been up to scratch but it's consistently the most underconditioned beer I come across. And it's a shame, because it's usually in pubs that are trying to make a bit of an effort on the cask front (it's the most expensive trad bitter in the wholesale market, so they're taking a bit of a hit to put it on the bar). I've not had the bottles in a while, can't imagine they're as good as well-kept cask but they're probably better than a lot of what you get in pubs.

And condition is vital for trad brown bitter - even the good ones only have a pretty short period of a few hours mebbe where they're truly great, they soon decline into "OK" and then into "why do people drink this stuff?".

It's tempting to send you to the Black Country to get a proper pint of Batham's Best, which is just glorious and a good example of the dry style of trad brown beer. There's a very slight hint of toffee sweetness to start with, but then it's all dry and bitter.

But you're not going to get Batham's locally - they keep distribution very tight so you pretty much have to go up to Stourbridge/Dudley/Wolverhampton to find it, the odd cask makes it to GBBF but that's about all. In terms of easy to find stuff, probably Black Sheep.

But I tend to think more in terms of the Manchester tradition which has its roots in pre-1981 Boddington's - paler than trad bitter, and much more dry and bitter. Modern Boddies just isn't the same (but again it's maybe worth trying just to get some idea, just realise that it's a pale shadow of what it was), things like Marble's Pint and Lees' MPA are pretty good attempts to bring together that tradition with a nod to modernity. I've seen MPA in supermarkets down south, they've started doing Pint in cans (after a bit of fuss about them being 500ml cans...). But it's merging into the pale n hoppy thing - you could argue that Boddies is the true ancestor of the APA, but there does seem to be a distinct Manc spin on it, they tend to have more pilsner and sugar in the grist (so lighter and drier), and are just that bit more bitter compared to many southern equivalents. I guess Track Sonoma is one of the benchmarks there. I know we're getting rather away from trad brown beers, but the whole Manc/Boddies thing is a notable regional style in its own right.

Mate, honestly a great read. Thanks for all the Infos in there, much appreciated. I will be off for a long weekend in Germany now and after that I will try to get hold of one or two of the ones you have mentioned.

I never thought about the conditioning time when buying beer, except for ipas. My landlord was store bought and bottled, so I do not know whether it was good or not... Probably not. One day I will travel far north to see Schottland and maybe some pubs will cross my way during the travel

 

[bobeer]

Being technically correct is merely an artificial constraint. And if you feel compelled to make your beer conform to the technical demands of others, and seek their blessing before you can come to fully enjoy it yourself, it is also a sickness.

I think it's really just homebrew nerds being homebrew nerds. I'm guilty of it too but not because I'm looking to conform to the demands of others. It is my beer afterall...
After about 5-6 years of brewing I'm looking to up my game. I've always dug my beer if it turned out well but I'm now trying to nail styles and actually learn the art of brewing. I don't think there's anything wrong with either school of thought. We just talkin beer over here!

 

[GHBWNY]

Of course, a cuisine based on strong sauces is only necessary when there's a history of poor-quality and half-rotten meat - they didn't need to invent curry in Aberdeenshire or on Romney Marsh, because the local meat is so great on its own....

Not unlike Tabasco [brand] hot pepper sauce which was originally invented back in the days before refrigeration to disguise the taste of spoiled meat as it was putrifying. Once we start over-flavoring/over-hopping beer to disguise its true malty, yeasty essence, we've lost something.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Apart from a few individual experiences, I've never enjoyed IPAs. My brother brewed a batch called "pineapple express" from a kit, that was a really good beer, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head that didn't taste to me like new carpeting smells. Yeck. I live near a Lagunitas brewery in Chicago and they have a few good beers but most of their beers are, IMHO, overly hopped. I don't get the macho fascination with high alpha beers. It reminds me of those guys who sit around eating ghost pepper hot sauce that is clearly painfully hot, but they insist they enjoy it. Whatever floats ur boat I guess, Mr. Nippleclamps. I prefer estery, phenolic yeast character and a good, dry malty flavor.

 

[applescrap]

Edited post.

 

[MaryB]

I grew up drinking a locally made beer that was 6.5%... lol

Michael Jackson, mostly - but through a US filter, which has screwed them up even more.



Welcome to British beer! Although we'd quibble with the "easy drinking" bit, you need to be below 4.5% for that really....

 

[MHBT]

I hear you..same thing happening to me..i still love a few IPA's but I'm losing the taste for the most part..lately I been all about balanced beers..i think its more of a challenge to brew a really nice balanced beer anyway so it drives me to become a better brewer...The IPA trend was fun but I'm over it

 

[SoCal-Doug]

An actual "IPA" can be quite tasty. The 150 IBU paint remover that people are making, is a different story.

I can just imagine the brewers conversations... "hey Joe, this batch tastes like crap!" "No problem, throw another 20 pounds of cascade in it, and make up a cool name. Nobody will notice"

What's going to be fricken hilarious is when the extreme hop fad ends and brew pubs are going to have to make real beers with quality and balance to satisfy the customers. They will no longer be able to hide behind hops.

 

[Miraculix]

What would be an example for a classic ipa brewed like those from back in the days times when it was actually really brewed to last the long trip to India?

 

[grampamark]

What would be an example for a classic ipa brewed like those from back in the days times when it was actually really brewed to last the long trip to India?

I found this one in an article at byo.com. It's supposed to be an 1868 India Pale Ale. I guess 100 IBU isn't such a new idea after all.

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.067 FG = 1.015
IBU = 100+ SRM = 6 ABV = 7.1%

Ingredients
14 lbs. (6.4 kg) Maris Otter pale ale malt
51 AAU UK Goldings hops (90 min.) (10.25 oz./0.29 kg at 5% alpha acids)
3 oz. (85 g) UK Goldings hops (dry hop)
White Labs WLP017 (Whitbread Ale) or Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread Ale) or Safale S-04 yeast
2⁄3 cup corn sugar (if priming)

Step by Step
Mash grains with hot water (1.2 qts./lb.) at 150–152 °F (66–67 °C) for 1 hour. Run off and sparge to collect about 6 gallons (23 L) of wort. Bring to a boil and add the bittering hops, boil 90 minutes. Cool to 65–70 °F (18–21 °C) and pitch with yeast, preferably two packs prepared previously as two 1-qt. (1-L) starters. Ferment 5 days, rack to secondary and add the dry hops in a sanitized weighted muslin bag. After 1–2 weeks rack to keg or bottle and prime or carbonate in the usual way.

*This is a lot of hops, which will likely result in loss of wort in the residue when racked. I have used Goldings for this to follow the original as closely as possible. However, it is more practical to replace these with 29 AAU Progress hops (3.6 oz./102 g at 8% alpha acids).

 

[HamiltonBrian]

I get the idea of burnout. I am actually losing interest in "chasing" the new styles. Don't really care about NEIPAs, milkshake ipas, etc. I kind of think the apex of the bitter IPA was Arrogant Bastard. Since then...meh. The last really hopped beers I made, IPAs of course, was a couple of years ago. Since then I have focused on trying to go back to more balanced and low ABV brews, with an emphasis on bitters and some lagers.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

It is funny how irked people get by the IPA craze. I love IPAs. The more hops, the better. The more "unbalanced", the better. Sure, I like other beers also - but I will take a good, high IBU IPA over others most of the time.

People that complain about how "strong" and "out of balance" and "turpentineish" IPA's are remind of friends from out east that come and visit me here in New Mexico and complain about how intense and spicy our food is here. It's not my fault that your delicate senses can't handle the intensity. Quitchyerbitchin.

Cool story, bro.

Now can you at least envision why someone with a more refined palate might feel frustrated going to restaurant after restaurant after restaurant and finding that their only food options are:
1. any of 12 dishes smothered in habaneros,
2. soggy french fries, and
3. maybe a salad?

The problem isn't that hoppy beers exist (except when they're maliciously mislabeled, IE overproof IPAs sold as "barleywines") it's that they're so absurdly overrepresented in terms of actual commercial offerings and popular consciousness. There's no reason a bar shouldn't have a good IPA or two on, and there's no excuse for a bar with 6 India Whatever Whatevers out of 10 beer offerings and nothing on darker than an amber, not even Guinness.

 

[day_trippr]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY[/ame]

Cheers! (nursing a deeeeelicious Julius clone )

 

[schematix]

I love IPAs so much I’m developing a new style I call Pilsner IPA. It’s basically a Pilsner malt bill, lager yeast, and German noble hops without restraint. Lots of late hops and a good steep. It’s fantastic!

 

[madscientist451]

IPA sales remain strong, at least they were for 2016, where IPA sales achieved huge growth and easily are way more popular than any other craft style. Note that there isn't a separate category for Imperial high ABV IPAs. Drinkers like to get wasted, one of the big reasons high ABV brews are popular.
It will be interesting to see the 2017 numbers, but I don't see the general public burning out on IPAs anytime soon.

https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/2016-top-selling-craft-beer-styles-us